Is it me or the game?

[alantonner87]

Been playing as AC Milan and am in February of my first season, and seem to have the same things happening over and over no matter what instructions I give to my team and players. Before I get into it I'd like to say that all of my coaches are rated at 4 stars and above and each has a light workload, I also hired several of the best physios as well. I view the match in the 2D engine and only watch the key highlights.

• No matter what I do my players just won't play out of defence. Have instructed the team to play out of defence, play short passes and also my keeper to distribute to centrebacks yet anytime the highlights appear they are lumping the ball up the park.
• The only goals my team seem to score are rebounds. Lost count of the number of one-on-ones and tap ins that my strikers have missed (my two main strikers are Zaza and Shaarawy have finishing of 16). The goals they do manage to score though seem ridiculous, defenders smashing the ball against each other after which it falls kindly to my striker.
• The majority of the shots my players take go off target to a stupid extent, such as almost hitting the corner flag or going out for a throw in (without being deflected).
• Seem to concede at least a goal a game, largely because almost every cross that comes into my box results in a goal,even if my CB (Balanta, heading 16) is marking a striker with heading of 10.
• Cannot for the life of me stop my players getting booked (at least 5 a game). Again, instructions are set to stay on feet, ease of tackles etc.
• Last but not least the good old injuries. Of course they happen in real life (Man Utd this season) but I have a player forced off injured at least every 2nd game, and they're usually out for 2 months or more. General training is set to Balanced with light intensity, and my players have their individual training set to medium intensity.

If someone could tell me where I'm going wrong or if they too are experiencing what I would call bugs in the match engine.

 

[Death Ball]

Playing a save with AC Milan, I'd say some it's you, others bad luck

No matter what I do my players just won't play out of defence. Have instructed the team to play out of defence, play short passes and also my keeper to distribute to centrebacks yet anytime the highlights appear they are lumping the ball up the park.

I expect that if you watch full, that's not the case. The issue likely is that your team tends to lose it easily or can't find ways to get into threatening positions when they start playing from defence, being only when the ball is kicked above the opposition's midfield when you manage to get something. Possibly the team is broken, leaving attack and defence too separated to allow the required team work in bringing the ball up. At some point, maybe the difference between defensive and offensive midfielders or midfield and attack make it so the attacking players are too advanced to be valid passing options and the defensive midfielders are forced into trying to dribble with the ball when that's not easy for them.

[*]The only goals my team seem to score are rebounds. Lost count of the number of one-on-ones and tap ins that my strikers have missed (my two main strikers are Zaza and Shaarawy have finishing of 16). The goals they do manage to score though seem ridiculous, defenders smashing the ball against each other after which it falls kindly to my striker.

Not the case for me, though my strikers are being underwhelming, apparently finding only a bit of success with El Shaaarawy and Larrivey since December. Possibly from the previous point? The way you get your chances is with distances for which the saves are not really as hard as they may look. If you use a highlight mode showing more, maybe you'll need the full match mode to get to see them, to see how is it that your plays end in nothing when playing out of defence, that should improve.

[*]The majority of the shots my players take go off target to a stupid extent, such as almost hitting the corner flag or going out for a throw in (without being deflected).

Likely same as above. Solving the first will improve this.

[*]Seem to concede at least a goal a game, largely because almost every cross that comes into my box results in a goal,even if my CB (Balanta, heading 16) is marking a striker with heading of 10.

It's not just heading, it's also strength, marking, jumping reach and positioning. My defence tends to have some flaky moments, though mine if from through balls as I tend to have it high, so I'd say this comes from tactics (unless you haven't updated the game since the release, in which case it'd be a bug). Try different closing and marking of crossers and defence advance.

[*]Cannot for the life of me stop my players getting booked (at least 5 a game). Again, instructions are set to stay on feet, ease of tackles etc.

I don't use any and I don't have cards issues. In January I only had Armero suspended once and Zapata is now one card away from suspension. So I find that a bit weird. Do you leave the OI to your assistant? Some seem to love the tackle hard that will negate your team and individual instructions.

[*]Last but not least the good old injuries. Of course they happen in real life (Man Utd this season) but I have a player forced off injured at least every 2nd game, and they're usually out for 2 months or more. General training is set to Balanced with light intensity, and my players have their individual training set to medium intensity.

