It certainly is more difficult, and it can be frustrating not winning, which is why we encourage people to post threads in this manner http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-manager-2013-discussion/108429-help-threads.html so we can help them
Life long fan about to rage quit football manager... for good
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It certainly is more difficult, and it can be frustrating not winning, which is why we encourage people to post threads in this manner http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-manager-2013-discussion/108429-help-threads.html so we can help them
Where is the fun and realism in a football manager game where there is no challenge to win with a big team?
This is one of my favourite FM's simply because this is why I buy simulation games... for a challenge.
Come on guys.... stick with it and feel the rewards when YOU actually grind out a result, even Jose Mourinho doesn't win everything.
This is one of my favourite FM's simply because this is why I buy simulation games... for a challenge.
Come on guys.... stick with it and feel the rewards when YOU actually grind out a result, even Jose Mourinho doesn't win everything.
I think the frustration comes when people cant understand why they are doing badly. And therefore cant stop the rot.
I understand the frustration from that aspect, but doesn't that make the game more compelling?
Knowing that you got something wrong in match 'X' so you try and change something to get it to work in the next. This to me is the fascination of management, maybe I am just odd.
Thanks for all the replies and opinions guys, some helpful stuff. I just want to reiterate because I am not sure if some people have missed my point. I had a super successful strategy. We won 11 games in a row. We beat everyone.
I am not saying that we cant win, or that I cant get them to play well. I am saying the dip in form is unrealistic and does not make sense because of how drastic it is.
My next point is that once stuck deep in the rut, I tried everything tactically to get the team back on track. Nothing worked. In my opinion this is unrealistic and extremely frustrating. I really agree with this guy.
I think there is far too much weighting on morale and team talks. Morale ok, but saying the right things in team talks, team meetings and private conversations with players is not ok when it is so limited. Half time talks have always perplexed me. I just think if confidence is high you tell the team you expect a win.... If confidence is low you encourage them..... And everynow and then use a harsh half time talk if you are losing, but do not use it regularly or it loses effectiveness. It is really rather limited. For example using the 'We played really well today, which makes me ask why you cant perform like this every week.....' That is how i feel if they scrape a win or a decent away draw, but there is NEVER a suitable time for that in my opinion. Every time I have ever said it everyone has reacted badly and I have even had it where they complain about your team talks to the papers.
I think tactics, player ability, player potential, player position suitability, team blend and team/player consistency should be the most important factors in performance. After this should be several minor factors like home / away bias... morale (unless terrible)... and then team talks.
One last time... how does a team go from a 11 game win streak to relegation zone and then the sack in half a season using the same strategy? Is that really realistic.... unless your owner is Roman Abramovic....
Also in my game just speaking of realism, Tottenham were relegated. I am a lifelong Arsenal fan so although this pleased m, it is extremely unrealisitc...
I am not saying that we cant win, or that I cant get them to play well. I am saying the dip in form is unrealistic and does not make sense because of how drastic it is.
My next point is that once stuck deep in the rut, I tried everything tactically to get the team back on track. Nothing worked. In my opinion this is unrealistic and extremely frustrating. I really agree with this guy.
I think there is far too much weighting on morale and team talks. Morale ok, but saying the right things in team talks, team meetings and private conversations with players is not ok when it is so limited. Half time talks have always perplexed me. I just think if confidence is high you tell the team you expect a win.... If confidence is low you encourage them..... And everynow and then use a harsh half time talk if you are losing, but do not use it regularly or it loses effectiveness. It is really rather limited. For example using the 'We played really well today, which makes me ask why you cant perform like this every week.....' That is how i feel if they scrape a win or a decent away draw, but there is NEVER a suitable time for that in my opinion. Every time I have ever said it everyone has reacted badly and I have even had it where they complain about your team talks to the papers.
I think tactics, player ability, player potential, player position suitability, team blend and team/player consistency should be the most important factors in performance. After this should be several minor factors like home / away bias... morale (unless terrible)... and then team talks.
