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Ideas for this tactic/ thoughts on my plan

Neeeko

Member
May 30, 2014
79
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0
I always get really excited and plan ahead before football manager comes out, however I must be doing something wrong because some often my tactics don't seem to be so effective. I play into a save and get nowhere then end up rage quitting. So, I'm asking some advise from you pros before starting football manager this year. I'll try write this as clear as I can and outline my vision to save your time asking any questions - Your help would be much appreaicated!
Aim of my tactic:

  • Play out from the back safley to avoid kicking the ball up the field far and loosing it.
  • The central mids have the job of 1: defending 2: supporting. Whilst playing it to the players higher up the pitch.
  • The right CM would be on support so that when the winger in front of him goes wide, he will move forward to fill the space inbetween the AP and winger.
  • Be more expressive when attacking.
  • I still need to decide if I should play fast tempo with short passes, balanced tempo with short passes, slow tempo with short passes or keep both balanced.
Team: Liverpool
Tactic: 4-2-3-1
Mentality: control
Shape: flexible

CF (attack)
IF (support) - AP (attack) - W (support)
CM (defend) - CM (support)
FB (auto) - CB (defend) - CB (defend) - FB (auto)
GK (defend)​
Team Instructions
- Prevent short GK distribution
- Slighty higher defensive line
- Play out of defence
- Pass into space
- Be more expressive

Note 1: I may add a few player instructions to certain players also, e.g. if they have good passing, ask them to make more risky passes
Note 2: I may change the CM (support) to a Box-to-Box.
Questions

  1. Overall, what do you think about this tacitc/instructions? what would you change? and what do you think may be an issue?
  2. Are there some team instructions you would add or remove?
  3. Are these some individual instructions you would add?
  4. Would it be useful to slow down the tempo or speed up?
  5. Would 'pass it shorter' be useful to add? or would I not need to as I've already instructed 'play out of defense'
  6. Do you think I'll get enough goal action?
  7. Is it good to keep team instructions minimal and add more individual player instructions? or the other way around?
  8. Does 'shorter passing' and 'high tempo' work well together? I was thinking of adding this instruction but I read shorter passing works well for a build up with slower tempo.
  9. Any other feedback/comments you want to give me? Is there some things I should think about also when using this tactic.
I don't want to change the formation, shape and mentality (apart from to attack). What I'm looking to adapt is mostly instructions for my team.
Sorry if I've made any stupid mistakes with this tacitc, i'm looking to learn and adapt so your help would be great! Thanks!!
 

Igneos79

Banned
Jun 19, 2010
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i think you are way to offensively setup...you would dominate most sides, but be vulnerable to counters...I would use a structured formation, something like 4123 DM Wide, to have most team waiting at the back if attack flops...but attack quickly once ball is won...thats how Barcelona used to play, or still do, not sure...a 4231 wide is IMHO more suitable to a fluid counter approach, the opposite of this one, based on solid defending....fluid is in any case needed if you aren't going to have anyone in dm/wb position, to make the team tighter or you will have a gap between your defence and midfield...
 

Mike.

Moderator
Staff member
Feb 15, 2009
31,888
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it's not a case of mistakes.

Before changing anything, play competitive games with it, preferably on comprehensive.

Ask yourself what exact you are trying to acheive with this; Who are the goalscorers, who will supply them, who protects the defencs, do you want a high risk, high reward style, or something more pragmatic.?
 

rocheyb

Member
Jul 8, 2013
3,274
110
63
A few suggestions:

- Instruct your goalkeeper to roll the ball out to your full backs, to facilitate playing out from the back.
- You don't have anyone in the DM position but both of your Central Defenders are on defensive mode. I'd switch one of them to Stopper mode to step out of the defensive line and engage the opposition in their No.10 area.
- If you're left-sided Inside Forward is on Support duty, an attacking left-back can overlap to get to the byline and put crosses in for you, so switch your left-back to Attack mode.
- Keep the right-back on Support mode so you don't get over exposed at the back.
- Two Central Midfielders in the CM line? How about a Deep-Lying Playmaker_Support alongside a Ball-Winning Midfielder_Defend?
- Complete Forwards will roam around that No.10 area, so he and your Advanced Playmaker_Attack may end up filling the same space. Try the AP on Support duty behind your CF_Attack - the AP will keep his position but play short passes into the path of your striker. Train them both to play more one-twos so they pick their way through defences.
- Put your right winger on Attack duty, with instructions to get to the byline and cross the ball. He's well covered by the full back behind him and the central midfielders so let him concentrate on offering more to your attack - he'll also provide a useful outlet when you're defending and a way to springboard counter attacks.
- Personally, I don't like the 4-2-3-1 system in FM because I can never get enough out of the No.10. I use a DM in a 4-3-3 (or 4-5-1, if you prefer) which would mean replacing your Advanced Playmaker with a Defensive Midfielder_Defend, with a Deep-Lying Playmaker_Support and an Advanced Playmaker_Support/Attack in front of him.
 
