How team options fit in with each other and common errors in design

[duca015]

My experience with this instruction vary. Depending on Your squad, You should choose type of play You want to play. It is not advisable to push up if You hav slow defenders. It is not advisable to play high tempo game if you have slow attackers. It has nothing to do, in my opinion, with conflicting orders to Your team.

I did mix up tactical instruction numerous time, I also use asymmetric formation a lot. This means You do not have defensive shape by default, so You do want to mix it up with player, or even team instruction to get result You want. High pressure/low tempo/counter attacking is possible to play, but it needs very long time to get Your team playing like You want them to. More team/player instruction, especially ones that are generally in conflict one with another WILL give You headache in start, first month or two certainly, but it does not mean it will not work in general.

Stand off option WILL NOT WORK if you have team that generally lacks anticipation and decision. It will make You more vulnerable to opposition attacks, no meter how good your set up seems to be. Wise versa, teams with low aggression, bravery, tackling and decision will not give you good results with hassle, due to logical conclusion that they will be bad in duels.

So instead to starting creation of Your tactics based on team instruction and how You wish to play in general, start paying attention to players at Your disposal instead.

Sometimes it is good thing to mix it up a bit.

For example, I had in my team fast front line, fast back line, but midfielders could have little more pace. My back line was very low on areal ability. Normally, because of their characteristics, you would prefer them to push up because of this. But, since my midfield is not as quick as I would like, if I become more aggressive, It would lead to formation breakdown, since my midfield is not quick enough to put a pressure and return to their position on time. So I would prefer to have my lines tight and to narrow the gaps. So this leads us to general conflict to team instruction, according to You, that I should not mix up push up and stand off instruction. And I can tell You, from my experience, it works best with control strategy, wide play, short passing, high tempo game. It just needs time to team get grasp on style of play.

Furthermore, I believe that any combination CAN be successful, depending on Your squad and your opponent. If You want to defend deep, You need physically and aerial strong defenders. If You want to play counter, You need to create space for counters, and while physical qualities of Your squad does help here, best option here is to look for technically and mentally strong players. It is enough to have one fast player for fast counter game.

 

[germainelol]

Because attacking is all about high tempo and asking your players to play faster to catch opposition by surprise. You can lower it, but it wont work well.

But Barca's philosophy is ALL about attacking, yet you say that Barca should ONLY be played at a lower tempo...

 

[Igneos79]

Ah, but the key word is LOWER. It's just a lower tempo than default, not low overall.

How exactly would you train your squad into 20 different tempo's? It looks to me there are only 4 available.

But Barca's philosophy is ALL about attacking, yet you say that Barca should ONLY be played at a lower tempo...

It's not. Or better put, it wasn't, and then it was, and now it's not again.

 

[duca015]

It's not. Or better put, it wasn't, and then it was, and now it's not again.

Altough I agree with you that Barca is not playing particulary attacking mentality, they do tend to press high up the pitch. Problem is how to achive this without putting attacking mentality.

I beleive this could be achived by combination of team and player isntruction, as well as positioning on the field. For me, Messi is not placed as F9, but as Treq in attacking midfield position. This force oponent to change up defensively and this also create space for your INF to go in. Slow metodical passing game in whic only two players (Messy and Iniesta) would be allowed to send more risky passes would be also good fit to achieve wanted situation. To acquire right balance betweene suicidal and well organized pressing, you need less agressive roles in midfield tree, and extremly agresive on all other positions, since these tree are more of cover gays in Barcelona then pressing gays, especialy Chavi and Buscets.

 

[WJ]

How exactly would you train your squad into 20 different tempo's? It looks to me there are only 4 available.

Ah, but that's where you're wrong. There are 5 different tempo settings for each mentality level. Much Lower, Lower, Default, Higher and Much Higher. So there are many settings.

Lower tempo on Defend isn't the same as Lower Tempo on Attack. It's just lower than default. Same with all the other settings. Closing down, D-Line etc are all linked to mentality.

 

[Igneos79]

Ah, but that's where you're wrong. There are 5 different tempo settings for each mentality level. Much Lower, Lower, Default, Higher and Much Higher. So there are many settings.

Lower tempo on Defend isn't the same as Lower Tempo on Attack. It's just lower than default. Same with all the other settings. Closing down, D-Line etc are all linked to mentality.

Well, if that's true then I'm completly wrong. It's just that it seemed logical, that when you defend, you play a lower tempo and play narrower. If playing higher tempo and wider will only move the invisible slider slightly, then it doesn't even matter. But I'm having good results with my own suggestion, and struggle when I do how you suggest. How do you explain that?