One last time... how does a team go from a 11 game win streak to relegation zone and then the sack in half a season using the same strategy? Is that really realistic.... unless your owner is Roman Abramovic....
Also in my game just speaking of realism, Tottenham were relegated. I am a lifelong Arsenal fan so although this pleased m, it is extremely unrealisitc...
i could not agree more. I started a game with dortmund, played great football but leaked goals but managed to be top 4. changed my tactics went on to win the league and europa league bearing in mind i could not beat a big team to save my life. next season i got sacked 15 games in. I had the same tactic and got better players to cover my positions. i was 8th, nearly out of the champions league and dumped out of the cup by a 2nd division side. i took over liverpool shortly after took them from 20th to 4th with the same tactic but tweaked but i kept leaking goals. i tweaked it again and it worked wonders up until the last few games i went unbeaten 20 games and destroyed smaller teams. dominated big teams it was perfect. now i cant stop leaking goals and cant get anything better than a draw. its amazing. i am doing two games at once as i try out different things with the other smaller team and with them i have changed my tactics constantly and its worked a lot better. i think AI figures out a way to beat your tactic after about 12 games and then you are screwed especially if you keep using the same. its very weird. been playing FM since 97 and its just so weird, you cant build invincibillity and barcelona seem impossible to beat no matter what you do.... needs to be sorted.
Morale really isnt as important as you make out it out to, but is important. As it is in real life. The dip in form isnt drastic, you simply havent been able stop the rot. This happens in real life too, and managers enf up sacked. See Redknapp as a great recent example.
You last sentence is key: same strategy. You didnt adapt when things started going against you. The short version is that you were simply outmanouvered, didnt adapt and you were sacked. Just like a real manager.
Il add to my earlier advice and try make it shorter...
Basically if are making a new tactic or feel your form is slipping watch more of the game i.e. watch it on comprehensive at least... Then you can make changes to exploit a weakness or counter a threat because I dont think teams actually change their style until 10/15 mins into the game...
This is something I like to think I got from Bielsa; I think its important to have a plan depending on how the game is going... For example I play a cautious 4231 Possession/Control style with fairly high pressing if Im struggling to make an impact I use 'work ball into box, play thru DF, pass into space and sometimes switch from control to attack or play without a playmaker', if a team plays wide I play thru the middle and if they are narrow I play down the flanks... I have a 4411 counter which I use if the other team starts to make effective counters against my team as well.. What I have to stress here is these plans have taken time to develop but I dont see why some of my plans wouldnt work for others...
Team talks like always should be more demanding at home and more lenient away from home. However Iv found that passionately telling my players I have faith in them works very well for my team but I only use it for away games which may be a struggle and against big teams and rivals...
Experimentation is king and this also comes in with watching full matches when you make your tactics and when you sign new players... Il post the difference in Fede Vico's performance in my last two seasons if you guys want to show you the development of his role and the impact on my team... Essentially he went from having his worst season ever for me in season 4 to having his best ever in season 5 because I started to watch more of the match and pay attention to what my players were doing and make changes which I felt could improve his game and eventually some experimentation which led to him playing RW instead of LW...
I only really started playing FM when I went to college in 2008 before that I had the likes of LMA, premier league manager etc. This season has taught me alot prior to FM11/12 I was much more hands on I went into detail but FM11/12 let you take things easy... This game can be frustrating at times but once you start to get some success and fix your problems you will realise this game is much better.. Last years game for me was about experimenting with different formations and how they worked but I looking back I got lazy I found a style of play that was essentially plug and play with almost any team the only difference was I used different formations (433 w/Charlton, 41212 w/Ac Milan, 4231 w/Villa, 3412 w/Napoli)...
This year I have got back to playing it properly and the sense of satisfaction has been much better than any other... My Champions Lge win is my best moment in any manager Iv ever had and I won it on penalties and got some luck on the way... It wasnt a perfectly orchestrated tactical win it was solid team talks, making small changes in how my team played and getting a little bit of luck, the most intense match Iv had in FM since 2009 when I pulled off a shock win in the league cup against United with Notts Co.