Team training variable focus, balanced but I rotate each week from different focus. Intensity low. Individual intensities heavy unless they have more to train, like preferred moves or new position. I'm not having injury issues. The longest was van Ginkel's one month and a half, the rest were of days. During a match, when the warning appears with the cross and they've dropped more than 10% condition, I sub them immediately. If not I may risk letting them play some more.

 

[WJ]

Just a side note: Heading is only header accuracy. It doesn't have anything to do with reaching that ball.

 

[MANUMAD]

Its your tactics. And you should watch matches in Extended at the very least.

 

[SteVieBizzLe]

The only thing I agree with, or have a shared experience with is the Strikers shooting accuracy. The iteration of FM is as bad as its been in a while, im lucky to get ~20% of shots on target, with Man Utd with a World Class strike force.

'Luckily' the game makes up for this by letting you score ridiculous goals, like corner bugs, blasting in from impossible angles and laughable defending etc.

Good Ol' Football Manager.


I'm not bitter though, I just won everything in 2nd Season, just find it funny.

 

[WJ]

20% is low. Too low. You can improve that massively with better tactics.

 

[SteVieBizzLe]

Yeah I guess my 'tactics' aren't good enough, despite winning the league with 7 games left to play, winning the CL (including a 10-2 aggregate victory over R.Madrid), FA Cup and league cup?

Why is it impossible for people to consider that the programmers haven't made strikers in FM act realistically? is it my tactics that make my 'World Class' Strikers (Van Persie, Rooney, Falcao, Destro) miss the actual goal in 8/10 one-on-ones? They miss that many because it is far too easy to create those chances, so to stop cricket scores from happening every game (because SI can't develop the build up play properly in their coding) SI have to massively nerf the ability of strikers hitting the target.

Cop out response to say my tactics are the cause of poor finishing, without actually stopping for a minute to discuss the details.

 

[WJ]

They didn't massively nerf my strikers. I'm getting around half my shots on target. Also don't have a problem with my players finishing 1v1s, the same complaint that was around last year, when I also converted a lot of them.

 

[MANUMAD]

is it my tactics that make my 'World Class' Strikers (Van Persie, Rooney, Falcao, Destro) miss the actual goal in 8/10 one-on-ones?

Yes it is! It pains me to have to explain again the following as it should be pretty obvious: FM for all its realism is still a game. Having strikers miss what seems a lot of sitters is one of its ways of translating bad tactics to the ME! I play reactively and I routinely have my players miss sitters at the start of matches unless and until I chance upon "more correct" tactics/set up whereupon that is drastically reduced.

 

[SteVieBizzLe]

But my tactics can hardly be classed as 'Bad' when I have decimated everyone for a season and a half. Its not like my strikers didn't score, Rooney scored 45, Falcao scored 42 and Van Persie scored 35. Its not like im not getting goals, its just they miss 'easy' chances that should easily be goals, and then score from the impossible/ridiculous/unrealistic chances that would almost never result in the player scoring.

Im not sure how much "more correct" my tactics have to be? but if they were "more correct" I would be winning games by 10-11 goals every game.

I would accept your theory if my team wasn't performing, but because it is I have to reject your hypothesis I'm afraid.

 

[dave4787]

But my tactics can hardly be classed as 'Bad' when I have decimated everyone for a season and a half. Its not like my strikers didn't score, Rooney scored 45, Falcao scored 42 and Van Persie scored 35. Its not like im not getting goals, its just they miss 'easy' chances that should easily be goals, and then score from the impossible/ridiculous/unrealistic chances that would almost never result in the player scoring.

Im not sure how much "more correct" my tactics have to be? but if they were "more correct" I would be winning games by 10-11 goals every game.

I would accept your theory if my team wasn't performing, but because it is I have to reject your hypothesis I'm afraid.

I agree matey. Been playing fm since the old champ man games, champ man 2 to be precise, and recently over the years every complaint is 'your tactics aren't right'. Well I'm sorry but that's rubbish. I'm a fan boy of the game and will defend a lot of aspects till I'm blue in the face, but some people really need to understand that yes it is a game, and like every single other game out there, it isn't perfect. Things are wrong with it. And this is one of them. The defending on fm (AI controlled teams) is appalling, so the only way to control score lines is to 'nerf' the strikers.

