Not enough shoots..

ShadowBlast

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Sep 30, 2015
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Hello fm-base..
I have a little issue with my tactic with AC Milan , My team don't shoot enough and as a result they can't score.
Every game I play ends with 8-10 shoot and any of my wins was 1-0 or 2-1..

My tactic is :


My team instructions :
More Direct Passing
Pass Into Space
Work Ball Into Box
Play Out Of Defence
Low Crosses
Exploit The Flanks
Play Wider
Drop Deeper
Stick To Positions
Close Down More
Use Tighter Marking
Prevent Short GK Distribution
Lower Tempo
Be More Discplined

=====================


Any Ideas / Tips / References ?

thanks.
 

WJ

Member
Apr 3, 2014
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Mentality is a MASSIVE piece of info to leave out.

I'd question whether your front players are getting the ball too early, whether they're getting the ball at all and if they're ever in decent spots to shoot. Answer those 3 things and you're well on your way to an answer.
 

ShadowBlast

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Sep 30, 2015
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Mentality is a MASSIVE piece of info to leave out.

I'd question whether your front players are getting the ball too early, whether they're getting the ball at all and if they're ever in decent spots to shoot. Answer those 3 things and you're well on your way to an answer.
After seeing a whole half match , There are a lot of dumb unsuccessful passes , and a lot of ball loses by any of the players because it takes too much times for them to do something with it
 

WJ

Member
Apr 3, 2014
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After seeing a whole half match , There are a lot of dumb unsuccessful passes , and a lot of ball loses by any of the players because it takes too much times for them to do something with it
Dumb unsuccessful passes BY WHO, TO WHO? You're the one seeing the match.

All the players?? It's probably a lack of passing options.
 

WJ

Member
Apr 3, 2014
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Okay, well, that's not much info and I'm still waiting for a Mentality. No answer on my questioning the available passing options either.

Your front 3 will be separated on duty allocation already. They will be even more separated from the rest because of Exploit Flanks making the AML/AMR more attacking and the middle less attacking. Drop Deeper further separates everyone. You're not giving them much freedom to improvise. You're also slowing by lower tempo for some reason.

In short, your TIs are making a fairly poor tactic, very bad. Remove most or all of them and get your midfield to link with the front 3. At the moment, the 3 are just running away from everyone.
 
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ShadowBlast

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Sep 30, 2015
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Okay, well, that's not much info and I'm still waiting for a Mentality. No answer on my questioning the available passing options either.

Your front 3 will be separated on duty allocation already. They will be even more separated from the rest because of Exploit Flanks making the AML/AMR more attacking and the middle less attacking. Drop Deeper further separates everyone. You're not giving them much freedom to improvise. You're also slowing by lower tempo for some reason.

In short, your TIs are making a fairly poor tactic, very bad. Remove most or all of them and get your midfield to link with the front 3. At the moment, the 3 are just running away from everyone.
Thanks. My mentality is ball control. Is it changes anything of your last message
 

Average Joe

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May 25, 2009
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More Direct Passing
Pass Into Space
Play Out Of Defence
Exploit The Flanks
Play Wider
Close Down More
Use Tighter Marking
Prevent Short GK Distribution
Lower Tempo


I'd keep these instructions and bin the rest, see what happens for a few games

Also, your telling the team to play wider and exploit the flanks yet your two wide players are inside forwards who by default will try to cut inside.

Either take off the flanks instruction or pop one player in to a winger role so the other players have somebody to aim for out side all the time. Also might want to try at least 1 wingback to open up some options going forward
 
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WJ

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Apr 3, 2014
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I spend far too much time on people here who just want everything done for them. Need to get off this forum.


