No mutiny at Villa - McAllister

[Matty]

Good point, derbies can be very unpredictable. I get where you're coming from but the derby loss really annoyed their fans, who were used to winning before he came.

True, derby losses are frustrating. Although i dont think it is really Houllier's fault that we have pegged them back over this season, we have gotten a lot stronger as a side since Big Eck took charge.

For instance last season although Villa beat us in both games, most honest villa fans will admit we didn't deserve to lose either of them, and if anything deserved to win at least one of them! Us turning the tide on that record was slowly coming to fruition and was only a matter of time.

If we can manage to scrape survival which Im still confidentISH that we can do, then its another season in the PL with a trophy in out mitts, and build on the squad once more.

I think the real frustration at Villa is, overall they are used to being a way above average team in the PL and under MON they were a TOP side, competing with Man City and Spurs last season for most of the season, which is no easy task with the financial difference!
Now they look a shadow of themselves and its a real big bite of a reality sandwich when teams like Wolves out play them on their own pitch...

 

[FMRocco]

Steve Sidwell - 6 mil (50k p/w)
Nigel Reo-Coker - 8.5 mil
Emile Heskey - 3.5 mil (50k p/w)
Moustapha Salifou - Over a million (4.5 k p.w, but NEVER EVER STARTS)

That's just four. Not to mention the archaic training methods (players given two days off a week) and lack of squad rotation: average amount of players started under him over a season was 14.

On the face of it, MON was great. When you delve below that, he debilitated us.

What has the price and wage of a player got to do with MON's managerial ability? This is real life, not Football manager, and so the 'gaffer' has nothing to do with fees and wages. Sidwell and Coker are obviously a bit ****, i give you that, but i can see why he bought in Heskey.

All i'm saying is that he compiled a talented, young squad and had a real go and cracking that top four, got them playing some good footy and so on. His squad rotation policy was pretty bad, but if you have much poorer players in reserve then i can understand why he was not willing to play them. If given a couple more seasons and some funds to replace Barry/Milner properly, i think he could have done well. Houllier cannot do better than this man, he just blames everyone else.

 

[GodCubed]

What has the price and wage of a player got to do with MON's managerial ability? This is real life, not Football manager, and so the 'gaffer' has nothing to do with fees and wages. Sidwell and Coker are obviously a bit ****, i give you that, but i can see why he bought in Heskey.

Er... what? Of course it has something to do with his managerial ability. He bought them, he decided they were worth their wages (which they obviously weren't). Who else bought them? Randy Lerner, our American chairman who when he arrived admitted he had no clue about football?

All i'm saying is that he compiled a talented, young squad and had a real go and cracking that top four, got them playing some good footy and so on. His squad rotation policy was pretty bad, but if you have much poorer players in reserve then i can understand why he was not willing to play them. If given a couple more seasons and some funds to replace Barry/Milner properly, i think he could have done well. Houllier cannot do better than this man, he just blames everyone else.

Bolded part tells me that you know absolutely nothing about Villa under O'Neill. We had one of the worst styles of football in the entire Prem: O'Neills tactics were a rigid counterattacking 4-4-2, hoof it up to Carew and then get Gabby to run at the opposition.

Why do you think we had poorer players in reserve? Because O'Neill didn't buy any when he had available funds, because he liked small squads. Besides, we had decent rotational players. Lerner was fed up with MONs reckless spending and wage management, and rightly so. So he restricted his budget and MON threw a strop.

 

[Joss]

So tempted to back into all of this again (for the 3rd time?) with GC, but I'll refrain as I have work to do..

I'd like to see Houiller given more of a chance, but I suspect that whatever happens come the end of the season, bar a remarkable, but not entirely impossible turn around in fortunes - he'll be sacked.. Odd that his fortunes seem the reverse to those of Hodgson - brilliant at Fulham, ***** at Liverpool. (Exchange VIlla for Fulham)

---------- Post added at 04:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:25 PM ----------

Why do you think we had poorer players in reserve? Because O'Neill didn't buy any when he had available funds, because he liked small squads. Besides, we had decent rotational players. Lerner was fed up with MONs reckless spending and wage management, and rightly so. So he restricted his budget and MON threw a strop.

This 100% - So glad that Lerner stood up to MON and told him what to do if he was going to throw a tantrum.

 

[FMRocco]

Er... what? Of course it has something to do with his managerial ability. He bought them, he decided they were worth their wages (which they obviously weren't). Who else bought them? Randy Lerner, our American chairman who when he arrived admitted he had no clue about football?

Why do you think we had poorer players in reserve? Because O'Neill didn't buy any when he had available funds, because he liked small squads. Besides, we had decent rotational players. Lerner was fed up with MONs reckless spending and wage management, and rightly so. So he restricted his budget and MON threw a strop.

