NoS - 4231 [Mourinho Counter] - BETA

Djibril Cisse

Djibril Cisse

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***FBs needs to be good in defencive abilities (positioning, tackling, marking) and quick to cover wide areas.
***CBs at least 12 pace/acc and descent teamwork,decisions,concentration,anticipation(to play offside)
DM is a classic DM but he must be at least descent in passing, technique, composure.
MCs needs Box 2 Box attributes. (strength,positioning,passing etc)
Ws again classic Wingers, must be hard workers, teamwork and finishing is a huge plus.
ST better to be a F9 type. Quick, good in finishing and creating chances.

***In defence corners put your stronger and tallest players, one on near post, one on 6 yard (if you dont have one for there, put someone with good anticipation) and one on mark tall.
If the close down corner player is also tall is a plus.
Put your good markers but not tall to mark small.

***In attack corners put again your tallest/stronger players to Attack Near, Near Flick On, Challenge keeper. Players who are in Far Post doesnt matter to be tall, they are decoys. Your best attacking player of the two BBMs, Lurk outside.

***Set GK distribution to your FB that has the best pass, technique, composure, decisions etc

***Learn your front three to play one-two. Know your players ppms and use common sense if you have to use them and where.

BE DEMANDIND FROM YOUR PLAYERS. AGGRESSIVELY IN EASY MATCHES, CALMLY IN HARD.

USE THE ROOT TACTIC TO CREATE ANOTHER TWO. ONE WITH ATTACKING MENTALITY AND FULL BACKS SET ON ATTACK, AND ANOTHER DEFENSIVE MENTALITY PLUS WASTE TIME. HAVENT TESTED THOSE, BUT HAVE THEM READY TO GET FLUID FOR USE.

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Philosophy

Mourinho's and Simeone's was what i had in mind. Sit deep, defend hard and quick counter when time is right.

Players

Goalkeeper : Best you can get
DRLs : Positioning, Pace, Acceleration, Marking, Tackling
Better not to have Get Forward PM
DCs : Positioning, Jumping, Heading, Anticipation, Tackling, Marking, Strength
DMs : Positioning, Marking, Tackling, Passing, Strength
AMRLs : Typical quick dribblers. Finishing or/and any defending attributes will be better.
Better to have One-Two PM.
AMC : Passing, Creativity, Composure, Technique, First Touch, Teamwork.
Try Killer Balls often PM will help a lot.
ST : QUICK. Very Important. With slow ST the tactic will be toothless.

Training

Tactics [Average] | More Match --X--- Less Match | Teamwork

OIs

Included (credits to TotalFootballFan9)

Teamtalks

Easy Match : /pre match/ Nothing - /half time/ (if win) Dont get careless (***) (if loosing or drawing) Not happy (***)

Hard Match : /pre match and half time/ No pressure (Calm)

Set Pieces

Corners/Free Kicks : Jassar
Throw ins, mine. Set your AMR to take LEFT throws and your AML to take right.


Stats.

GK (Kapino) Games 39 Conceeded 23 (half of them Set Pieces and Penalties) Clean Sheets 24
ST (Carlos Adriano de Sousa Cruz) Games 39 Goals 26 Assists 11
AMC (Federico Freire) Games 22 Goals 5 Assists 10
AML (Nikos Korovesis, he is a Greek CWB) Games 38 Goals 9 Assists 13
AMR (Fabinho 23 CWB, playes at Londrina) Games 29 Goals 6 Assists 10

Shots per game : (you)11.6 - (AI)10.4
CCCs per game : 2.5 - 1.2
Half Chances per game : 2.8 - 2.4

Notes

***Be carefull when using players with low MATCH fitness. It is crucial, it can loose you games.
***The two alternative tactics are for only SPECIAL occasions. Need a goal or want to shut stop.
***You can tick Retain Possesion when you score. Sometimes i did, dont know if it makes any difference.
***Genie Scout (or editor) should be used if you dont want to frustrate yourself with injuries. Try to buy players with low Injury Proneness attribute, it is crucial. Especially if your Striker and AMC are injurie prone you will be destroyed as AI tackles hard to them.
...to be continued.

Tactic isnt complete, any tweaks will be appreciated.
I am testing with Panathinaikos, anyone who has time can test with an "Everton" style of team.


Links

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Final is the standard one, ( A ) the attack and ( D ) the Contain one.
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Had the same problem: You have to rename the tactic-file and delete the brackets in the filename.
 
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Second season my striker got injured and i have to use my backup who has acceleration and agility 11.

I have the second best defence in league after 10 games but third worst attack :S
That injurie cost me many points. I am 5th with 5 wins 2 draws 3 loses.

When i used as striker my AML backup who is quick (16 pace, 15 acc, 13 agility) won 4-1.

STRIKER MUST BE QUICK, if everyone wants to try the tactic.

In Europa League i have in 4 matches 1 win (APOEL) 3 draws (Liverpool, Feyenord, APOEL), 4 goals 1 conceeded.
 
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Wide players, even when played as Inside Forwards (inverted wingers, the one Mourinho prefers) would press and work defensively if you use "hassle opponents" instruction and especially "drop deep", I had Hazard tracking back without playing as LM or Defensive winger, normal IF.

