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Player Balance

fuelledbypassion

Complete Legend
Dec 11, 2009
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What is your interpretation of the balance attribute?

I've seen it described as:

'How well a player is able to stay steady on his feet, both with the ball when running at and evading opponents, and without the ball when facing opponents running at him as well as when turning and jumping.'

To me, this seems a little too similar to the agility attribute, in terms of movement in small spaces, turning and evading opponents. When you look at the actual players in the game, the well balanced players tend to be able to withstand opponents well - Strong players such as Zlatan Ibrahimovic(20), Fernando Lorente(20) and Cristiano Ronaldo(19), sturdy yet shorter players such as Javier Zanetti(19) and Bastian Schweinsteiger(19), or slighter more agile players like Hatem Ben Arfa(20) and Ryan Giggs(18).

But I don't understand how it is decided. Why is Yaya Toure give a balance value of 18? Why is Messi only 16? How would you rate the balance of a Ronaldinho in his prime? Or Maradona?

I'd really appreciate some opinions on this subject, and as an exercise of interest, how would you rate the balance of the following players:

* Z. Ibrahimovic
* C. Ronaldo
* J. Zanetti
* Y. Toure
* L. Messi
* Ronaldinho
* D. Maradona
* W. Samuel
* B. Charlton
* S. Gerrard
* C. Makelele
 

Lukieboy

Member
Jan 3, 2013
179
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I agree that is sounds very similar to agility in the attacking sense (when the player in question has the ball). I've always thought of balance as an attribute that conveys a player's ability to stay upright after shoulder to shoulder contact (if strength is similar of course) or their ability to hit the target with a shot or pass whilst off balance. For example, a player with low balance would be more inclined to fire off target if being held back or pushed as he shoots.

I feel that players who are adept at shooting from long range generally have good balance for example a Gerrard or a Ronaldo. Players like Heskey (falling over all the time) generally don't.

Z. Ibrahimovic - 20
C. Ronaldo - 18/19
J. Zanetti - Haven't seen him enough
Y. Toure - 19
L. Messi -17
Ronaldinho - 17
D. Maradona - 18 (Based solely on his goal against England. The balance needed for that handball, just immense :p.)
W. Samuel - Seen too litle of him
B. Charlton - Again, haven't really seen him
S. Gerrard - 18
C. Makelele - 15 (From what I remember)
 

fuelledbypassion

Complete Legend
Dec 11, 2009
3,437
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I agree that is sounds very similar to agility in the attacking sense (when the player in question has the ball). I've always thought of balance as an attribute that conveys a player's ability to stay upright after shoulder to shoulder contact (if strength is similar of course) or their ability to hit the target with a shot or pass whilst off balance. For example, a player with low balance would be more inclined to fire off target if being held back or pushed as he shoots.

I feel that players who are adept at shooting from long range generally have good balance for example a Gerrard or a Ronaldo. Players like Heskey (falling over all the time) generally don't.

Z. Ibrahimovic - 20
C. Ronaldo - 18/19
J. Zanetti - Haven't seen him enough
Y. Toure - 19
L. Messi -17
Ronaldinho - 17
D. Maradona - 18 (Based solely on his goal against England. The balance needed for that handball, just immense :p.)
W. Samuel - Seen too litle of him
B. Charlton - Again, haven't really seen him
S. Gerrard - 18
C. Makelele - 15 (From what I remember)
Thanks for the response.

I agree mostly, and I think it must be a combination of strength and agility - an ability to withstand an opponent and remain balanced to pass, shoot, tackle or whatever.

I'd consider Messi to have a higher agility than Ronaldinho, but probably a lower balance than him, as Ronaldinho was a lot stronger. But FM rate Messi as 20 AGI, 16 BAL, and Ronaldinho as 13 AGI, 13 BAL. Is he just underrarted because of his age? Or is this actually accurate?

