Libertadores is amazing...

[PalestrinoSEP]

Earlier today, the champions Internacional were eliminated by Peñarol in Brazil.

**as I was writing this topic, Libertad scored twice against Fluminense, so Libertad got their place in the quarter-finals**

Grêmio lost their first match in Porto Alegre, and Universidad Católica beat Grêmio in Chile again.

Cruzeiro, the favorites for 2011 Libertadores lost against the Once Caldas playing home! Cruzeiro had the chance to lose the match by 1x0, but the lost 2x0. The greatest team in the Group Stage was knocked out by the not-so-good colombian team.

The only Brazilian team to reach the next stage was Santos.

I'm speachless:O

 

[Athe~]

I was going to post this just now lol! Group stage had been a nightmare for us Argentinians, but knockout stages have proven fatal to you Brazilians. Really, really shocking results.

 

[PalestrinoSEP]

The Gods of Libertadores must hate Brazil. We've been to the same number of finals than Argentinian clubs, but we simply lose it! Palmeiras reached the final 4 times(5, if it wasn't for the ref). We lost the second edition to Peñarol, then in '68 against Estudiantes(if that final was today, we would be the champions for the home/away goal rules.. unlucky<)). We were the '99 champions and Riquelme destroyed Palmeiras in 2000, when we lost during the penalties, same way we had won in '99. During the 2001 semifinal against the same team, Ubaldo Aquino was Boca's 12th player

São paulo lost 3 finals. Cruzeiro and Grêmio were runners up twice.

The best result for Brazil this year was Corinthians' loss for Tolima<)

Also, sad that Inter and Grêmio are out, they were going to make the quarter finals. The Gre-Nal derby in the Libertadores would be better than the Superclássico semifinals in the CL. No doubt.

 

[Athe~]

It was very surprising to see this massive sudden failure by Brazilian teams. Cruzeiro had conceded 1 goal and socred 22 in the group stages, I thought they were going to be unstoppable, yet they were defeated by the worst team (in terms of numbers) to reach the knockout stages.

And historical records clearly favor Argentinian teams, but at this rate, I wouldn't expect it to last much longer, even though we have ~8 more trophies. Brazilian teams seem to have gotten financially stronger over the years and are able to attract better players and to hold on to their most valuable assets for longer - I can only wish we could do the same.

 

[curtis290]

This is why I love South American football...you'd never see this many upsets in the Champions League. European football is so predictable.

---------- Post added at 01:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:22 AM ----------

Santos is the favorite to win it though...I'd love to see Estudiantes or Velez do it though for the sake of the Argentine league.

 

[Athe~]

I'm tipping Velez to mount a serious challenge now. Can see them going all the way. Santos is the biggest threat, though.

 

[PalestrinoSEP]

I've no favorites now. For me, Libertadores got somehow uninteresting after this(but my respect for the competition is even bigger). Argentinian and Uruguayan teams know how to play the Liberta, while we Brazilians fail play at our best. Anyway, this massive elimination will make the Brasileirão even better, because in Brazil, you can't play the Libertadores and the Copa do Brasil at the same time, so teams will be more focused on the league.

 

[curtis290]

I've no favorites now. For me, Libertadores got somehow uninteresting after this(but my respect for the competition is even bigger). Argentinian and Uruguayan teams know how to play the Liberta, while we Brazilians fail play at our best. Anyway, this massive elimination will make the Brasileirão even better, because in Brazil, you can't play the Libertadores and the Copa do Brasil at the same time, so teams will be more focused on the league.

I think that's changing though, Uruguayan teams are great defensively and Argentine teams are probably better organized, which is good for tournament play, but Brazilian teams have an advantage in athleticism, also very crucial in tournament play, and apparently their managers are paying more and more attention to tactics. And of course for all of the reasons that have been discussed many times, their clubs are in far better financial shape and can hang onto their players better (and this trend will only continue). As the country develops economically their footballers will only get better and better, too. Argentina, unfortunately, is in a major decline, they just can't pay their players enough. One city can't support a league, and Argentine players are leaving for crappy leagues in Europe that pay them better.

The fact that these incredibly talented Brazilian teams get knocked out attests to the amount of quality in South America. European sides would really struggle there, not only because of the conditions (fans, stadiums, pitches, etc.) but also because of the talent that's there. And of course it's so much more entertaining, there's less money and more parity (which makes the games and league more exciting) and the style of play isn't as corrupted by the modern tactical game. It is so much better to watch than European football, too bad it's not so relevant anymore. If only you had to play in your own country! South American football would be absolutely amazing, and European football would be unwatchable (save for maybe Spain). Argentine, Brazilian, and sometimes Uruguayan teams would absolutely dominate the European sides in the Club World Cup. What a **** shame that neo-imperialism has spread into the world of football! It's a great microcosm of neoliberalism.