Anyway, have a look through these:

This is a very simple guide and a good start: How to Play FM: A Twelve Step Guide

Then a very good guide to get your role/duty setup sorted: Pairs & Combinations FM2015 - UPDATED

Finally, this one. It's long, but at the very least read the Team Instructions and Player Instructions part of it. Lines and Diamonds: The Tactician's Handbook for Football Manager 2015
 

xtremeRED

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Nov 24, 2014
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I'm not really sure, and I made get be wrong, but with :
hold position and close down more, aren't you in essence confusing your players? those two are somewhat opposite instructions..
work ball into box is an instruction that makes your team to look for the best pass, search for another team mate in the attacking third, remove that, and your players might take more chances on their own, without the weight of working the ball into box to look for a better opening..
also, with more direct passing and most of your instructions, your team would be better off playing a higher tempo..
try whipped crosses or floated for some change...
your striker wouldn't do much other than only in the attacking third.. as such, a Trequartista or F9 would have more to offer, and with attacking wide men on the flanks, a player who can involve from deeper playing at ST would offer more balance..

coming to midfield, De Jong would be better off at the base in the DM strata.. not BWM though, but HB or anchorman or the standard DM(D).. you can let the DM player take more shots from far..
and then, the CM duo would be more effective with a BBM paired with a DLP/AP or even RP..

go with the wide men inter changing places, and you'd see your team creating a lot more chances confusing the opposition..

good luck..
 

WJ

Member
Apr 3, 2014
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This is why I posted the link to TI's :(

hold position and close down more, aren't you in essence confusing your players? those two are somewhat opposite instructions..
Stick To Positions limits Roaming when in possession. Close down more is a defensive instruction.

work ball into box is an instruction that makes your team to look for the best pass, search for another team mate in the attacking third, remove that, and your players might take more chances on their own, without the weight of working the ball into box to look for a better opening..
Work Ball Into Box limits crosses and long shots. That's all.
 

xtremeRED

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Nov 24, 2014
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This is why I posted the link to TI's :(



Stick To Positions limits Roaming when in possession. Close down more is a defensive instruction.

Work Ball Into Box limits crosses and long shots. That's all.
that's what I said with regards to WBIB.. the team would look to bring a better chance, and there in, might lose the ball.. and the main issue that the OP has is with regards to the team not taking more shots, hence WBIB inhibits what he's asking from the team..

that said, stick to positions is applicable not only when in possession, but also when you are defending. the team retains the shape, the players more or less stick to their areas only..

close down is obviously when you are defending, when the opposition has the ball, you look to hassle them into giving away the possession.. as such, your players would be definitely out of their base positions, and in the odd chance of them failing to close down and win the ball, those players would leave you exposed to counter attacks..

you can definitely use both those TIs together, but there would be times when your team wouldnt be able to adapt to the swift transition..
when looking to attack and create more chances, wouldn't it make more sense to be fluid and roam when in possession?
also, you need to note that the OP is playing with a deeper defensive line.. there would be gaps between the defense and the midfield due to no DM protection..
 

xtremeRED

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Nov 24, 2014
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it's the context of the OP and his team..
he wants them to attack and shoot more..

therefore asking the team to hold position wouldn't help when he has IF's out wide on attack who technically flourish when allowed to roam.
again, two roaming players and a BWM, all these are essentially "roamers"...

lower tempo works well with retaining possession and a controlled mentality, and with that, WBIB is cherry on top..
but when direct passing, you need to up the tempo, attacking players to roam, and use hold position for individual CB's in their PIs..
 

darren151991

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May 5, 2010
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I use the same formation as you. But different player roles. I could upload it for u to look at if u want. Not uploaded one before tho ??????
 

BadDragon

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Oct 13, 2014
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I saw this once on another forum and it made me think! So I applied it to your instructions.

Imagine this as a team talk....

Ok team here's what I want to to do - Build from the back with direct passes into space, oh and guys, make sure that you spread wide and kick the ball into the corners at the same time. No need to bust a gut though so slow the tempo down, but make sure you close down the opponents, mark tightly and hassle the keeper.

