Radical muslim Cleric Anjeem Choudhary banned from France

[ajt09]

The radical muslim cleric Anjeem Choudhary has been banned from France, after he planned a protest against Frances law outlawing women from wearing the burka.

Anjem Choudary, British Radical Islamist, Is Permanently Banned From Entering France | UK News | Sky News

To me this is great news. Because not only is he a complete and utter nutjob, but is one of the people, who is great at whipping up extreme anti-West hatred, especially against the United States.
Now before people think I am being racist, I am not. I totally abhore racism. But this is the man, who nick-named the 9/11 murdering terrorists "the magnificent 11". And also, wanted to organise the marching of 500 coffins, through the town of Wootton Bassett in Wiltshire, a community which gained a reputation for regularly honouring British service-personnel killed in Afghanistan. Which begs another question.
If France has the backbone to do this, why not this country. France banned the Burka for a reason. In normal society, women are not forced to wear the Burka, because unlike Sharia law, women are treated unlike dirt. We have freedom to do as we please. Freedom, to voice our opinion, without the fear of retrebution. We do not stone people to death for adultery etc etc. This is why even proper, elder, wise intelligent muslims see people like Choudhary as a threat. Because he is stuck in the past, uses the Koran as an excuse for attrocities such as 9/11, and is basically, insane and intent on causing trouble.
I would be interested in opinions on this. Am I being narrow minded? Am I being racist? Am I being disrespectful toward other peoples religion? I honestly feel, I am not. As people know from my posts on the God thread, I have nothing against people who believe in god, allah or whatever, as long as they do not impose their views upon me. They believe in religion, great. I let them get on with it; who am I to insult them on that? But when people like Choudhary are in this country, they MUST be expelled, and never allowed back in. Because not only will they inflame hatred against this country, but they will also increase the anti-muslim/anti-religion nutjobs out there, and give so much ammunition to groups such as the BNP. And please-no insults to other religions, races etc. Or the thread will be closed immediately. Show some respect to other peoples opinions/beliefs.
Thoughts?

 

[fuelledbypassion]

The fact that you are worried of being seen as a racist really highlights the problems with this country. We welcome everyone with open arms and end up housing these crazed idiots, and they end up giving their own race and religion a bad name in the western world. I applaud France for their stance on the issue. I wouldn't expect to go to their homeland and enforce my views upon them or anyone else, so why should our culture be forced to change to accomodate everyone who chooses to come here? I'm all for multi-cultural diversity, but there has to be a line

 

[ajt09]

The fact that you are worried of being seen as a racist really highlights the problems with this country. We welcome everyone with open arms and end up housing these crazed idiots, and they end up giving their own race and religion a bad name in the western world. I applaud France for their stance on the issue. I wouldn't expect to go to their homeland and enforce my views upon them or anyone else, so why should our culture be forced to change to accomodate everyone who chooses to come here? I'm all for multi-cultural diversity, but there has to be a line

Couldn't agree more. We're so scared of upsetting people from other countries, that we're told pretty much to put up or shut up. I discussed this in the pub once, and immediately got labelled a racist, when I'm totally the opposite. If I went to a place like say Saudi Arabia, I'd have no qualms about the laws they have there, none at all. It just seems anyone can get away with anything, because they know they won't get done, no matter who they offend.

 

[19-11-08]

I don't think the burka should be banned. We don't really have the right to ban it.

 

[ajt09]

I don't think the burka should be banned. We don't really have the right to ban it.

How come? Not going to have a go at you or anything, but they wear it to adhere to male demands that other men can't look at their woman. We're not like that in this country

 

[Chaz Sexington]

I don't think the burka should be banned. We don't really have the right to ban it.

If FIFA can ban the snood, the government can ban the burka;p

And anyway, I don't think anyone outside Afghanistan wears the burka. What they wear here is the niqab. Regardless, as a liberal and believer in the rights of the individual, including how they want to dress, I don't want it banned. However, I'm all for it being banned when it comes to public jobs, along with crucifixes, sikh turbans etc. It's simply not a secular piece of clothing, and thus I believe it should be banned from schools, universities etc, and if private companies want to, they should be able to ban their employees from wearing religious (not just Muslim) items. As religion can often be political, I feel it should be banned from public institutions, same as you're not allowed to wear a red armband with a swastika.

 

[ajt09]

Plus, isn't there some sort of law regarding the burka, thats tied into security after 9/11? Or is that a myth?
But the real crux of the matter is, how come France has the backbone to do what they did, but we can't? Have we really become that liberal, that we are that truly scared to offend literally anybody? From the muslim community, down to the human rights people? And if the human rights people support the cleric, then something really is horribly wrong to be honest

 

[Puddz]

Muslim women wear the Hijab, the Burka, or the Niqab to hide their beauty. They do this because the Qur'an says they should. Just like it says they should Pray 5 times a day towards Mecca, that they need to Fast, they need to try and visit Mecca in their lifetime. It also unfortunately says that it is each Muslims duty to get Sharia law implemented into every country in the world. Which is how some Muslims rationalize violence like the 9/11 atrocity, because they say the people responsible are doing the work of Allah.