 

[WJ]

Well, if that's true then I'm completly wrong. It's just that it seemed logical, that when you defend, you play a lower tempo and play narrower. If playing higher tempo and wider will only move the invisible slider slightly, then it doesn't even matter. But I'm having good results with my own suggestion, and struggle when I do how you suggest. How do you explain that?

Up until a few minutes ago you didn't even know about this, so I'm not sure how you're already struggling.

I'm not suggesting this is how it is. It isn't a theory. This IS how it is in FM14. Many ways can work and I'm not saying your way can't work. I'm just telling how how it is in FM14 and that you shouldn't just tell people they must not use an instruction if you have no proper reasoning for doing so.

 

[Igneos79]

Altough I agree with you that Barca is not playing particulary attacking mentality, they do tend to press high up the pitch. Problem is how to achive this without putting attacking mentality.

I beleive this could be achived by combination of team and player isntruction, as well as positioning on the field. For me, Messi is not placed as F9, but as Treq in attacking midfield position. This force oponent to change up defensively and this also create space for your INF to go in. Slow metodical passing game in whic only two players (Messy and Iniesta) would be allowed to send more risky passes would be also good fit to achieve wanted situation. To acquire right balance betweene suicidal and well organized pressing, you need less agressive roles in midfield tree, and extremly agresive on all other positions, since these tree are more of cover gays in Barcelona then pressing gays, especialy Chavi and Buscets.

Actually If you want to play out of defence how barca does, you should really drop deep. It goes hand in hand. Especially if you want to open up space for your forwards to roam and run at defence. Barca played a counter attacking style which is exactly how they lined up on the pitch, slightly deeper.

 

[duca015]

Actualy, it is not a requirement, altough it does seem logical - this I have tried.

If you drop Messi on AMc, it does drow opposition central defenders to push up, which create space for INF to come in. With metodical play, you keep possesion and minimize risk of bad passes, and with defence pused up, you limiting opponent passing options. I would add also in instructions that pressing should be controled (for example, never press keeper or cbs of opponent) in order to keep defensive shape.

I do not know, I did not actually tried all of this, becouse playing with extremly strong teams bores me, but it might be good option to drop deeper your defenders, since your midfield is already packed and there is not too much holes in it with diamond in middle and for side players, but in this case, it would be sound option to push up your wingbacks so they should be closer to action.

 

[germainelol]

Actually If you want to play out of defence how barca does, you should really drop deep. It goes hand in hand. Especially if you want to open up space for your forwards to roam and run at defence. Barca played a counter attacking style which is exactly how they lined up on the pitch, slightly deeper.

And then when you're in possession your defence are still deep, which is not Barca and not possession. To keep possession high up the pitch and press high, you want to lose the ball around their penalty box, as far away from your half as possible.

 

[duca015]

Actually, Barca play possesion game near center of field. This is becouse they want to drow opponent from their penalty area and to create space between defence and goalkepper. This is if you are speeking about today Barca.

General idea of play between first Guardiola year and his lest is completly diferent. Between real scoring treath that Eto was and two genious on wide in Ronaldinio and Messi, and latter in Henrry and Messi, you wanted to create 1-1 situation for them. Now, with Messi in middle and main goalscorers on wide, whole philosopy on how You attack changes. In that first years they did kept ball near oposition penalty area, but now, they tend to drop deeper in half in order to create space.

 

[Igneos79]

Up until a few minutes ago you didn't even know about this, so I'm not sure how you're already struggling.

I'm not suggesting this is how it is. It isn't a theory. This IS how it is in FM14. Many ways can work and I'm not saying your way can't work. I'm just telling how how it is in FM14 and that you shouldn't just tell people they must not use an instruction if you have no proper reasoning for doing so.

I guess you're right.

 

[Igneos79]

rewrote the whole thing

 

[rocheyb]

I'm up to season 2024/25 and I've won the Premier League twice, the Europa League once, lost the Champions League Final once, won 5 FA Cups and 6 consecutive Capital One Cups, with Southampton - by which I mean I've been successful in FM14 though by no means totally dominant. My first trophy was the 2016 FA Cup and the first Prem title was 2018/19, so I took a bit of time to work out how to play this game, build my squad and to fully understand how to impose my tactics.

