Loyalist - Opportunist – *********

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lubizinho

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Updated whenever a post is added to this thread with scoring details + screenshots.

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OverviewNetwork games can be a pain in the ***. Playing more than a season is virtually impossible. This challenge is essentially a network game without the network. It's a self-paced challenge where every player starts with the same team and over a 10 year career keeps a running score to compare with other players.Everyone that undertakes the challenge starts at the same point. Everyone loads the same nation (England), database (Large) and starting team (Sutton United). From that point forward it is up to you to determine how you want to play the next 10 years. Stay with Sutton if you want to build a dynasty or jump to a bigger team if the right offer comes your way. At the end of each season your score gets posted to the top of this thread (see: Current Standings). The player with the highest cumulative score at the end of 10 seasons is named the winner.

The Scoring SystemEach season (July 1st to June 30th) you earn points for the way your team performs. You can earn points based on your league finish, cup performances, individual awards and team development. Penalties exist to add a degree of difficulty. If your team incurred any penalties you subtract the penalty total from the season tally. Finally, you factor in any bonuses you may have gotten to arrive at the season score. Penalties and bonuses play an important role in the scoring system. Without them the player that gets the first offer from a big club wins because he has that much more time to rack up big value wins in the EPL and Champions League. To mitigate that potential there are penalties for jumping to bigger clubs, rewards for jumping to smaller clubs, and a loyalty bonus for sticking with your original team and the players that have taken you to the top. The images below have explanations for the different achievement points, penalties and bonuses that factor into your season score:

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Getting Started If you'd like to join the challenge you'll need to do the following:
  • Load England
  • Select a Large Database
  • Start Summer 2011
  • Select Sutton United in Blue Square Bet - South
  • Select Sunday League Experience
Finally, this challenge would be very annoying to play with a group of strangers you suspect are cheating. If you decide to take this challenge on please do so in the spirit of fairness. Play through injuries and losing streaks. Don't use editors and cheats. Special prize to the player that posts the lowest score in each season.I've attached PDF versions of the scoring system in the event you want to keep a copy on your computer. I look forward to seeing some of you take up the challenge. Good luck.

End-of-Season ReportsPlease make sure you include the following in your end-of-season updates:

General Info
  • Season Score
  • League Finish
  • Cups Wins
  • Individual Awards
  • # of Inbound Transfers
  • Team Development
  • Overall Score
Screenshots
  • League Table
  • Cup Finish
  • Inbound Transfers
  • Best 11 - League
  • Best 11 - Fans
  • etc...
 
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this seems like a good challenge to really test yourself as a manager may give it a go when i finish the san marino challenge :D
 
I'm shocked anyone read through it all. Thanks Fat! The San Marino challenge is a classic. Hope you're on the verge of a World Cup victory.

I think the L-O-M challenge will be more interesting to the general public once I've posted a 10 year score that everyone can beat. At a minimum I'll have to post a recap of season 1 as soon as I can get it done. The last time I ran this challenge with my buddies the first year was a blast because of the effect of the loyalty bonus. Obviously we all wanted to get promoted, but having a loyalty multiplier (and to a lesser extent the transfer penalty in year one) made it a real challenge to get out of the BBS since we were incentivized to get promoted with the maximum number of home-grown + start-of-game players.

If memory serves one friend loaded up on transfers in season 1 to avoid the growing fees in coming seasons while the rest of us settled on 3 or 4 transfers a piece. The guys that picked up fewer transfers in season 1 scored higher out of the gate, but they had to pick up more guys in season 2. The guy that picked up a ton of guys in season 1 had a better run in season 2 since he didn't have to replace as many guys. In year two I missed promotion because I thought I could get it done with what I had. When the injury bug hit I was screwed. That left me with some difficult decisions going forward.

Anyway it was fun to see how each person's decisions were being impacted by the different bonuses and penalties. This time around I'll keep post my progress so that others can get an idea of how this thing is supposed to work.
 
I love the structure of this challenge ... let's see how it goes! I'll let you know.
 
I'll give this a shot. Could be a lot of fun! It seems to me that trying to fix your team the first few years and having it last for a while would be better than trying to wait it out. I'm not weighing how many transfersI should make in season 1. Can't decide between a complete makeover vs. fixing a trouble spot or two (DL and MR).
 
Thanks for the feedback guys. Looking forward to seeing how you progress. I started last night and I've got to say...I'm really struggling out of the gate with the number of transfers I'm going to sign. So tempting to sign a bunch of guys, but I want to hold onto the loyalty bonus. Decisions, decisions.

