Neville calls England career 'waste of time'
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The bold. You dont know that. Fact. Annoys me when people say this. You are not mind readers, you are not psychologists, the players have never said this, they have in fact said the contrary. Why do people keep bringing this up like its fact?
Reason this Neville comment caught my eye and why I went off on a comparison...
Zambrotta/Grosso/Maldini have said playing for Italy was the ultimate honour and they would sacrifice their bodies to win for the Azzurri. Compare that to ex England players comments like Neville it is clear there is a difference. Difference could be Neville has never won anything but there has to be something to the idea that the perception players hold playing for the English NT is completely different to the perception to their NT counter parts in Spain/Italy.
Let's not get too bogged down so often, Wembley stadium is the biggest modern stadia in Europe with state of the art everything. But there is clearly a massive flaw somewhere in English football, be it the fans divide/Players divide/Coaching/Something.
Zambrotta/Grosso/Maldini have said playing for Italy was the ultimate honour and they would sacrifice their bodies to win for the Azzurri. Compare that to ex England players comments like Neville it is clear there is a difference. Difference could be Neville has never won anything but there has to be something to the idea that the perception players hold playing for the English NT is completely different to the perception to their NT counter parts in Spain/Italy.
Let's not get too bogged down so often, Wembley stadium is the biggest modern stadia in Europe with state of the art everything. But there is clearly a massive flaw somewhere in English football, be it the fans divide/Players divide/Coaching/Something.
I never said they should be excused if they do it. I just said I don't feel much sympathy for the players when they complain about it. Fellow fans should be the ones to tell them to be easier on the players.
there are flaws everywhere. Right from the top. The biggest part is that we NEVER look forward. Even now we are hung on 2010 and obsessed with 66. ******* ****, move on for the next one and lets do better.
Even if they play well, the media hypes them up beyond belief so that we're 'WC contenders', and then we'll just ridicule the moment they (inevitably) fail to meet the new expectations. And how can you tell they don't care? Because they're paid millions for "doing nothing" because they don't sing the national anthem? Because they lose? Considering the tabloid media have questionable intelligence at the best of time, I'd be highly surprised if they've suddenly become such Gods of the psychological field they can perform a complex analysis of a person's psychological state just by watching them for 90 minutes.
Yes, it angers many of us when the players don't look like they don't want to be there. That's not to say there's no problems on the media side of the game (I say media because it's mainly the tabloids that influence general public consensus), there's major problems on both sides, and ignoring it (You get paid millions, go win us a world cup) isn't going to solve it. Against Switzerland Wilshere was probably the only player on the pitch who looked determined and passionate to win that game, no doubt it won't be long before we've sapped that enthusiasm from him though.
Tabloid journalists are talentless, worthless cretins who seem to enjoy wielding the power they have to flame those more talented and successful than they ever were.
Can't know it for sure but it seems pretty obvious at times. You can tell by their body language and how hard they work. I'm thinking of Lampard and Gerrard in particular. And I have seen Rooney look lazier than he usually is at times. At ManU he is such a workhorse but he isn't always like that for the English NT.
Shockhorror.
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Do you expect the West Ham fans to cheer for him or something? Fans do this to wind players up. Rooney has a temper and often reacts to it. He reacted by swearing in the camera, which gives fans more reason to abuse him. I'm not saying it'a justified, but he's still giving them more ammunition to do so.
But even if you're a model professional, top players tend to get the most abuse, obviously because they're the threat. Same applies for the top teams - they're always the most hated. Players have to take abuse on the chin because no matter what happens, it's never going to stop, and they're aware of that.
You sure? He gets paid £6m a year, I thought that justified everything that gets thrown at you?
Rooney covers virtually the same ground as he does with United (with the exceptions of the world cup and following games where he was still recovering) Lampard and Gerrard play different roles to their club games, and gerrard covers plenty of ground, he's just doesnt play too well, (not his fault, he is often shoehorned into a positon thats not his best or favourite). If anything Gerrard needs to run about less
He normally does, week in week out. the few times he doesn't keep it in check and he gets vilified? what?
Not aimed at you i just get wound up at some of the arguments. Especially that we wont look forwards
forget 2010, lets qualify for 2012. Lets be more confident and play much better as players and less cunty as fans :wub:
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2011
lol im talking about the 2010 world cup
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Part of being a footballer/in the spotlight. They pick you up on everything. Not all a bed of roses.
