Need help with inconsistent 4-3-1-2 tactic

[suvirj]

Hi!

FM 16 is my first FM game ever. Absolutely loving it so far. But I need help with tweaking a tactic that is becoming pretty inconsistent results-wise.

I play with Liverpool and trying to get a solid 2-striker formation working.

Some screenshots of my tactical instructions and the team.

View attachment 181351View attachment 181350

My major issues with this tactic -

• Works really well (mostly) against mid-table and below teams. Fails against better teams.
• Absolutely terrible in attacking 4-2-3-1. On my save, Arsenal and Spurs play 4-2-3-1 and I can manage a draw at best.
• Very susceptible to crosses. Nearly 50% of my goals conceded are from crosses alone.
• Seems too dependent on performance of fullbacks. When both my main FBs were injured, there was a run of draws for couple of weeks.Btw, I normally play with both FBs set to Automatic. That is not the case for the RB in the screenshot.

Results-wise, I guess I am doing just alright.

• 5th in league in January end - 1 point behind 4th.
• Knockout stages of Europa
• 6th round of FA cup

What concerns me is the inconsistent results. It works amazing in some games and goes to **** in others. I would demolish bournemouth 6-1 or defeat chelsea 3-0 sometimes. At other times, I would hardly create any chance and get comprehensively beaten by a team playing .

What am I doing wrong? Are the instructions overdoing it? Are the players the wrong fit?

 

[WJ]

Mentality?

The biggest concern would be the large gap between defence and midfield due to you not having anyone to protect the back 4 - defend duty, holding midfielder. You'll be giving opposition AMCs and anyone else operating in that area a lot of space.

 

[suvirj]

Sorry, mentality is Standard. My squad is fluid with all aspects of the tactic for a long time.

I see your point about the big gap. In some of my good games, I set one of the mid fielders to DLP-De and did not notice any major issues.

I have experimented with playing one of the 3 AMs as a DM. Still gave away goals to crosses and in general, the results were slightly worse.

 

[suvirj]

I am trying get my team to play kind of like Ancelotti's Milan sides

In that spirit, I did try moving my 2 FB to WB but the defence could not keep up.

Kind of like this

View attachment 181340

Except, with a front 2.

 

[WJ]

I am trying get my team to play kind of like Ancelotti's Milan sides

In that spirit, I did try moving my 2 FB to WB but the defence could not keep up.

Kind of like this

View attachment 1019286

Except, with a front 2.

Your fullbacks, quite rightly, should be at DR/DL and not WBR/WBL. You need to remember that in FM, the formation is your defensive shape, while in the media you'll either see an average position or most likely the attacking formation.

Pirlo there is quite clearly a lot more reserved than the other midfielders.

 

[WJ]

I see your point about the big gap. In some of my good games, I set one of the mid fielders to DLP-De and did not notice any major issues.

Exactly. If you don't have someone covering the space 'in the hole' you can get slaughtered in games.

You don't have to use a DM (although it is a good defensive move at the expense of immediate attacking threat) but even a Defend duty CM (not a BWM) like you have done will help. It not only covers the space in the hole generally, but during attacks, the Defend duty midfielder will stay behind play to protect against counter attacks and also be a safe passing option if there's a lot of pressure on the other midfielders.

 

[Dobrin]

This is my favorite formation too. I played this with Southampton and Liverpool, but isn't the single tactic used along the whole season. My findings are quite the same, it is a very good formation for playing against weaker teams. And yes, your fullbacks are very influential. If they defend bad, they will permit opposition's wingers to cross and if they pass wrong or cross badly, they don't help the attack. I would say that this formation works well only with very good pacey, good crossing fullbacks.

I use for the midfielder, in the center, Ball Wining with Defend duty or Central Midfielder with Defend duty. For this position I use Leiva, Emre Can or Joe Allen. Also, I used different roles for strikers. I've experimented a lot with partnership stopper - cover, stopper - defend, for center backs and my conclusion is that both center backs should be Central Defender with Defend duty.

Against stronger teams I restrain both fullbacks to defend duty and I set them to cross often from deep. Sometimes I assign both lateral center midfielders to mark the opponent's fullbacks, especially if they are good at crossing.

 

[suvirj]

Against stronger teams I restrain both fullbacks to defend duty and I set them to cross often from deep. Sometimes I assign both lateral center midfielders to mark the opponent's fullbacks, especially if they are good at crossing.

So, using 4-3-1-2 but setting fullbacks to cross from deep, you were able to score goals against stronger teams?

Were you able to figure out a way to dominate the midfield against teams that play 4-2-3-1?

 

[vjcsmoke]

I feel that you need a defensive midfielder. Some people even like to use a halfback.
I'm not a fan of the halfback but at the very least you need a player who is positionally in the "hole" or you will get killed by the AMC/SS who sits in the hole.

I also feel that two CF is overdoing it. I'd give one of the strikers a complementary role. Perhaps a DLF who comes back deep to get the ball in case your AP did not get the initial pass into the attacking 3rd. More passing options is good.

 

[Dobrin]

So, using 4-3-1-2 but setting fullbacks to cross from deep, you were able to score goals against stronger teams?

Were you able to figure out a way to dominate the midfield against teams that play 4-2-3-1?

I used fullbacks with defend duty to stop conceding. Usually, the opposition counter-attack surprise me with fullbacks in advanced positions and sometimes their wingers could cross and their strikers scored, or their inside forward attacked directly the goal. Setting defend duty for full backs let you no other option but cross from deep. Of course, cross from deep seems to be less effective for increasing chance of scoring, but sometimes you can get out of defensive very quickly and surprise the opponent.

I never tried to dominate the midfield. I don't care about domination or possession. I try to score or to not concede. Against stronger team that play 4231 I wasn't worry about their positional attack, but by their ability to execute swift and deadly counter-attacks.

I haven't enough patience to test and to resolve this problem, so I gave up and I play a different tactic against stronger teams which play 4231. If I play away I use Deadly Circle Counter, if I play at home I use Tweebier 2233 control version.