In bonus news the real life Sutton United vs. Notts County in the FA Cup 2nd round was available on Fox Soccer tonight. I never would have watched prior to starting this challenge, but now that I'm invested I decided to watch. I knew we'd picked the right team for the challenge when the Sutton mascot (a dude in a 10 foot tall giraffe costume with the Sutton scarf tied around it's long-*** neck) insisted on walking through the handshake line before the start of the game. I had to laugh at the faces of the Notts County players as they were forced to shake hands with him. Sadly Notts County won 2-0. If only the U's had started the giraffe....

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I got some feedback from some of you regarding the loyalty bonus and the transfer penalty.

I've made an edit to the loyalty bonus so that players that you bring in on transfer that make an impact on the team can become eligible to be part of the loyalty bonus. The way we'll measure that is by including players that have been with your club for two promotions and are voted part of the fan best 11. A detailed explanation can be found by clicking on the green, spreadsheet image or downloading the pdf entitled, "Bonuses - Loyalist - Opportunist - *********".

There was also a question on the way I'd worded the transfer penalty. I've more fully fleshed out the text and hopefully you'll understand what the penalty is and how to apply it.

Thanks,
Lubizinho
 
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I've started this challenge, but I would like to suggest some additional scoring methods, I think you should get a point for each point you get in the league, so even if you have won the league early or are getting relegated it leaves you something to play for, I also think for each Goal difference you should get a point and each clean sheet you get you should also get a point.
 
Pars,

Glad to have you on board. I'm about 25% of the way through my first season. I plan to post an obnoxiously long recap once I've finished the season.

As far as your suggestions, I'm open to to it. Before I make the changes though let me run a few questions by you and anyone else that happens to have an opinion. First, let me make sure I understand your proposed changes. Are you saying that rather than getting points for finishing 1st, 2nd or 3rd in the league you get the number of points equal to the points you score in the league +/- goal differential?

I think it's a really interesting idea and could add a wrinkle. The concern is always how it affects balance between the playing styles. If we make the change and a player jumps to ManU how will this impact their score? I could see a scenario where in year 1 or 2 with a huge club you rack up a huge league points score + goal differential. On the flip side the guy that stuck with Sutton (and by extension Jennie the Giraffe) might be mid-table winning fewer points with a nearly non-existent goal differential.

Give it some thought and let me know if you think a change like this would throw off the balancing act I'm trying to achieve.
 
i don't know what values to give these changes but how about for every cup game you play you gain say 5 points per win per league for victories over higher league opposition and -10 per league for losses against lower league opposition.

e.g. if a league 1 team beat a prem team they would gain 10 points but if you were teh prem team you'd lose 20 points. that way you're encouraged to play for the cups even if you don't think you'll place well in them.

also to get around the points/ goal difference how about some sort of points modifier per league (i'll leave values up to you)

or maybe a point bonus/penalty for every position you are over/under you're media prediction.
 
One of the goals we had when putting the challenge together was to create a challenge that wouldn't require too much effort to score. Our ideal was to be able to use some screens from the end of the season (league table, best 11, etc...) to determine scoring. With that being said, I'm torn by your proposal because the more complexity we layer the more satisfaction I get out of it, however I fear that it would become such a pain to keep track of your score that we'd all abandon the project.

The idea of winning/losing points for cup wins/loses over higher/lower league competition is a perfect example. I get that we would find extra motivation to push for that win over the premier league team in the FA Cup. Very, very cool idea. The problem is in the tracking. At the end of the season is there an easy way for me to look back at my cup wins/losses and determine how many points I won/lost based on who I played? The answer is obviously 'yes', but is tracking down that info a pain in the ***? I think the answer to that last question might also be a 'yes'.
 
lubizinho said:
One of the goals we had when putting the challenge together was to create a challenge that wouldn't require too much effort to score. Our ideal was to be able to use some screens from the end of the season (league table, best 11, etc...) to determine scoring. With that being said, I'm torn by your proposal because the more complexity we layer the more satisfaction I get out of it, however I fear that it would become such a pain to keep track of your score that we'd all abandon the project.

The idea of winning/losing points for cup wins/loses over higher/lower league competition is a perfect example. I get that we would find extra motivation to push for that win over the premier league team in the FA Cup. Very, very cool idea. The problem is in the tracking. At the end of the season is there an easy way for me to look back at my cup wins/losses and determine how many points I won/lost based on who I played? The answer is obviously 'yes', but is tracking down that info a pain in the ***? I think the answer to that last question might also be a 'yes'.
Click to expand...

tracking down the info might not be as hard as you'd think as when you're on your fixtures screen you can filter it to each individual competition, either that or just screenshot the result of each cup game as it has the teams league next to their name.
 