 

[GodCubed]

Major problem with Argentinian sides is their lack of truly top-class goalkeepers, I think.

 

[curtis290]

Major problem with Argentinian sides is their lack of truly top-class goalkeepers, I think.

Yeah there aren't any great Argentine goalkeepers at the moment, but there are some solid ones. Andujar for Estudiantes is very good. My team, Independiente has three! You wouldn't believe how good our keepers are. We had this great keeper named Fabian Assman (great name, I know), and he got a really long-term injury so we put in our back-up, Hilario Navarro. Navarro ended up being even better than Assman, and then he got hurt, so we brought in our other back-up, Adrian Gabbarini, and he ended up being even better than Navarro! He got called up to the national team, in fact. But yeah, I'd rate all three of them over Almunia, and one of them is going to be sold to Europe this summer apparently.

 

[PalestrinoSEP]

I dunno about Argentinian keepers, but Brazilian keepers are getting better. Still, no one touches Palmeiras, we even created the "GK trainer", until then, no team in the world had somebody to work only with keepers. Marcos(Alongside with Ademir da Guia, the Divine, Saint Marcos is Palmeiras' greatest idol), Leão, Valdir de Moraes, Obedan Cattani, Velloso were all the greatest(Marcos is still playing, and you play today, it's his last year) and now we have Deola and Bruno who are great.

About Argentinian and Uruguayan, I've read today in the newspaper they made a bid for the '30 WC, that right?

 

[GodCubed]

Assmann? As in, the ex-Las Palmas one? He was decent, I remember.

 

[PalestrinoSEP]

I dunno about Argentinian keepers, but Brazilian keepers are getting better. Still, no one touches Palmeiras, we even created the "GK trainer", until then, no team in the world had somebody to work only with keepers. Marcos(Alongside with Ademir da Guia, the Divine, Saint Marcos is Palmeiras' greatest idol), Leão, Valdir de Moraes, Obedan Cattani, Velloso were all the greatest(Marcos is still playing, and you play today, it's his last year) and now we have Deola and Bruno who are great.

About Argentinian and Uruguayan, I've read today in the newspaper they made a bid for the '30 WC, that right?

Forget what I said about Marcos retiring in the end of this year, it was today (<--Not spamming, one for each goal conceded today)

 

[curtis290]

Assmann? As in, the ex-Las Palmas one? He was decent, I remember.

Yep, that's the one. They loaned him out there because he couldn't get a game in with Navarro and Gabbarini in the side. Apparently they're selling one of their keepers this summer and I have a feeling it will be him.

Who do you guys think will win? I'm thinking either Velez or Santos (although I hear Ganso is injured). Velez usually doesn't do too well in international competitions but maybe this year is their year since they have more experience now. They're doing great domestically at least.

 

[GodCubed]

Velez have been pretty good so far, I'd say them.

 

[august0]

I think Santos will win it, Ganso is injured but they still got good players like Neymar and Elano

 

[Athe~]

Major problem with Argentinian sides is their lack of truly top-class goalkeepers, I think.

Can't believe I missed this.

Carrizo, from River. Absolutely, 100% amazing. He's too much of an eccentric, though, and his antics can prove costly, but he's on par with the best of Europe, I'd say. He was crucified after the 6-1 defeat to Bolivia, but people often forget it was his first match in like 6 months.

 

[GodCubed]

Can't believe I missed this.

Carrizo, from River. Absolutely, 100% amazing. He's too much of an eccentric, though, and his antics can prove costly, but he's on par with the best of Europe, I'd say. He was crucified after the 6-1 defeat to Bolivia, but people often forget it was his first match in like 6 months.

Juan Carrizo? I remember him, played for Lazio and Zaragoza IIRC? He could pull off some stunning saves, didn't see enough of him to comment on his 'antics' apart from I remember he got fined once for complaining about being benched.

 

[Athe~]

Juan Carrizo? I remember him, played for Lazio and Zaragoza IIRC? He could pull off some stunning saves, didn't see enough of him to comment on his 'antics' apart from I remember he got fined once for complaining about being benched.

Well, Superclásico (Boca - River) on Sunday may give you the chance to watch him, I'll probably post up a few streams in case anyone wants to watch. May even start a match thread.