Defensive winger work defensively and whip in crosses, Jose Mourinho doesn't play wingers like that.

I've created both Mourinho and Simeone's tactics this season. Also, Mourinho has been playing counter-attacking only in tough games and away games this season, not all of them. If you want there's a proper analysis of Simeone's tactics in this post, however it's a tactical preview of the match (snorefest) that happened.

I have based my version of Simeone's tactics purely upon this analysis.

Atletico Madrid vs. Chelsea: Tactical Preview - We Ain't Got No History
 
What a great article this is.

Did you have success with the Simeone tactic?

Half of my joy for this game is implementing those kind of philosophy but unfortunatelly in this version of the game this is so difficult (i think).

A very quick translation of the article into TC would be like this.

GK

DR FBa Run Wide with Ball, Close Down More, Ease Off (or Hard?)
DL the same
DC CDc Hold Position, Tackle Harder, Mark Tighter
DC the same

MR WMa Cut Inside, Sit Narrower, Dribble More, Get Further Forward, Ease Off (to press with the FB the opponent with the ball the article says)
ML the same
MC CMs Close Down Less (to be the third man behind the two wide ones that marks/presses. On the other hand this conflicts with the hard press CMs are making to CENTRAL opponent players), Get Further Forward (the one CM that is a little more attacking), Tackle Harder, Mark Tighter.
MC CMd. Same PIs exept the Get Further Forward. (the conver thing could maybe work by setting him close down less and the other close down more)

ST DFd (the only role i think that will drove the striker in the middle area to mark) Move Into Chanells, and maybe Run wide with ball
ST the same.

Very Rigid - Attacking

Much Deeper, More Direct, Play Out of Defence, Work ball Into Box, Exploit the Flanks, Look for Overlap, Higher Tempo, Be More Disciplined, Drill Crosses, Play Narrower, Run At Defence.

Maybe it is possible to create something like this that actually will work. Maybe with a set of PIs and OIs.
ST DFd
 
my favourite 4231formation favourite counter style of play and defensive wingers which are best... i will start a new save tommorrow after work with some underdog team this tac will suit perfect for some low team
 
Djibril Cisse said:
What a great article this is.

Did you have success with the Simeone tactic?

Half of my joy for this game is implementing those kind of philosophy but unfortunatelly in this version of the game this is so difficult (i think).
Click to expand...

I have had success with that tactic so far, but I only use it in away games, especially tough ones. I also have created Rodgers' Liverpool tactics but haven't managed to replicate the level of scoring, except when opposition comes attacking in which case I have feeding frenzy on the break.

A very quick translation of the article into TC would be like this.

Maybe it is possible to create something like this that actually will work. Maybe with a set of PIs and OIs.
ST DFd
Click to expand...

If we're only talking about Simeone's tactics, they are purely counter-attacking for me as he concedes possession willingly for positional advantage, denying the space and pressing immensely, then hitting on the counter.

I opted for slightly different formation though, 4-4-1-1 in TC but they still play like 4-4-2 as the CAM is slightly left and ST is on the right side. What my tactic lacks is aerial target like Costa is.

GK

DR/DL - FB(Au) - Close Down More
CBs - I have kept one on stopper duty the other on defend, as Miranda seems more aggressive in Atleti's pairing. Hold position doesn't sit well when it comes to CBs for me, that's why I always look for the ones with good decision making.

From the article - "Both centrebacks are aggressive when the ball is played into their zone, and will look to dart in front of opposition attackers to win the ball."

LM/RM - That I have exactly same maybe without the dribble more instruction because my wingers already have "runs with ball often" PPMs. And "Ease of tackles" is a very nice suggestion, I actually don't have that but I'll sure add it now. Although I do have LM on attack and RM on support but that's because of my CMs being totally different to yours.

CMs - BWM (support/defend) and Box to box midfielder. With tackle harder, these will go sliding in challenges, winning the ball and it'll fk up pressing, for me, so I leave this untouched. With proper training from about 2015 in every save, the "Hassle opponents" instruction works wonders, idk what it is but after a couple of seasons, it starts working how I'd want it to.

I actually just realized I haven't given my CMs any personal instructions, woot woot. I do realize the CMs won't work exactly as Simeone's with the BWM as he will not look to stay off, but win the ball but it does seem to work perfectly even if it defies theoretical explanation, when I watch the game.

AM(Attack) - This guy, being an AM helps defensively too but also shoots as opposed to a playmaker and trequartista doesn't work hard defensively. Also pushes further up the field like a striker when your team is attacking. Again, no personal instructions as AM automatically moves in channels and coses down, as opposed to AP.

ST - Advanced Forward, this is slightly more hard working version of poacher, also helps in build up as opposed to poachers who focus solely on scoring. Diego Costa fits perfectly in this role with excellent of the ball movement, in channels. Advanced forward doesn't need "Run wide with ball" instruction as it will look to cross after catching a ball wide anyway but doesn't need to run wide with it.