I am going to make changes to the original post to reflect the following changes:

  • Points from league games will be based on the actual points accrued rather than your final position. This means that you will simply take the points from all of your league games (sum of points from wins/draws) and that will be your score. I've opted not to include goal differential because that could throw off the balance with Opportunists leveraging a move to a huge team to outscore everyone else. Clean sheets have been ommitted as well. Finishing first in your league will still have a bonus. So will finishing in one of the other promotion positions.
  • Cup wins/losses will have the potential to score bonus/penalty points based on your competition. Win a cup game against a higher league team and get 5 points per league up the competition sits. Lose to a lower league team and suffer a 10 point penalty per league lower that team is.
Big credit to Sammy and Paps. Great ideas and I think it will have a positive impact on how this challenge plays out. Look in the first post of this thread for updated PDFs and Screenshots of the scoring system.
 
Your welcome for the suggestions, makes there even more to play for! One more suggestion about the players transfers I think it's slightly harsh, I think in season 1 you could lose 1 point for the first player you sign then 2 for the second player you sign etc. Then the 2nd season could be 2 points for the first player you sign then 3 points for the second player you sign. Or another suggestion for the transfers is we could stick with your current points system ie for the first season 1 point for a player you sign, then instead of adding the 2 for the second player you sign, make it 2 points for those 2 players you sign, then say you sign a 3rd player it would be 4 points deducted from your total?
 
But yeah I'm really getting into this challenge! Unbeaten after 17 games in all competition, top of the league at the moment, and scoring a lot of goals. Perhaps for the goal difference since there's 6 tiers in the English league, in the BSN and BSS you get add all your GD to your points total, but in the Premier League, you have to divide your total GD by 6, then for the Championship divide your GD by 5, League 1 by 4, League 2 by 3, Blue Square Premier by 2.
 
Edits to the scoring, penalties and bonuses have been made in the original post.
 
Hey all,

I've created a spreadsheet that I'll update as people jump into the challenge. The idea is to give everyone an single view into how the participants in the challenge stack up against one another. To make it easy to find I am going to edit the original post of this thread and include a screenshot of the current results near/around the top. Here's what you're looking for:

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If you plan to take part in the challenge please let me know and I'll add you to the spreadsheet. It will be up to each player to provide me with their stats/point totals. As indicated in the original post this system is highly dependent upon the honor system.
 
Season 1 - Lubizinho

Season 1 with Sutton United is in the books. I'm pleased with how the season went, but more importantly I'm pleased with how the scoring system pushed me to value every signing and every game. It definitely added a lot to the playing experience. I put a lot of thought into the number of transfers to make. I paid special attention to each game even deep into the season when promotion was assured. I lived and died with each win and loss. In total I racked up 230 points for the season. Here's how the 230 points were earned:

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The league table above shows how Sutton finished. I picked up 95 points in the league plus an additional 50 points for finishing in first place. I also was named manager of the year which gave me an extra 10 points. I signed four inbound transfers which cost me 15 penalty points. At the end of the season 64% of my fan's best 11 were start-of-game players. That gave me a 90 point loyalty bonus bringing the season total to 230 points.

My first order of business with Sutton was to upgrade the staff. I cut the scouting gimp that came with the team and brought in a couple of new guys with scouting traits in the 10CA/10PA range. That instantly upped my ability to find some players that would make an impact. I also brought in a new assistant coach with better motivational techniques, man-management, and tactical knowledge. As a whole Sutton's coaching staff still sucks at training their players, but at least we can motivate our guys on game day.

After sizing up the team I opted to try to maximize my loyalist bonus in season 1 by keeping the transfers to a minimum. I started the season planning to run a 4-4-2 and a 4-5-1. Knowing which formations I would use helped me organize my priorities as they pertained to transfers. I knew there were certain areas of the park that needed to be upgraded. The most obvious hole was MR. My new scouts told me about an Irish AML named Cronesberry and I liked what I saw in the scouting report. His personality (Model Professional) and positional flexibility (best on the left, but aptitude on the right) led me to believe he could help me address my MR problem. I signed him and immediately started training him to be my MR. Less glaring, but still significant was the a lack of defensive strength at DL and the creative void at MC. I signed a young DL named Lough and an MC named Holt to address those shortcomings. Realizing that I'd need some additional spine in the midfield to pull off the 4-5-1, I made my final signing of the season with a MC/DMC named Comley. All four of these players would be recognized in my fan's best 11 at the end of the season. Holt in particular starred for the team, racking up 20 assists in 44 games. Cronesberry adapted quickly the the right wing. He chipped in 11 goals and 7 assists over 45 games. He was also MoM 5 times putting him even with Taggert (the start-of-game ML).