Lol, it's as i said mate, what has spending and wage management got anything to do with O'Neill? This is not Football Manager- meaning, managers in real life have **** all to do with contract and fee negotiations. Meaning, yes, it is Randy Lerner who bought them, decided to pay those wages and fees. You are implying that MON is accountable for the wages these players earn! Reckless spending? MON, or any managers, says i want this player, the board negotiate. Reckless spending....lol. £9m for Ashley Young, £12m for Milner. Anyway that's besides the point. I think you need to differentiate between FM and real life.

Bolded part tells me that you know absolutely nothing about Villa under O'Neill. We had one of the worst styles of football in the entire Prem: O'Neills tactics were a rigid counterattacking 4-4-2, hoof it up to Carew and then get Gabby to run at the opposition.

I'm not the Villa fan so obviously i'm going on MOTD and matches i saw under MON. They always seemed like a daring attacking unit. But of course i will concede that i don't know about this.

But, he did get Villa into 2 or 3 6th placed finishes, which is a good record. Ged will not be able to better this. Waste of ******* space that manager. IMO.

 

[GodCubed]

Lol, it's as i said mate, what has spending and wage management got anything to do with O'Neill? This is not Football Manager- meaning, managers in real life have **** all to do with contract and fee negotiations. Meaning, yes, it is Randy Lerner who bought them, decided to pay those wages and fees. You are implying that MON is accountable for the wages these players earn! Reckless spending? MON, or any managers, says i want this player, the board negotiate. Reckless spending....lol. £9m for Ashley Young, £12m for Milner. Anyway that's besides the point. I think you need to differentiate between FM and real life.

No, you're wrong. You think managers have no say on how much a player is bought for? You think chairmen buy all the managers? Why would they be given a transfer budget if they weren't? Why would there be such an uproar over someone like Abramovich buying Shevchenko behind Mourinho's back if the manager had nothing to do with fee and contract negotiations?

Randy Lerner knew absolutely nothing about British football, and specifically signed a domestically-based manager to do the business he knew nothing of. Martin O'Neill is the MANAGER. Who else is going to make the signings which they know nothing about? Randy Lerner and Charles Krulak? More to the point, why would MON throw such a tantrum if he never had any control over transfers in the first place?

Yes, reckless spending. For every good buy you can name, I can name a ******* terrible piece of transfer business MON did, although APPARENTLY as he had NOTHING to do with the transfers he shouldn't take any credit at all for getting Young or Milner, right?

I named four earlier, and I can keep going. Ashley Young and Milner were great bits of business, but Heskey, Sidwell, Salifou, NRC, Habib Beye, Curtis Davies, Zat Knight, Marlon Harewood, letting Mellberg go on a free, letting Gary Cahill and Steven Davis go for pittances: all of these were truly shocking decisions.

I'm not the Villa fan so obviously i'm going on MOTD and matches i saw under MON. They always seemed like a daring attacking unit. But of course i will concede that i don't know about this.

Yeah, you're wrong.

But, he did get Villa into 3 or 3 6th placed finishes, which is a good record. Ged will not be able to better this. Waste of ******* space that manager. IMO.

Oh, well done. If you'd read what I've been saying in this thread alone, you agree with me.

 

[*Paul*]

No, you're wrong. You think managers have no say on how much a player is bought for? You think chairmen buy all the managers? Why would they be given a transfer budget if they weren't? Why would there be such an uproar over someone like Abramovich buying Shevchenko behind Mourinho's back if the manager had nothing to do with fee and contract negotiations?

Randy Lerner knew absolutely nothing about British football, and specifically signed a domestically-based manager to do the business he knew nothing of. Martin O'Neill is the MANAGER. Who else is going to make the signings which they know nothing about? Randy Lerner and Charles Krulak? More to the point, why would MON throw such a tantrum if he never had any control over transfers in the first place?

Yes, reckless spending. For every good buy you can name, I can name a ******* terrible piece of transfer business MON did, although APPARENTLY as he had NOTHING to do with the transfers he shouldn't take any credit at all for getting Young or Milner, right?

I named four earlier, and I can keep going. Ashley Young and Milner were great bits of business, but Heskey, Sidwell, Salifou, NRC, Habib Beye, Curtis Davies, Zat Knight, Marlon Harewood, letting Mellberg go on a free, letting Gary Cahill and Steven Davis go for pittances: all of these were truly shocking decisions.



Yeah, you're wrong.



Oh, well done. If you'd read what I've been saying in this thread alone, you agree with me.

You're clearly drunk/demented .

 

[GodCubed]

You're clearly drunk/demented .

Dammit, I always get like this when I'm drunk. I always start thinking that football managers actually, you know, MANAGE teams...