This is what you are telling the team to do by setting More Direct Passing,
Pass Into Space, Play Out Of Defence, Exploit The Flanks, Play Wider, Close Down More, Use Tighter Marking, Prevent Short GK Distribution and Lower Tempo.

I always do this on my tactics - translate into plain english, and as soon as I get more than three instructions I stop and go back to my roles and duties because if the team is not doing what I want, then I have something wrong there.

My gut thing would be to remove all instructions and get your players in the correct roles first. I can not get this formation working at all in FM 15, but would look at the following 2 changes:
1 . Change a RPM into BtB midfield
2a. Change the opposite Winger into support role or
2b. Make your striker a F9 or a DLF (S)
 
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duca015

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Aug 6, 2014
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Hello fm-base..
I have a little issue with my tactic with AC Milan , My team don't shoot enough and as a result they can't score.
Every game I play ends with 8-10 shoot and any of my wins was 1-0 or 2-1..

My tactic is :


My team instructions :
More Direct Passing
Pass Into Space
Work Ball Into Box
Play Out Of Defence
Low Crosses
Exploit The Flanks
Play Wider
Drop Deeper
Stick To Positions
Close Down More
Use Tighter Marking
Prevent Short GK Distribution
Lower Tempo
Be More Discplined

=====================


Any Ideas / Tips / References ?

thanks.
There is so much wrong with your setup here that it would be pointless for us to tell you what to do... Instead, I will try to explain what is wrong...

1. More direct passing does not work well with playmaker roles, as you will have lot back/forth passing to your playmakers, and opposition will be able to setup their defence and you will not benefit from direct passing.
2. To be able to pass in space, you need to create some space, and you are not creating it with front three.
3. When you are trying to work ball into box, you need to unsetlle and break opposition defensive shape, and by forsing your front trhee into box, you are not doing this, as they will be, for most of time, between 4 or even 5 opposition players. You will have some space on side, but you are not using it becouse your FB-s are very passive. And you are not shooting from distance so there is apsolutly no one who cares if you passing from your left to your right.
4. Low crosses are good if you have space behind defence, but as I explained you in first point, your back/forth passing does not leave you this space. So this way you are giving ball away. Further more, I am guessing that you are not crossing too much either, as work ball into box is preventing your players to cross more often.
5. To be able to exploit the flanks, you actually have to have someone who will be able to run into space on side, and you have none.
6. With wide play, you make your offensive play even more slower and even more predictable. Yes, You stretch opposition, but you do not have rolles to benefit from this.
7. Drop deeper - It separate your lines more then it has to. Combined with prevent GK short distribution it streches your team even more and leave your midfield three to cover a lot of space.
8. Lower tempo is killing any possability to actully hit opposition on break and actully benefit from direct passing and front three attacking rolles, as well as low crosses.
9. Stik to position will kill any movement without ball.
10. More disciplined game will kill any creativity.

You could benefit by just making three small changes - seting up your two wide players to support roles and your FB-s to attack roles, you will get two players between lines, and you will get two wide players that will actually benefit from your exploit flanks shout. But this will deny space for Your RMP -s to run into, so DLP-s will be probably more beneficial here.

Second option is to change role of Your CF to f9-Treq- DLF, in order to conect midfield and front three, and to create space for two INF... But you will need to loos exploite flanks shout, as you want more direct style of attack here, to actually go trough defence, not around them.

Third option is to make some asimetry in midfield, to have one Ap -att and one DLP -def and to have one fb more attacking (on side of DLP ), and also INF on this side should be on support duty, so you can use space that front three will create... AP will run into this space and be able to conect with your supporting Inf and offensive fullback, and you will also have options in box for quick crosses...

RPM are rolles that need freedom to be effective, and you are killing any freedom with be more disciplined shout and stick to position shout. This goes also to AF rolle, as it is rolle that tries to run in space...

Try also different combinations of shouts and whatch some games to see what have changed for better or worse...
 
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