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Neeeko

Member
May 30, 2014
79
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0
A few suggestions:

- Instruct your goalkeeper to roll the ball out to your full backs, to facilitate playing out from the back.
- You don't have anyone in the DM position but both of your Central Defenders are on defensive mode. I'd switch one of them to Stopper mode to step out of the defensive line and engage the opposition in their No.10 area.
- If you're left-sided Inside Forward is on Support duty, an attacking left-back can overlap to get to the byline and put crosses in for you, so switch your left-back to Attack mode.
- Keep the right-back on Support mode so you don't get over exposed at the back.
- Two Central Midfielders in the CM line? How about a Deep-Lying Playmaker_Support alongside a Ball-Winning Midfielder_Defend?
- Complete Forwards will roam around that No.10 area, so he and your Advanced Playmaker_Attack may end up filling the same space. Try the AP on Support duty behind your CF_Attack - the AP will keep his position but play short passes into the path of your striker. Train them both to play more one-twos so they pick their way through defences.
- Put your right winger on Attack duty, with instructions to get to the byline and cross the ball. He's well covered by the full back behind him and the central midfielders so let him concentrate on offering more to your attack - he'll also provide a useful outlet when you're defending and a way to springboard counter attacks.
- Personally, I don't like the 4-2-3-1 system in FM because I can never get enough out of the No.10. I use a DM in a 4-3-3 (or 4-5-1, if you prefer) which would mean replacing your Advanced Playmaker with a Defensive Midfielder_Defend, with a Deep-Lying Playmaker_Support and an Advanced Playmaker_Support/Attack in front of him.
This is great, honestly thank you so much! I'll go with your suggestions but have a few questions:

- Would it work if I put the left IF_attack with the left FB_support / Right winger_support and right FB_attack?
- What would happen if I changed the right winger to a IF so i'd have 2 IFs?
- I've been told sometimes you don't even need any team instructions. Do you think this tactic would work with minimal TIs?
 

WJ

Member
Apr 3, 2014
4,477
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Pretty much anything can work with minimal TIs. The main problem is that people add a million TIs before even seeing if it's needed and 99% of them end up messing up a decent base tactic.
 

rocheyb

Member
Jul 8, 2013
3,274
110
63
This is great, honestly thank you so much! I'll go with your suggestions but have a few questions:

- Would it work if I put the left IF_attack with the left FB_support / Right winger_support and right FB_attack?
- What would happen if I changed the right winger to a IF so i'd have 2 IFs?
- I've been told sometimes you don't even need any team instructions. Do you think this tactic would work with minimal TIs?
Think of it in terms of First Wave and Second Wave attacks.

During a First Wave attack (for example, when you hit the opposition on the counter attack) you want your, let's say, right winger to receive the ball near the halfway line and then set off on a very direct attacking run, either directly for goal or down the wing so he can cross for your striker or the other winger to score. If your right winger is successful, then your right back isn't going to be involved in that attack - the play will be well ahead of him - so there will be no benefit to having your right back on Attack mode.

Now imagine that initial attack was not successful. If the opposition now has the ball and your right back is caught out steaming forward to fulfil his Attack instruction, you're exposed down that wing. But if your right back is in Support mode, he will have a better chance of being in a position to defend the opposition's counter attack. If your initial attack has stalled but your team still has possession, a right back in Support mode can offer additional width to receive passes from your winger or central midfielders to kickstart the Second Wave attack - either crossing the ball himself or combining with his teammates to work the ball into the box. So in a sense, having your right back on Support duty, and central midfielders who can cover across if needed, gives your right winger license to concentrate on what he does best - up there in the final third.

But I'm a Southampton fan and I do like an attacking left-back: Wayne Bridge, Gareth Bale, Luke Shaw, Ryan Bertrand. Most of what I understand of FM tactics came from my monumental Southampton save in FM14 when I had a young Luke Shaw from the start and kept him for the duration of his career as I turned The Saints into European Champions. I found the best way to get him into attacking positions was to have the wide man in front of him - whether an M(L) or an AM(L) - on Support mode, so they would wait for him to come sprinting forward on the overlap, adding an extra player to the attacking move and often isolating and overloading the opposition right back to create a crossing opportunity from the left wing. If the left back is too far back to join in, the M(L)/AM(L) will go on without him but otherwise the left back will go and get involved. Then, the fact that your right back is a bit more of a Steady Eddy - and I often play with a DM, too - means that your centre backs are not left holding the fort on their own should the opposition manage to win the ball back and come at you again.

Inside Forwards will drive infield, so they will drag full backs and midfielders towards the middle, leaving space on the wings that a good attacking full back (or wing back) can exploit. The IF dribbling infield, laying the ball back to a DLP who then sprays the ball out the wing for the overlapping full back is an effective way to get your man into a dangerous crossing position. If you have IFs on both wings, then you can create these overlapping opportunities on both wings, but you'll also run the risk of leaving yourself exposed down the wings on the counter, with your two centre backs trying to spread themselves across the entire width of the pitch.

Getting to grips with Team Instructions, Individual Player Instructions and Preferred Player Moves took me ages. I eventually managed it by making small changes and watching matches in the Comprehensive View to look out for what difference it made to my team's approach in-match. By doing that, I worked out which instructions complement or contradict each other and how I can impose one set of instructions at the Team Level but issue different instructions to individual players whose skills enabled them to offer something different - e.g. I play a short passing game but I always have at least one (and usually two) central midfielder who Plays More Direct Passes and has the PPM for Switch The Ball to Opposite Flank Often, so my team can quickly exploit space on the wings when it opens up. I use quite a lot of instructions, but I know what every one of them is meant to do and I can judge how effective my changes are by watching the match.
 
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