The game was annoying the **** out of me up until last week when I completely revamped my tactics and decided to start watching games and pay attention to what was happening in them...
Its my theory on why good FBs are much harder to find in FM than goalscorers or playmakers and why they cost so much... You can also buy a leading CB, CM or CF for cheaper a leading FB and as Mike as alluded to FBs have become the most important player on the pitch in modern football... They often have the most time and space on the pitch their development in recent years is incredible really...Stokes FBs are an example of FBs use to be like now look at the best FBs around guys who would have been Wingers or Box to Box MFs in the older days...
Can't agree more. Have read so many posts in these forums about how people want to quit because its too hard or unrealistic etc, but for me this is absoulutely the best FM to date, because you simply can't set a tactic, buy the best players and hit start game and watch the goals fly in. Changing the match engine from that sort of stuff is the best thing SI have done.
There seems to be a growing misconception that the AI somehow "learns" your tactic over the course of a season or two, thus making your primary tactic obsolete. I have yet to see evidence for this, and by trying to find this evidence I have instead come across moderators on SI forums saying this is NOT the case.
Rather it's about how if you win games and/or trophies, your reputation will increase and your club will reach a higher stature. This will, in turn, lead to the other teams giving you more respect and often operating more defensively, becoming aware of your strong players and effectively closing them down or otherwise countering the threat they pose. Other influencing factors may be numerous and various, and include such things as player morale, tactics used vs tactics faced, playing home/away, high expectations, complacency etc.
To anyone who thinks I'm monumentally mistaken: Please correct me if I'm wrong about this, but if you do, please include some sources for your claims. People have so incredibly differing experiences with their games it's pointless to refer to anecdotes. I for one do not believe the AI in this game is so advanced that it learns your tactics (except for the isolated case of match to match), and even if it did, why would it take a year or even more? If a manager sticks to a primary tactic which he supplements with a secondary and tertiary tactic, most other managers will (in real life) figure this out alot faster than after a year. In other words, if the AI indeed IS that advanced, they somehow managed to apply it in a very stupid and unrealistic manner.
EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm thoroughly enjoying the game, sitting on the top of the league, and even in my 4th season the AI has yet to "learn" my primary tactic well enough to effectively counter it. I'm not trying to poke a stick at SI, but I am however seeking clarification regarding this myth.
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Adapt isnt the same as changing tactic because the AI learns it. I have made zero such claim that the AI learns your tactic. In since I've frequently said the opposite, I'm genuinely baffled as to how you came to that conclusion based on my post. You seems to have totally misread and misinterpreted what I said.
Well, I figured that might have been what you implied when you referred to him failing to adapt when things didn't go in his favor, although I didn't really conclude with anything regarding your post. It is also due to the frequency of which I've seen such claims been made on this forum, although I cannot keep track on what every single person claims or doesn't claim. In any case, my post should probably have been posted without any quotations, as it was in fact more of a general input than criticism against you specifically.
I agree with Mersk the same thing happened last year when your rep goes up things get more difficult...
Im not sure where I seen it but people have been claiming teams figure out your tactics and all that but from watching my games I couldnt see how it would be true... And if a team wants to beat me all they need do is play a variation of 532 or 352 since teams dont do this to me its clear they dont figure out your tactics...
Also no mod has explicitly said they figure out your tactics but Iv seen a few comments which would lead people to believe otherwise i.e. team x adapts during games, changes the team based on certain events and counters your threats. Which it does but to some people that may suggest they have figured out your game plan...
This years game has a bigger learning curve and recognising certain trends during matches has become the foundation of my success... I can play the same tactics almost every game because Iv built a side capable of playing how I want but it doesnt mean it works all the time... Im not sure how often it happens but there arnt many game where I dont make a change usually I have to go more attacking or be prepared to sacrifice some possession in order to open up the other side...
