Yeah, I do think that Le Tissier deserves more praise from the media because of the type of loyalty he showed. Maybe Giggs is more loyal than Le Tissier and would have followed ManU into League 1 but we don't know that. But the media goes on and on and on about the loyalty and professionalism of a select few players, and people totally buy it. People think that Giggs and co. are by far the most loyal players in the universe...I'm just pointing out that maybe it's not necessarily true and that there are a lot of other players out there equally as loyal. Also, their loyalty isn't really shocking considering the club they're at. I would be that loyal too if I were in their shoes. Beckham is the perfect example. He gets so much praise from the media for being professional, and people think he's an all-time great just for that, but how many other players are in the game are equally as professional? More importantly, don't we expect that kind of professionalism from the players?
Yeah, Paris Hilton doesn't have a normal profession, nor do any celebrities for that matter. If you think that football players have a normal profession, than you have a messed up idea of the word 'normal.' You're way off point anyway. The point I was making is that football is not a normal profession. If I leave one company for a rival company that pays me more, that's not really considered disloyal. Now if Rooney left for Man City, that would be extremely disloyal to all of his fans and to his club. But you would be OK with that, right? Football is just a business, right? Nothing better should be expected of him, right?
No, they're at the top because usually they're driven egomaniacs who want to earn more money. You don't think they care about profits? Business isn't about winning, it's about profit. Sports and business are two different things, and it's ridiculous to compare the two and only treat the athletes as employees and the fans as consumers. I expect more from a football player than from a normal employee. A normal employee doesn't have a club he is playing for or millions of fans.
Probably the worst dribble I've ever seen on the forum. Thinking like an economist again, aren't we? You seriously think there is no difference between a club and a business? That fans are only "emotionally invested consumers"? Good god, you have a really depressing view of sports. I won't even bother responding to it because it's such a ridiculous statement. All I'll ask you is this: I guess the only thing that matters to you is ManU's balance sheet? That you would trade winning titles for profits? Because that's how businesses operate. McDonald's doesn't give a **** if it wins taste-test contests, it's simply trying to make a profit. That's what businesses do. A club does not try to make a profit. It tries to break even, to balance its finance for the stability of the club (although some don't care). But its ultimate goal is to win trophies. If ManU continually sold all of its best players and never won trophies all for the profits of the owners, that would be a good business policy. I guess you would support that? Obviously there is a business side to the game, but if you think it's only a business and that there is no difference whatsoever between a football club and a normal corporation like the Gap, there's something seriously wrong with you.
As for businesses paying for the education of its employees, how frequent is this? Every once in a blue moon they might pay for someone's college education, or obviously their master's degree if they can benefit from the employee getting that training. Although I've never met anyone who did that, do you honestly think that's the same as bringing a 10 year old kid through the youth team and into the first team? You see no difference? And if even the employer helped out the employee that much, you don't think the employee owes the business any loyalty at all? You can't compare a youth system to a normal business. Normal businesses don't pay for the education of dozens of 10-18 year olds, one or two of whom might have a chance to work for the business. Giggs has been at ManU since he was what, 14? You don't think he owes the club and the fans any more loyalty than a normal employee at some business? You have very low expectations for your club and its players. Guys like Adebayor wouldn't bother you, since they're just typical economic actors? If your club was like City and nothing but mercenaries, that would be OK, wouldn't it, since it's just a business?
Are you ******* serious??? Have you read anything I've written??? The OP perhaps??? I'll spell it out for you in simple terms.
Part 1: Giggs, Xavi, etc. aren't the only players in football who should be praised for being loyal. There are a number of reasons for having to switch clubs: mabe the club sells you because it needs to funds, maybe you want to play in a competitive league, etc. So just because you're not a one club man doesn't mean you don't deserve the credit that the one club men do. Also, that means that just because you're a one club man doesn't mean you're necessarily this amazingly loyal player. For all of the players we've listed, Zanetti, Puyol, etc. it was always in their best interest to stay at their clubs, which are the biggest in the world. Someone who makes a sacrifice, however, to stay and play at their clubs is what shows true loyalty. This would be someone like Le Tissier or John Stockton. It was a lot more common back in the day, but not anymore. But fans simply accept it.
