Help with Counter attacking 4-2-3-1 tactic

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siisin

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I'm currently playing as Everton (fm 2015) with just one signed player lucas romero.
I'm attempting to play 4-2-3-1 wide Fluid and Counter stratergy

GK
WB(A) CD(D) CD(C) WB(A)
CM(S) DLP(D)
W(S) AM(S) IF(S)
Poacher

Team Instructions
- Stick to position
- close down less
- stay on feet
- be more disciplined
- lower tempo
- play narrower
- exploit middle

I'm not scoring any goals and conceding a lot from crosses and long shots
players in the AM strata don't really create much mostly run into opposing
team players fall and lose the ball.
I have these players on support because they help to defend especially the opposing fullbacks

I only want to use one play maker in my setup and i've read in so many threads that a deep-lying play maker
suits the counter attacking approach. I've also read that poacher works well with a deep-lying player maker

My poacher gets very low match ratings (eto) below 6.4 the same for my AM
I watch the match but i can't tell what i'm doing wrong and i'm confused from reading so
may opposing views about counter attacking football

Some argue counter attacking should use a fast tempo, whereas others say slow methodical game
picking the moment to launch an attack

I need help setting up my team right without modifying my formation and my dlp and poacher roles
I also want to play counter attacking football
thank you
 
Hi, I had the same problem last week, and the solution is in the the settings in the rules of the game. You just had to select and tick the square below. best regards,
 
In my opinion, counter attacking football has to be played at a high tempo. The reason for this being that the whole purpose of a counter attacking style is to regain possession while your opponent is in the attacking phase and forming your own attacks from there.
It may seem overly simplistic but I'm going to go over why this works, and from there hopefully help you discover what you should be looking for. A team in attack is going to play differently from in defence. There will be players ahead of the ball, looking to continue the attack. For some teams this will even extend to pushing fullbacks forward. In addition to this, in an effort to stretch the opposition defensive lines, team in attack will generally look to position themselves wider; in essence, teams in the attacking phase want to make the pitch as big as possible.
This, however, leads to the problem created by counter attacks, such as the type you are trying to implement. With players out of position, it is possible for your team to exploit the open spaces and disorganisation in the transition phase. For this, you really have to be playing at a higher tempo, otherwise the opposition will have time to get back into their defensive shape, killing the counter attack completely.

With regards to your player roles, I can see a potential flaw with your attack, as your have three supporting players behind a poacher. Personally, I find that with this sort of configuration, you end up with a striker who doesn't contribute at all to the build up play, finding himself isolated without any penetrating runs from his attacking midfielders. Usually I would play this sort of tactic with either an IF(A) with an emphasis on getting forward or an AM(A), although since you have already mentioned your fragility from opposition wing play this perhaps isn't a great idea since IFs tend to be pretty much useless in defence. With an AM(A) you should find him getting into more advanced positions more often (think Mkhitaryan at Shakhtar Donetsk), therefore providing your striker with someone to link up with. Additionally, I would play with an AF(A) instead of a poacher just for the reasons above, with the isolation and what not.
Ultimately though, it's up to you. Keep watching the games, make notes of what's going well and what's going badly. As simple as they may be, it will really help you understand what's going on and more importantly, what you can do to make it better.

Best of luck
 
cZeur has hit the nail on the head. You must keep tempo high. I also don't like to 'close down less' unless im winning in the 80th minute. where by u combine it with drop deeper and launch direct counter attacks. high tempo also goes will with close down more and 'stay on feet'
 
also with wb , a ball playing defender with good passing will encourage more direct wing play when on the break
 
I think you should disregard the counter attack completly. Team instructions serve to tell your team how you want them to play. Counter team mentality mean more cautious style of play, so you should set your team instructions to suit that. Counter attacks aren't forced, they happen naturally when there is less then x players between you and the oppositions goal. If there is an opportunity to counter, your team will do it, regardless of your TI. When there is no counter attack opportunity, you should play more cautiously as the mentality suggests. With lower or much lower tempo. Your defenders will naturally pass the ball more direct, and your forwards shorter, so you will probably look to play through defence most of the match. Therefore, I wouldn't choose shorter or more direct passing, but retain possession and work ball into box could perhaps be of use. And if you really want to draw them onto you and create a counter attack opportunity, you should drop deeper or much deeper. Also fluid team shape goes against your stick to position and more disciplined TI's, so you should perhaps remove those and switch to structured, especially if you are defending deeper and trying to deny space behind you.
 
Another thing I should add, is that you probably want to use a strong striker that will hold up the ball for your wingers or midfielders. Or perhaps a smaller striker, but agile and creative. Whatever you choose, your wingers should preferably cut inside and have good finishing if you expect them to score. If opting for inside forwards, work into box TI might be a bad choice.

Also, a good counter attacking formation requires a DM or two to releive pressure on defenders, so 4231 wide really isn't a good choice.
 
I had a really good counter attacking tactic in my old thread, go to page seven and check out the tactic I used against Manchester Unitedhttp://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-manager-2015-tactics/181157-southampton-fc-tactical-exercise-fm15.html
 
Igneos79 said:
Another thing I should add, is that you probably want to use a strong striker that will hold up the ball for your wingers or midfielders. Or perhaps a smaller striker, but agile and creative. Whatever you choose, your wingers should preferably cut inside and have good finishing if you expect them to score.
Click to expand...

Brendan Rodgers has been known to say that you should ideally have three and a half goal scorers in your team. So by that logic, wingers and forward-thinking central midfielders are paramount to the system.

Igneos79 said:
Also, a good counter attacking formation requires a DM or two to releive pressure on defenders, so 4231 wide really isn't a good choice.
Click to expand...


It really depends on where you want to engage the opposition. While, say, the Chelsea team of 2005 would just sit deep with Makalele in that DM role destroying opposition attacks before launching forward with the blistering pace they had, the fashionable approach these days is to have the forward lines engaging the opposition really high up the pitch. In this case, an extra body in an advanced midfield role is crucial for stifling the other team's ability to play out from the back. Just look at Dortmund or Bayer Leveruksen for an example of this.
 
attack roles on all attacking midfielders + striker
attack roles on wingbacks.
att instruction drop deeper so they will drop.
Use the flanks shout

counter mentalilty isnt necesarry with "drop deeper"
can have standard

of course higher tempo as well
more direct passing

maybe play out of defence so they just dont squander the opporutunity with a ****** long ball
 
cZeur said:
Brendan Rodgers has been known to say that you should ideally have three and a half goal scorers in your team. So by that logic, wingers and forward-thinking central midfielders are paramount to the system.

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It really depends on where you want to engage the opposition. While, say, the Chelsea team of 2005 would just sit deep with Makalele in that DM role destroying opposition attacks before launching forward with the blistering pace they had, the fashionable approach these days is to have the forward lines engaging the opposition really high up the pitch. In this case, an extra body in an advanced midfield role is crucial for stifling the other team's ability to play out from the back. Just look at Dortmund or Bayer Leveruksen for an example of this.
Click to expand...

Well, if you want to counter, you should drop deeper. The purpose of this is creating space behind your opponents and pulling them toward you, and then exploiting that space. Droping deeper means you defend in your own half, therefore you need a DM. Dortmund and Bayer aren't playing counter attack, it looks more agressive to me. Counter is a patient and safe approach.
 
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