Threads like this contribute to sustaining the myth: http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/foot...8055-ai-learning-how-counter-your-tactic.html
The way I see it, this years game is NOT about frequently changing tactics and constantly tweaking and modifying your tactical approach, as some sort of protection against the AI "finding you out". Rather, the game is about applying the correct tactical approach for each match, individually. And maybe the most important part: Being able to make the correct tactical changes DURING a match if it is not going your way.
That was basically all I wanted to say, but I guess there's not much to do about it. After all, there are still loads of people who think the AI cheats in order to beat you, and refer to ME bugs and even crash issues to argue their case. People are gonna believe what they wanna believe.
The way I see it, this years game is NOT about frequently changing tactics and constantly tweaking and modifying your tactical approach, as some sort of protection against the AI "finding you out". Rather, the game is about applying the correct tactical approach for each match, individually. And maybe the most important part: Being able to make the correct tactical changes DURING a match if it is not going your way.
That was basically all I wanted to say, but I guess there's not much to do about it. After all, there are still loads of people who think the AI cheats in order to beat you, and refer to ME bugs and even crash issues to argue their case. People are gonna believe what they wanna believe.
The AI doesnt "learn" your tactic. It does however in game use the TC and shouts. And over time as your rep increases, teams will play differently against you. By adapt I mean.:He starts losing games, morale is dropping. In this case, i would be using a more pragmatic approach, less risky play, grind out wins and draws (probably packing the midfield in terms off approach), be more generous in my praise, while privately talking to underachievers.
Indeed there is a difference between playing style and tactical shifts. I have the same team instructions for all my 3 formations. What changes, its mentality, and any shouts I use, or a different choice of my 3 formations. And none of my choices are ever arbitrary. You can pick one formation and one playing style, so long as you use the shouts etc to adapt, and accept your style may be susceptible against certain sides, and you need to be aware of it.
People will believe what they want, and you can try and change that (believe me i try, often on deaf ears), but you can only show them the door, they can have to walk through it.
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There is a point in every manager's season when "The Winning Formula" simply ceases to work. Just like Barcelona. They seem victorious for so much of the season but eventually their opponents figure them out. Same story goes for FM. It gets really frustrating, and even more when you can't find a suitable tactic. My advice would be to switch the players around more. The first team players get fatigued near the end of the season, so rotate with your players more often.
OoscotsmanoO
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Well its been about 8 months since my last FM base tactic related Post, Bit the bullet to buy Fm13 after reading the update has been released, had my fair share of issues with the game 1 match in with Runtime Errors, Needles to say i fixed it, Anyway back to the OP
THe game this year has a Full Version and a Classic Version, the Full Version expects you to do almost 100% of an every day manager, Team talks, team meetings, praising when on form, Critisim when on bad form, A range of tactics to counter any style of play, you cant just pick one tactic and expect the team to win 100% of the time, you said you went like 12 games winning streak, Good run of form it happens in real life, then suddenly you cant win a game, Look at West brom this season amazing start now in a Slump and cant get a win in the last 3 games. It happens, Anyway back to my point, the Full version was designed to give the manager 100% control over the club with Loads of new things to do each season.
My advice to you is Play the Classic Version it is like Fm11 Fm10 style with just the Footballing basics which is what i think i will be doing this year. Guarentee you will notice a diffrence with your seasons.
THe game this year has a Full Version and a Classic Version, the Full Version expects you to do almost 100% of an every day manager, Team talks, team meetings, praising when on form, Critisim when on bad form, A range of tactics to counter any style of play, you cant just pick one tactic and expect the team to win 100% of the time, you said you went like 12 games winning streak, Good run of form it happens in real life, then suddenly you cant win a game, Look at West brom this season amazing start now in a Slump and cant get a win in the last 3 games. It happens, Anyway back to my point, the Full version was designed to give the manager 100% control over the club with Loads of new things to do each season.
My advice to you is Play the Classic Version it is like Fm11 Fm10 style with just the Footballing basics which is what i think i will be doing this year. Guarentee you will notice a diffrence with your seasons.