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I'd hoped to rack up some points in the FA Cup and FA Trophy this season, but despite promising my players a high bonus if they could deliver the hardware we failed to get very far. The good news is that we beat the teams we were supposed to beat. That helped us avoid losing points in an embarrassing cup loss. The bad news is that I didn't go deep enough in either tourney to pick up points. Suck.

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Adding to the stress of the season were some brutal injuries to key players. Leroy, the best striker on the team, kicked off the season with a hat trick. I figured he was going to lead the league in goals, but halfway through the season he went down hard with a torn calf muscle. It was ****** luck given that I could have picked up additional points for having the leading scorer and possibly the player of the year on my team. Leroy only played in 23 of 46 games for me, but ended the season as the team's leading scorer. His loss was going to be felt.

Unfortunately, the injury bug kept hammering Sutton and I didn't have too much time to worry about what might have been. When my new transfer Comley (MC/DMC) went down my ability to control the middle of the pitch was compromised. Making matters worse Riviere couldn't stay healthy. My strength in the midfield was crumbling and with it my hopes for the season.

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From mid-January to mid-February I was struggling to adjust. I avoided defeat, but drew 5 of 7 games over that stretch. The defense gets credit for keeping games close while my second, third and fourth string FC's practiced firing shots at anything but the goal. January to March Sutton only seemed capable of scoring off of set plays. Quite a few times my young DCs picked up the MoM with late-game, heroic headers off of Holt's well placed corner service. By April the team had figured out how to score without Leroy. Riviere was back in regular action and the three-headed FC monster (Dundas, Woods-Garress, and Watkins) had figured out how to score an occasional goal. Sutton didn't drop a single point in April, closing out the season with 5 straight wins on the road to promotion to the Blue Bet Premiere league.

So, I put up a 230 point first season. I'm sure that score can be destroyed and I invite some of you to take a crack at it. I'll be updating the "current standings" screen on the original post with my score. Please let me know if you would like to have your name in lights on that as well.
 
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My first season came in, oddly, very close to yours. It was frustrating at times, which caused a few moves I hadnt planned on, and ended up pretty well. I went through a similar lull to yours were I drew more games than won. My approach was a tad different. I went into the transfers with the idea of having fresh legs and backups for my key players spots. I ended the season up at 225 points but was jipped out of the COTY honors, which would have put me over your mark.

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Here is how I arrived at the following. For the league table, i finished with 96 points and in first place for a total of 146 points. I started the season off with 4 transfers as well, but picked up a GK 2/3's of the way through the season due to some injuries and the fact that I hated Scriven. So, 5 total transfers during the season for a cost of -31 points. That 5th transfer hurt a lot more than I realized is would. Wasn't thinking.

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I left the staff the way it was at first to try and have some continuity, if there is any in this game, with the team. I ended up replacing most of it about 2/3's through the season when I passed through my frustrating times. Brought in a few new coaches to up the star levels and match my playing style as well as bringing in new scouts to the camp.

The gamble with the extra players did pay off a bit when I was able to secure a few FA Cup wins. I made it through 3rd and 4th round qualifying by lower level teams and picked up wins against L2 Accrington for +10 points (2-2 tie then 3-2 home win) and BSP Gateshead for +5 points (1-1 away tie then 4-0 home win). In the FA Trophy, I beat all the teams I was supposed to beat and lost in the first round to BSP Braintree 1-0. No points gained or lost.

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I was able to garner a much better loyalty bonus that I thought i would because the players I brought in were young and being mentored by the good players instead of starting and starring right away. I gained some points back through loyalty and my starting 11 favorites with a 73% bonus of 95 points. 8/11 were original players and only 3 were my signings. Kind of a tricky number because my GK signing was done 2/3's of the way through the season and Scriven was going to get fan favorite no matter what by that time. The 5th player was a back and mentoring student to Taggart and never really started but came on in subsitution a lot to keep Taggart fresh and playing for all of the games instead of having to rest him every so often due to tiredness. It seems like players at this level **** a moan a lot about training too much but get too tired during the games. Probably need to remind myselft that these guys are part-timers and not full-time footballers

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I was lucky to avoid the major injury bug most of the season, but am still ****** that I didn't win COTY. Not only didn't I win COTY, I didn't even place in the top 3, despite winning COTM several times. Those SOB coaches in the BSS can wank off!

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225 points in the first season, BSS Champ, and promotion! Off to the BSP!
 
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