You could say that's now how forward players do as you've opted for defensive forwards but I feel the mentality and instructions make up for it and they do look to press when I watch the matches. Defensive forward would be more defensive less offensive, which is not what Costa performs, that'd be more like harassers like Kiessling or Mandzukic. It's a bonus to have forward which has PPMs "Moves into channels", "Tries first time shots"

Very Rigid - Counter

Shorter passing, pass into space, Run at defence, Look for overlap, Play narrower, Drop deeper/much deeper, Higher tempo and of course, Hassle opponents. I also have "get stuck in" being trained in another slot.

Now one could argue short passing is horrible idea on counter-attack and Atleti doesn't look to retain possession at all, but with no specific player instruction to play short passes, and my BWM and BBM have 17+ passing and both have "Tries long range passes" PPM, and "pass in space" is more creative so it makes it a mix of both, very well and not giving up passes in dangerous position directly to the opposition.

As the article would say "When the ball is turned over, Atletico look to play forward very quickly -- that doesn?t mean they go long, though, and they?ll often work the ball out from the back with a series of short, rapid passes. "

Now, the playing out of defence. I realize that theoretically, without "Play out of defence" the defence would look to lunge long balls forward but I don't feel my defenders do that much, but they more often than not choose to pass to the player forward to them instead of passing sideways to defenders, fullbacks and goalkeepers, which is more beneficial when retaining possession and playing like Pep.

And this is A LOT helped by the other instruction of "shorter passing", with more direct passing/route one defenders would look to play long balls forward.
 
I realize this is "Mourinho center" and not "Simeone center" but check this out.

I faced Barcelona in CL QFs, playing as Chelsea. Faced them last season too and dispatched 6-1 on aggregate. (1-3, 3-0). But this time they had Messi in better form, Neymar reaching his prime and firing all cylinders, some kind of real defenders (Vertonghen and Pique).

I did make some changed to my 4-4-2 according to your suggestions (ease of tackles to LM and FB) and also changed role of Fullbacks from Automatic to support and both CBs on "defend" role.

View attachment 391256

Fernando Muslera (Barcelona's goalkeeper) had a blinder and kept them in this tie. They were frustrated and sliding in with tackles, I had 2 penalty shouts turned down, Biscuits even got sent off.

Rest of the instructions were same to what I mentioned in my post above.

Now on Mourinho, especially Mourinho's Chelsea this season. While Simeone and Mourinho share same mentality and core, their styles are very different. Mourinho also prefers different formation, 4-2-3-1 at home and against small teams, 4-3-3 in away games, especially against top teams.

His 4-2-3-1's major part is AMs, who all have floating roles and freedom while rest of the team is very disciplined, so no sure which mentality can be sure-shot. CAM has to be hard working, close down more.

General instructions would be Short passing, Play out of defence, Run at defence, Hassle opponents and higher tempo. The defensive line is neither deep nor high, of current Chelsea team in normal matches. In 4-3-3 it'll be deep.
 
@Djibril Cisse: I guess you moved two DMs into CMs positions, right? What roles do you use?
 
No actually AMRLs are one zone back. But its a completely different tactic (roles, PIs etc)

I have two difficult games upfront (Lyonnes, olympiakos). I will post after those.
 
Lyonnes (away) destroyed my creating 6 CCCs (15 shots). I had 8 shots 1 CCC. 3-2 score. Nice considering my squad (youngsters at most and 120 current potencial in generall) but not good considering my expectations of the tactic.

Funny thing is my players played in the game just like they did in friendlies when tactic wasnt fluid. It was the team talk (no pressure)? The press conference or SIs match engine? Dont know.

Crashed Olympiakos in chances (4 CCC 3 Half they had 1 CCC 0 Half). 1-0 won. 13 shots me 8 (5 long, them).

View attachment 389141

I am uploading the set i have in my slots. Havent used any other exept Tight Aggressive S because i want to tested it in every situation.

View attachment 389144
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The S tactic is the one in the screens.
The other two are extreme versions only for use when desperatelly want to score or not to conceed.
havent tested them

I downloaded it from here : http://www.thedugout.net/community/showthread.php?t=93083
Creator is a guy named shaunwwfc

I made a few changes in roles and TIs and some more to PIs.

From what i ve seen (in matches) i believe it deserves testing.

Some other advice in generall.

BUT you must be carefull of some things.

1. Teamtalks. Crucial. Mix things up. Dont say everytime the same thing.
2. Press Conferances. Crucial too. Be smart. For example praise opponents team and manager so they get complacent.

Both are so important either keeping a good form or ending a bad one.

3. MATCH fitness. Not condition. MATCH FITNESS. Put it on your squad screen to see if your players you select are match fit. Also very important.

4. Defence cohesion. Do not rotate much defenders. Let them be cohesive.

5. Full backs should have good defence attributes. Positioning (VERY IMPORTANT), Tackling, Marking.

6. Midfielders is a plus if they also have, plus strength. They cant win balls without strength in this **** ME.

7. Arrange many friendlies to get your players match fit.

8. Dont expect good results if your tactics arent familiar.

9. Dont make huge changes in your squad. Make transfers but 2-3 every year.
 
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