I'm trying to recreate former players as accurately as possible, but am finding the balance attribute a real problem at the minute.
 

Joel`

Member
Jul 23, 2010
8,166
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I think of balance as how much of your body weight you can shift outwards from the centre of your body without falling over, whereas agility is how well you can shift that weight in a changing direction. If someone is on a tightrope, someone with better balance is able to sustain more body movements without falling, whereas someone with poor balance, even walking one step would cause enough body change to make you fall.

So in footballing terms, you can sustain more body sway without falling over. Hence why physical players like Toure who also have good balance are near impossible to get off the ball, it's difficult enough to get them to sway in the first place, let alone enough to make them lose balance.
 

Lukieboy

Member
Jan 3, 2013
179
0
0
Yeah I think that the physical attributes of older players are slightly inaccurate, especially when they decline in game. Yes acceleration, pace, agility and strength may decline but stats such as balance or jumping may not necessarily, however they tend to in game.

As far as Ronaldinho is concerned, yes I feel he is underrated because of his age
 

Joel`

Member
Jul 23, 2010
8,166
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I agree mostly, and I think it must be a combination of strength and agility - an ability to withstand an opponent and remain balanced to pass, shoot, tackle or whatever.

I'd consider Messi to have a higher agility than Ronaldinho, but probably a lower balance than him, as Ronaldinho was a lot stronger. But FM rate Messi as 20 AGI, 16 BAL, and Ronaldinho as 13 AGI, 13 BAL. Is he just underrarted because of his age? Or is this actually accurate?
I think you need to think of each attribute in it's physical meaning rather than trying to interpret them from what happens in a match. Like nearly all FM attributes, taking just 1 is near meaningless, someone could have excellent finishing but without composure, technique etc. they'll never be a great goalscorer. Likewise, someone might have amazing balance but if they're so physically weak that they get shrugged off regardless, you could end up thinking they have poor balance, when it's just the other factors letting them down.
 

fuelledbypassion

Complete Legend
Dec 11, 2009
3,437
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I think you need to think of each attribute in it's physical meaning rather than trying to interpret them from what happens in a match. Like nearly all FM attributes, taking just 1 is near meaningless, someone could have excellent finishing but without composure, technique etc. they'll never be a great goalscorer. Likewise, someone might have amazing balance but if they're so physically weak that they get shrugged off regardless, you could end up thinking they have poor balance, when it's just the other factors letting them down.
I guess what I am struggling with is how to quantify the balance of each player when the difference between them is negligable. I mean, to be a professional footballer you surely have to have very good balance anyway? I'd have thought, in plain terms, that Messi has near perfect balance, yet the fm gurus do not. How would you rate the balance of the players listed in the OP Joel?
 

Joel`

Member
Jul 23, 2010
8,166
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I guess what I am struggling with is how to quantify the balance of each player when the difference between them is negligable. I mean, to be a professional footballer you surely have to have very good balance anyway? I'd have thought, in plain terms, that Messi has near perfect balance, yet the fm gurus do not. How would you rate the balance of the players listed in the OP Joel?
Yeah, I see where you're coming from, especially for historical players. I suppose you could just think in terms of how often you'll see the player actually fall over from losing balance and then rate due to that, since how good your balance is the ultimate limit on whether you'll fall or not. In terms of quantifying you'd do it by how far you can shift your centre of gravity before you fall, so in terms of rating players on FM judge players relative to how easily it is to make them lose that balance (and ignore strength as that's just the amount of resistance your body can put before you reach your critical point). For instance, Zlatan and Ronaldo, despite their upper body strength no matter how hard you move them, in the time limit of exerting the force they'll generally be able to re-figure their body shape to retain balance. A weaker player, say, Chicharito probably has around the same strength as Messi, but his weaker balance means it's a bit easier to shrug him off as you don't have to force his body as far away from it's default centre.

That ended up a bit wordier than I meant it to be, but hopefully something in there helps. :p
 
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