I operate three sets of tactics at a time, and generally change one of them per season in an attempt to improve and keep track with the changing personnel in my squad and how other top teams line up against us. But all of my systems are based on these Team Instructions:

- Pass Shorter
- Retain Possession
- Play Out of Defence
- Work Ball Into Box
- Float Crosses (I swap to Drill Crosses when I can see that it's not working, but generally it does)
- Exploit The Flanks
- Play Wider
- Hassle Opponents
- Get Stuck In

This is with the CONTROL and BALANCED settings on team fluidity. When I'm chasing a goal or trying to take advantage of the opposition being down to 10 men, I switch to ATTACKING and FLUID, turn off Retain Possession and activate the Higher Tempo and Be More Expressive options - and there are ways to alter these settings to protect a lead, too.

Higher tempo football is more prone to losing the ball in the final third, even with good players, but if your dominating possession it will put you in the final third more often so it can bring success. You need players with good Stamina to maintain it for a whole match plus a good understanding of how to break the opposition's lines and plenty of pace in attacking areas to exploit it properly.

Many of these instructions conflict with the content of the (recently edited) Opening Post, but they have won trophies for me. So I think the trick is to devise a tactical system that enables as many of your players - especially the better ones - to play in their preferred positions, operating in their best roles, while being encouraged to carry out their Preferred Moves, as possible. In short, understand the qualities of your players and then get them to do what they do best.

I give Player Instructions to get my full-backs (when I play them) to get up in support and provide crosses; my central midfielders to play More Direct Passes so they can switch the play quickly and accurately; wingers to get to the byline; forwards to work the channels etc. My particularly excellent Advanced Playmaker is encouraged to Dribble More from central midfield to create openings for himself and team-mates and draw fouls in dangerous free-kick positions.

Good and prolonged scouting will help you to identify players that will fit into your existing style or enable you to modify it as you want, while retraining younger players and investing in your youth academy will give you even greater control in shaping the squad to play your way. Youth players also provide welcome depth, if you're serious about developing them into long-term First Team players, which is certainly possible for the better prospects.

 

[duca015]

I agree with Rocheyb.

But sometimes, it is easier to get most of your best player if he is not playing on his prefered position.

For example, I have winger whos prefered position is AMR, and he plays fairly well there, but he is incosistent as **** there. And there is also problem of injuries. He is prime target of all my opponents, becouse he is fast, good dribler and creative player. So I could never get him to play constantly good. And there is also problem that he is shooting the ball all the time, altough he does not have any prefered move regarding this.

So I adopted and moved him to right midfielder wiht players infront of him, and he flourished. Basicly, I drow attention of defence to the other players in my squad, and created space, that good player as my winger is, can exploite it. And further more, with this change, I managed to get much more crosses from my winger (as I intented) and he still manages to get to 15 goals per season mark. Plus is also that he have better partnership with right back when he is on RM position, so my right side becomes real force.

Basicaly, in my opinion, name of game here in FM14 is creating space for your best player and keepeng them as fit as possible. It does help if you get them to play on their prefered position, but it is not requirement. So basicly, all you have to think about is who is your best player and how do you create space for him to be more involved in your game. The more he is involved, better you will be.

 

[iFortunatus]

you lot and your conspiracy theories (H)

 

[rocheyb]

I agree with Rocheyb.

But sometimes, it is easier to get most of your best player if he is not playing on his prefered position.

For example, I have winger whos prefered position is AMR, and he plays fairly well there, but he is incosistent as **** there. And there is also problem of injuries. He is prime target of all my opponents, becouse he is fast, good dribler and creative player. So I could never get him to play constantly good. And there is also problem that he is shooting the ball all the time, altough he does not have any prefered move regarding this.

So I adopted and moved him to right midfielder wiht players infront of him, and he flourished. Basicly, I drow attention of defence to the other players in my squad, and created space, that good player as my winger is, can exploite it. And further more, with this change, I managed to get much more crosses from my winger (as I intented) and he still manages to get to 15 goals per season mark. Plus is also that he have better partnership with right back when he is on RM position, so my right side becomes real force.

Basicaly, in my opinion, name of game here in FM14 is creating space for your best player and keepeng them as fit as possible. It does help if you get them to play on their prefered position, but it is not requirement. So basicly, all you have to think about is who is your best player and how do you create space for him to be more involved in your game. The more he is involved, better you will be.

Yes, I've experienced that with some players being better in positions other than their stated best positions. Adam Lallana and Jonjo Shelvey were both more productive for me as advanced right-wingers, although they were both originally listed as No.10s. But you'll only discover that by watching the matches and if the player is young enough then you can train them into that role, as I did with Shelvey and got several good seasons out of him.

Protecting certain players to keep them fit is also important, as Duca says. My star turn Italian playmaker rarely plays a full 90 minutes if we are winning comfortably by the hour or 75-minute mark. I give him a rest as often as I can and have a couple of younger players who can come on and create or score a late goal as they continue their development.