The media in England does really suck but doesn't it everywhere? My advice to the players would be to simply not read the tabloids. That's just what you do if you're a professional athlete or a celebrity. Not that hard. And being in a country with fans and media who put extra pressure on you doesn't justify a lack of effort or give you much of a reason to complain. Mostly it comes with the territory of playing in a country that spends a tremendous amount on football. And I think the fans do have plenty of reason to complain, since the '06 WC England has been awful. Not qualifying for the 08 Euro and the last WC's performance was embarassing.
I agree with you all that the pressure/climate in England is ridiculous and that it should be changed but I'd rather hear this from the fans and not the players. When the players come out and say things like 'playing for England was a waste of time' and complain about the pressure I just have a really hard time sypmathizing with them.
see my post again i edited it
If the England manager complained than I would be very ****** if I were English (on account of his salary). However, that doesn't mean I'd take the job. Being manager of a team is a job, but if you're a player, playing for the NT is in many ways a duty.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree; I wouldn't characterize some of the players on the English NT as being very passionate about playing for England. Oh, and it's more than just covering ground, it's a mental thing too. My coach said that to us when we played. Don't just run around a lot to justify your performance ("but I tracked back and worked hard coach"), you have to have the passion and desire buring in you when you play. You have to have drive and focus. When some players don't seem to show this on the NT as much as they do in their club careers, it ****** off a lot of fans, and I don't blame them for being ****** off or booing them at times. And if I were drunk and very angry at Wembley when England lost 2-3 to Croatia in 08 I probably would've shouted my lungs out with insults at them. Probably would've been a bit unfair to the players but I can understand that type of behavior and I wouldn't have a lot of sympathy for the players if they complained about it.
Gary Neville was one of the hardest working, most determined players we had. He may not have been the most technically accomplished in the side, but he more than made up for that in sheer effort and determination. When he says something like that, we should probably take heed and listen because it's pretty **** indicative of a symptomatic problem in our sport, rather than just knock it off that he's just some overpaid idiot.
A lot of our problems stem from tactics as well. We refuse to drop either Lampard/Gerrard, they don't work well together - Force them to compete and fight for their place, it'll work off better. You don't see Spain forcing Fabregas into the team, being afraid to drop Torres etc. We're crying out for a play maker yet we shunned one of the greatest ever in Paul Scholes, we're obsessed with playing directly, we're a nation where a meaty challenge means more than a passing move through the defence. We have extremely talented passers of the ball throughout our midfield, plus Rooney, yet we insist on bypassing the midfield.
Sorry, but I just cannot boo an England player. Yeah they get paid a big pile of cash, but who's fault is that? The majority of players don't ask for stupid amounts of cash, it gets offered. And if they are offered it, why shouldn't they accept it? They're not the ones who wanted to be labelled "the golden generation", and be plied with an enormous amount of pressure just like that-especially the younger ones.
And if they play **** on the international stage, is it necessarily their fault? They're picked by the England boss, so they try their best, even though they probably realise it won't be enough. And even if they try their best, they still don't have the quality. And like I've mentioned before, some are played in a position that doesn't utilise their best position (like Rodwell at Everton). Sometimes through choice by the manager, sometimes because of an injury to the better player in that situation. Take little old me. I slag Barry off for playing pants half the time, because I don't think he's got it at international level. But I wouldn't boo him during a match-because it would do no good (and because he can't hear through a tv set). He's trying....but it's just not working out.
There's simply a lot of things that need to be taken into consideration, but for some reason they aren't.
And if they play **** on the international stage, is it necessarily their fault? They're picked by the England boss, so they try their best, even though they probably realise it won't be enough. And even if they try their best, they still don't have the quality. And like I've mentioned before, some are played in a position that doesn't utilise their best position (like Rodwell at Everton). Sometimes through choice by the manager, sometimes because of an injury to the better player in that situation. Take little old me. I slag Barry off for playing pants half the time, because I don't think he's got it at international level. But I wouldn't boo him during a match-because it would do no good (and because he can't hear through a tv set). He's trying....but it's just not working out.
There's simply a lot of things that need to be taken into consideration, but for some reason they aren't.