On my save Aboubakar has 20 goals in 11 games so far, but should've had 40

 

[vanTiggelen]

If you take a closer look on FM, you'll find areas that are actually hugely, off, such as the number of tackles per game due the way the engine simulating defending (over-reliant on tackles, obviously). But which version so far didn't have the supposedly super keepers according to someone? Too few direct free kicks converted, even though real life conversion ratio unlike Fifa is but a few per cent? Too many injuries even though the game is tested to have fewer than real life on average? As for chance conversion, on a previous iteration human tactics occasionably focused on a single chance type that was only possible due to centre backs unrealistically splitting apart for a moment, namely through balls from no distance to a lone foward bang through the middle. This was registered as a clear cut chance every time it happened, even though as soon as the forward got the ball, the cbs would start closing down and the forward had to rush the shot. As soon as this was patched out, it naturally made a huge chunk of download tactics obsolete. The AI is far from genius, however never focuses overly and entirely on a single chance type and a single finisher who can be out of form, so doesn't suffer this, and by definition had a better chance conversion on average.


Inaccurate statistics and over-reliance on them can be a problem. If you watch finishes that were classed as half chances or cccs in the game, which by their nature will never be the exact same, you'll find that there's often very little difference in between the two. And that a good chunk of cccs ain't all that. Real-life conversion appears to hover around 33%, there is no such statistics on FM. Often there is an issue with the game's code, sometimes it is the human user, more often it is a combination of all those things. If only Klopp could blame a match engine for his side currently averaging 17 shots, 2nd only in behind Bayern, but only getting a miserably amount of those on target, and if he could only blame all his World Cup champion defenders being prone to the comical mistake on it all being a bad game. Check whoscored.com to see how many shots each team actually gets on target in real life -- on average, not only in matches in which they're forced to crack open parking bus teams, which arguably in FM happens too readily (defensive mentalities plus dropping deeper is an invitation for pressure, and so will be for the AI it if makes the decision to encourage such). In such situations in real-life, you also don't often see the attacking team being encouraged to go battle-ram for 90 minutes with overly attacking tactics (wich are arguably too readily applied in FM too), they try to out play and look for the opening, and FM has made it clear that sides amassing shots and not converting overly many can get frustrated.

More a general observation, not necessarily connected to the opening post: It doesn't help that a large chunk of popular community download tactics are very aggressive by definition, as they're mostly attempts at completely overloading the AI and relying on it not being able to react to such. Appears to work on occasion, however I wouldn't expect them to adhere to real-life football statistics in these regards either. If anyone happens to use them, they can't claim to be able to address various issues that can crop up such as the aforementioned either, naturally. There is one in these forums that has a thread of 100+ pages going and doesn't encourage there to be a centre midfielder who stays deep when attacking. In a midfield without any such designated holding player, you don't merely visibly lose cover, your side frequently won't be able to pass the ball back, as everyone is advanced and has to force a finish. Football logics 101, but they often don't come into play upon designing such tactics. Their sole purpose is overpowering the AI.


As for the passing, that hugely sounds like fielding a target man upfront, or defenders with personal traits that make them more prone to hitting long balls, watch theirprofile for PPMs. Fielding a target man out wide or upfront will by default encourage players to move the ball to him. A good measure to judge is looking at the stats of all the other teams in your league, as they are simulated likewise. If they don't get the bookies you collect, it could be an issue of tactics (players being stretched and caught out of position) or of the players you have (aggression attributes, but also hidden dirty ones). The same goes for injuries, there's a hidden attribute for injury proneness, always worth looking at the player#s injury history before purchasing him, or listening to the scouting feedback. However I wouldn't rule out my own doings either, even if I had won everything in the game. In particular as the game with its heavily inflated dribbling prowess of current (check the runs per game Hazard, Aguero, Messi et all make, causing havoc in almost every game) has never made it more obvious how it can be superior players alone who win you the trophies, to an extent in spite of mediocre tactical and man management.

 

[vanTiggelen]

Here's actually the SOT conversion of AI teams at the end of the first BL season on full match details.

View attachment 312882

View attachment 312881

View attachment 312880

View attachment 312879

Lewandowski and Ibisevic ended up the top scorers, with sharing a SOT conversion rate of 33% and 37,5 % respectively. Hertha's Kalou didn't finish much behind with 19 goals, converted 42,85% of his SOT. Additionally on my current Prem save, mid-season, Balotelli converts 44% of his shots, Costa still 33%. According to this the conversation ratio can be a tad lower, Falcao only converts 23% (still 51% of his shots are OT), but on average not by as hugely much as some tactically suspect, albeit AI overloading download tactics or high flying emotions and frustrations may make us believe.

https://notbottomline.wordpress.com/2013/01/17/who-is-europes-deadliest-finisher/

On previous iterations, it was shown that the AI would be actually underperforming, so a good human manager may top that. (Can't claim that I am). If there was a CCC convesion stat in FM, it should be lower as it has always been a lose stat that on occasion would pick up on finishes that aren't all that.

