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Why have all of the utd threads conveniently been closed? Admittedly I didn't read through 14 pages of Chelsea-Utd so I don't know if there was lots of arguing or something...
I saw the highlights (well, goals and major incidents) on 101goals, so I can't talk about David Luiz.. From my angle, it looked like Smalling didn't move his leg/foot in time and Zhirkov was always going to go over at the slightest bit of contact; if there was contact, that's a penalty... (BBC said they weren't sure if there was anything Smalling could do, which suggests he did trip him.)
Brilliant comeback from Chelsea, and a superb finish from Luiz, who's looked really impressive when I've seen him and is still only 23...
Not sure why Vidic was sent off, seemed a bit of a nothing challenge on the edge of the box, without really warranting a (second) yellow card..
All the same, I'm not entirely sure why SAF is having a go - I guess that's part of football; what goes around comes around, and when it does come around, managers and fans will complain and wipe other, more favourable refereeing decisions from their memory (Neville v WBA, Neville v Stoke, Rooney v Wigan - who shouldn't even have been on the pitch to score, pen vs Arsenal etc.)
I'm sure Utd fans have a reason to feel aggrieved, but it's brilliant news for Arsenal, who have a real chance to pinch the title now.. Big injuries/suspensions for Utd vs Liverpool, too and I actually felt more confident of Liverpool taking points off Utd, considering the importance of the game for the fans etc.
It was fairly inevitable, though that Utd should finally lose away from home (again, but still..) - Teams just needed to take the chances they were inevitably going to get, unlike Wigan, Stoke etc.
It's all about how Arsenal respond to the defeat in the final, though - A Guardian graphic showed that actually, the majority of losers in the Lg Cup final either move UP a place, or stay the same. (Though I don't there was much chance of City/Spuds/Chelsea catching us in 2nd)
---------- Post added at 03:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:23 PM ----------
Seeing the highlights again, this comment in the Guardian article sums it up:
Smalling's challenge on Zhirkov was as punishable as Daniel Agger's on Berbatov at Old Trafford in the FA Cup in January. Bet Fergie and Man Utd fans weren't berating the ref that day. The fact that only one ref at one ground seems to give everything against Man Utd shouldn't obscure the fact that Fergie and his club have been successfully influencing officials for years. Rooney's non-punishment for a violent challenge last Saturday just the latest of so many decisions that have benefitted Man Utd.
I saw the highlights (well, goals and major incidents) on 101goals, so I can't talk about David Luiz.. From my angle, it looked like Smalling didn't move his leg/foot in time and Zhirkov was always going to go over at the slightest bit of contact; if there was contact, that's a penalty... (BBC said they weren't sure if there was anything Smalling could do, which suggests he did trip him.)
Brilliant comeback from Chelsea, and a superb finish from Luiz, who's looked really impressive when I've seen him and is still only 23...
Not sure why Vidic was sent off, seemed a bit of a nothing challenge on the edge of the box, without really warranting a (second) yellow card..
All the same, I'm not entirely sure why SAF is having a go - I guess that's part of football; what goes around comes around, and when it does come around, managers and fans will complain and wipe other, more favourable refereeing decisions from their memory (Neville v WBA, Neville v Stoke, Rooney v Wigan - who shouldn't even have been on the pitch to score, pen vs Arsenal etc.)
I'm sure Utd fans have a reason to feel aggrieved, but it's brilliant news for Arsenal, who have a real chance to pinch the title now.. Big injuries/suspensions for Utd vs Liverpool, too and I actually felt more confident of Liverpool taking points off Utd, considering the importance of the game for the fans etc.
It was fairly inevitable, though that Utd should finally lose away from home (again, but still..) - Teams just needed to take the chances they were inevitably going to get, unlike Wigan, Stoke etc.
It's all about how Arsenal respond to the defeat in the final, though - A Guardian graphic showed that actually, the majority of losers in the Lg Cup final either move UP a place, or stay the same. (Though I don't there was much chance of City/Spuds/Chelsea catching us in 2nd)
---------- Post added at 03:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:23 PM ----------
Seeing the highlights again, this comment in the Guardian article sums it up:
Smalling's challenge on Zhirkov was as punishable as Daniel Agger's on Berbatov at Old Trafford in the FA Cup in January. Bet Fergie and Man Utd fans weren't berating the ref that day. The fact that only one ref at one ground seems to give everything against Man Utd shouldn't obscure the fact that Fergie and his club have been successfully influencing officials for years. Rooney's non-punishment for a violent challenge last Saturday just the latest of so many decisions that have benefitted Man Utd.
Ah give it over will you ya's will win noting again this season and you can quote me on that if you like, We will win league and knock ya's out of the FA Cup and Barca will beat you in Champ League.
We didn't show up in the 2nd half and deserved to lose, Yes decisions went against us but it happens in Football and maybe it was Karma that Rooney shouldn't be playing and he was the one who scored and who also was tackled for what should have being a Luiz sending of, the peno is 50/50, Zhirkov knew what he was doing, its cheating but he got away with it, just makes the Liverpool game a must win.
Stop looking for arguments on this thread since other got closed.
We didn't show up in the 2nd half and deserved to lose, Yes decisions went against us but it happens in Football and maybe it was Karma that Rooney shouldn't be playing and he was the one who scored and who also was tackled for what should have being a Luiz sending of, the peno is 50/50, Zhirkov knew what he was doing, its cheating but he got away with it, just makes the Liverpool game a must win.
Stop looking for arguments on this thread since other got closed.
I'm not looking for arguments at all! I just put my opinions forward - I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to do that...
I agree fully with the Guardian poster who says that the penalty Utd won vs Liverpool to knock them out was just as soft as the one Zhirkov won last night..
It's just a little ironic that SAF/Utd say that referees decisions must be respected when Rooney gets away with blatant violent conduct, then SAF says that as soon as he knew Atkinson was the official, he "feared the worst", or something along those lines...
As I said, I'm sure UTD have several reasons to feel aggrieved - Luiz clearly should have been given a 2nd YC, especially if Vidic did later on (Although the way Rooney fell to the ground clutching his face was brilliant after Wigan) but clear double-standards from SAF, and UTD fans (that I've seen on other boards etc.), who claim to be whiter than white when Wenger "doesn't see" something, or complains at something else, but are more than willing to have a go when they're involved.
The bigger issue is how Arsenal respond tonight, and against Sunderland, compared to how Utd fare against a possible Andy Carroll without Vidic and Ferdinand. (They can't appeal because it's two yellows for NV right?).
I agree fully with your second point - Karma, and that's what happens.. Liverpool at Anfield is a must-win... Don't accuse me of looking for arguments though when you start your post like that..
---------- Post added at 04:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 PM ----------
Fair enough. :/
Abso-*******-lutely.
Sorry still ****** over last night as lets just say I don't like Chelsea to say the least and thought you were looking for arguements, usually don't get involved in arguments on match threads on this forum when we lose as I lose my head to easy.
Just going to say, don't think a lot of United fans were defending the referee's decision, quite a few were saying he deserved to be sent off. It was more the fact that the FA should be showing consistency and not changing the rules mid-season so Rooney gets banned.
Ferdinand is ruled out too. I trust Smalling at the back, but it'll be interesting to see how he copes without having defenders as experienced and influencing as Vidic and Ferdinand next to him. Also, hope Sunderland bounce back from 4 losses to get something.