Part 2: loyalty and professionalism, to a certain extent, should be EXPECTED of the players. Guti, for example, was at Real Madrid at age 9. He was completely formed by the club. They trained him and made him into the player that he is today. The fans supported him like crazy. You guys seriously don't think he owes Real Madrid anything? That it would be totally acceptable for him to leave for say, Barcelona, for more money? Since he's simply an employee moving to another firm? As far as professionalism goes, these guys are paid millions and are supported by millions of fans. You don't think they have any obligation to be professional? You don't think that for all that money and support he has given, Guti has any obligation to give it his all and not party every night? You don't think that Craig Bellamy has any obligation whatsoever to behave himself since there are young kids that watch the sport and look up to him?
It seems you have really low expectations of a players' responsibilities. I don't get it, we pay them millions, make them into the players they are today (and if it wasn't for that training, they wouldn't be able to succeed at all), give them fanatical support, and you don't think they have any obligations whatsoever? I don't criticize my manager or my employees. I am professional in the workplace. But I don't deserve to be praised for this. It's expected of me. Now players are not your ordinary employees, they make millions and have the undying support from their fans. You don't expect them to conduct themselves well on and off the football field? You think they should be praised for doing what normal people don't have a problem doing? When Tevez was acting unprofessional at ManU, you weren't bothered by it? You didn't think he had an obligation to be professional since he was paid millions (money that came from the fans) and he had the undying support of the fans and the tradition of other ManU legends to follow?
"Ranting about non-loyal players" was half of my argument. I'm complaining about the utter lack of loyalty in football, and the fact that players like Xavi and Zanetti, who behave as players SHOULD behave, get tons of praise, shows how messed up the climate is. Their attitude and professionalism should be EXPECTED of players who were formed at their clubs and supported by millions of fans. Anyone who isn't like that, such as Adebayor or El Hadji Diouff or whoever, is in the wrong. They aren't normal and their behavior isn't acceptable. It's disgraceful. Players like Maldini, who are loyal and professional, should be the norm. I can't believe you don't agree with me on this.
All of you made very good arguments until this last post, which was utter ****. But Mike and Sunil 'liked' it, which clearly demonstrates that you're not even considering my arguments. You've just decided on an emotional level that I'm wrong and will agree with anyone who disagrees. Since you disagree with me on every point I'm guessing, I'll lay out what you must believe, and then you can tell me with what you disagree with, OK? It would save us all a lot of time.
Part 1:
1. Giggs and Xavi are more loyal than all other players because they are one club men. Scholes, for example, is more loyal to ManU than Beckham because he never left ManU.
2. Giggs and Xavi made a lot of sacrifices to stay at their clubs (maybe you think that earning only 6 million instead of 7 million is a huge sacrifice? or that they wouldn't win many trophies with their clubs)?
3. It wouldn't be extremely desirable to stay at their clubs for all of their careers. So playing your entire career at ManU or Barca and constantly collecting trophies wouldn't be awesome. It would be better to leave for a smaller club? To a different country where you're not admired and where you'll be discarded eventually, and you might not be welcome back at your old club? To be an icon of a huge club?
4. There is no difference whatsoever between Le Tissier's loyalty and Zanetti's loyalty. Although Zanetti left Talleres and Banfield for Inter, as big as any club in the world, it's just the same to be loyal to Inter than it is to bag tons of goals for Southampton and turn down offers from much bigger teams. Le Tissier has shown no more proof that he is loyal than Zanetti has (not whether or not one is more loyal than the other, I'm talking about proof of loyalty). We should talk about Zanetti more in the media for his loyalty than Le Tissier's. Even though there are other players who are professional and loyal (or maybe you think there aren't?), we should only pick a few favorites and praise them incessantly. Gary Neville is a perfect example. He just retired, and we should treat him as if he's one of the only loyal, professional players in the game...that he is the most loyal, professional player of our era (aside from Giggs and Scholes). I guess loyalty and professionalism are easy to measure.
Part 2:
1. Loyalty should not be expected of players. Even though they were formed by the club from a young age onwards with the youth system, the club making a huge investment in them along the way that had a low chance of paying off, even though the fans support them undyingly, even though they are paid millions, they should not be expected to be loyal to their clubs and fans. If they are, it's a huge bonus, and they should be praised incessantly by the media for it.
2. Professionalism should not be expected of players. Even though they are paid millions, are celebrities, have the image of the club at stake, and have thousands of young adoring fans who want to be them and imitate them, they have no obligation whatsoever to act professionally. If they are professional, meaning they always do what they're asked and work hard, maintain clean and dignified conduct, and don't criticize their manager and fellow players, it's a huge bonus and they should be praised incessantly by the media for it. Oh, and Beckham is by far the most professional player in the world, just like the media says.