 

[ChipmunkFootball]

True your tactics can't be considered as bad as they get the results, but the missing of seemingly simple chances with regularity does normally come down to the engine trying to translate features of your tactic into a visual note to emphasise that you may be able to tweak your tactics to improve.

 

[alantonner87]

To be honest I'm about ready to chuck this years edition. For the sake of experimentation and to check if I was tactically stupid I played Napoli 10 times, quit without saving and played them again, and to be honest the results are a joke. The first 2 games finished as a score draw which I would've happily taken, but the following 8 games had me losing by at least a 5 goal margin. My GK and defenders are Diego Lopez, Armero, Balanta, Rami, Darmian and De Jong as anchorman.

• 9 of the 10 games resulted in me conceding a penalty, and 2 of those I conceded multiple penalties, and every penalty was scored. Now all of my defensive players are specifically instructed to ease off tackles so can anyone seriously tell me how that number of penalties can be accurate towards real life?
• 8 of the 10 games resulted in me having a player sent off, again with all of the above instructions applied.
• The vast majority of the goals I conceded were either shots which went right through the keeper, or (no surprise) headers. The thing that bothers me most about the headers is that so many are scored by players with fairly low heading and jump reach attributes, who are being marked by centrebacks who have much higher ratings in these areas.
• My full backs were instructed to tightly mark the wingers (the position, not the player) yet time after time I saw their wingers with huge amounts of space and getting crosses in totally unopposed.
• After having Napoli play through my defence too many times, I set my defensive line to drop deeper, which made no difference at all as I just kept conceding.

Are my tactics seriously that flawed that after 10 games I must've lost about 37-4 on aggregate? Doesn't seem to matter whether I defend deep or not, tackle hard or easy, attack, counter or contain I get hammered.

 

[alantonner87]

This is pretty much the standard way of it in the 10 games I've tried.

 

[vanTiggelen]

de Jong is that kind of player more likely to get a sending off due to his hidden and visible attributes, but that just as an ado. Reloading the same game can be problematic in particular if one of the two sides is low on morale, complacent or out of form. Obviously whilst the match wasn't played out, and the engine goes through play move by move from kick-off, obviously the sequences won't be the same, but the starting mental conditions in which the two sides find themselves in will always stay the same, and they can rub off on performance. Conceding 5 or more goals each time, suggesting your team is any decent, sounds like an issue though, even if this is Napoli away, not the worst of sides. I would like to see either the save or the match saved as a pkm uploaded, if you'd like some input. Not suggesting that it couldn't possibly be the game, but without any input this is borderline impossible to tell what is actually going on.

Free File Hosting - Online Storage; Upload Mp3, Videos, Music. Backup Files

Bit hard to believe in the 9 out of 10 re-runs each resulting in penalties though, tbh unless there is something weird going on with man management that would make de Jong and similar players you may have pump up each time when loading up that game, with the knock-on being that regular penalty and sending off. Did you apply marking instructions that would have stretched the defense? You had fielded an anchor man, which sounds decent. Another possible source of leaving space behind is fielding a forward and an AMC, both on attack duty. Depending on the formation the opposition will have a field day centrally when you lose possession as they both won't defend. I'd like to see a match at least either way as this sounds very curious to me too, unless this is just a thread to vent anger and frustration, but despite you not responding to any suggestions so far initially the title and opening post suggested otherwise, so... Funny thing is that I cannot relate to the many header goals either, and I've looked at actual statistics rather than relying on gut feelings. If anything, there are too few goals from headers.

 

[alantonner87]

I'm new to this so I will get a match saved and uploaded which shows these problems.

Switched to another match engine which helped briefly but the amount off missed chances my team still have is still unreasonable. Pretty standard for me to have 30 shots at goal and convert 1, whereas the opposition no matter how inferior are clinical, finishing off moves like Van Nistelrooy. The way the chances are missed is even worse, comical finishing where a shot from 6 yards out almost hits the corner flag

 

[alantonner87]

Been away on a training course all week with work this is me just getting back to the game. Started a new season and the first game is a perfect example of the inaccuracy of my strikers shooting. Can anyone suggest why this is happening based on the upload I've posted?

 

[WJ]

Can you detail what your tactic looks like as well? Would save time for anyone watching.