 

[19-11-08]

How come? Not going to have a go at you or anything, but they wear it to adhere to male demands that other men can't look at their woman. We're not like that in this country

Well, firstly, i'm fairly sure wearing a burka is not even very widespread in the UK so i don't see the need to clamp down on it.
It's pretty much only very strict muslims that wear it and if those women want to wear a burka then i don't see why we should stop them from wearing it. If they're being forced to wear it then that's a different matter but i'm sure in the UK only a very small minority are forced against their will. Even if they aren't the minority but the majority then banning the burka won't help them. We already have laws protecting their human rights which is what the real issue would be then, not that they're wearing a burka.
Plus banning the burka because it's not what "we" do in this country is a fairly terrible reason to ouright ban something.

 

[ajt09]

Thats the thing. I have a few muslim friends locally, and they agree, that the day that Sharia law comes into any country, is the day that freedom and democracy dies. It's a law that is from medieval times, and has virtually no place in modern society. Stoning a woman to death for adultry, is beyond anything normal. It's inhuman.
But getting rid of the Burka, surely would give women the freedom they rightfully deserve in modern society? In Newcastle city centre, I have to say I've seen quite a few Burkas, and I do feel sorry for them being forced to wear it. In my opinion, it's infringing their right to live a normal life

 

[19-11-08]

How do you know they're being forced?
They might just be strict muslims who've chosen to wear a burka.

 

[ajt09]

How do you know they're being forced?
They might just be strict muslims who've chosen to wear a burka.

Fair point. Thing is though, why would they choose it, when it could alienate themselves from everybody else, when there are some pretty extreme people in our society, who would single them out for a torrent of abuse, or in some cases, worse. I mean to me, if a religion dictates that they HAVE to cover themselves up totally, then isn't it just depriving them of a right? I'm not going to claim I know everything about the Qur'an, but it does seem that some of the rules of guidance, seem very, very extreme and goes everything that a human is entitled to. If they choose to follow it, fair enough. But some of the laws just seem so out of touch

 

[Puddz]

Fair point. Thing is though, why would they choose it, when it could alienate themselves from everybody else, when there are some pretty extreme people in our society, who would single them out for a torrent of abuse, or in some cases, worse. I mean to me, if a religion dictates that they HAVE to cover themselves up totally, then isn't it just depriving them of a right? I'm not going to claim I know everything about the Qur'an, but it does seem that some of the rules of guidance, seem very, very extreme and goes everything that a human is entitled to. If they choose to follow it, fair enough. But some of the laws just seem so out of touch

You don't understand Religion do you? oO)
It isn't some pick and mix, where you can follow some rules and just not bother with the others. Christians, Buddhist, Jews etc... all do what their religion tells them to do. Muslims are no different. It's just Muslims have more "Stand out" rules.

 

[ajt09]

You don't understand Religion do you? oO)
It isn't some pick and mix, where you can follow some rules and just not bother with the others. Christians, Buddhist, Jews etc... all do what their religion tells them to do. Muslims are no different. It's just Muslims have more "Stand out" rules.

With all due respect, I don't follow religion full stop. Thing is, if a country has a law, you have to follow it. It's a law, thats been passed on by that countrie's government. And that law, has to be obeyed, regardless of religion. If you don't like the countries law, then tough. Harsh I know, but everybody else has to follow it. If France bans it, then ALL people have to abide by it, or face the consequences. They may not like it, but thats the way it goes. Just like people in this country are banned from weaing the cross in hospital, in case it offends Muslim patients. Religion should have no authority whatsoever above the law. Simple as. Not just Muslim religion, but ALL religions.
And without being rude, the point of the thread isn't completey about the Burka, but mainly about Anjeem Choudhary-just don't want it to go totally off-topic and being all about the Burka and totally on religion.

 

[Puddz]

With all due respect, I don't follow religion full stop. Thing is, if a country has a law, you have to follow it. It's a law, thats been passed on by that countrie's government. And that law, has to be obeyed, regardless of religion. If you don't like the countries law, then tough. Harsh I know, but everybody else has to follow it. If France bans it, then ALL people have to abide by it, or face the consequences. They may not like it, but thats the way it goes. Just like people in this country are banned from weaing the cross in hospital, in case it offends Muslim patients. Religion should have no authority whatsoever above the law. Simple as. Not just Muslim religion, but ALL religions.
And without being rude, the point of the thread isn't completey about the Burka, but mainly about Anjeem Choudhary-just don't want it to go totally off-topic and being all about the Burka and totally on religion.

You don't follow religion yet you are debating about it. :S

Religion, for most people, is a way of life. They follow their religion rules first, then the rules of the Country they live in second. They do this because their religion rules were put in place by their God/Deity ages ago, while the Country's law was put in place by humans quite recently. It's like working in a office and being told to do something by the Boss, then being told to do something by a co-worker. You will do what the Boss says because he's more important then the co-worker.

And also, people in this country aren't banned from wearing Crosses. That was an isolated incident where a BA employee was wearing one, got told to hide it or take it off, she refused so BA told her to go home and not come back till she follows the rule. BA then had to back down after the government told them to stfu and let her wear the cross.

 

[ajt09]

You don't follow religion yet you are debating about it. :S

Religion, for most people, is a way of life. They follow their religion rules first, then the rules of the Country they live in second. They do this because their religion rules were put in place by their God/Deity ages ago, while the Country's law was put in place by humans quite recently. It's like working in a office and being told to do something by the Boss, then being told to do something by a co-worker. You will do what the Boss says because he's more important then the co-worker.

And also, people in this country aren't banned from wearing Crosses. That was an isolated incident where a BA employee was wearing one, got told to hide it or take it off, she refused so BA told her to go home and not come back till she follows the rule. BA then had to back down after the government told them to stfu and let her wear the cross.

Not debating it, just mentioned that some of the guidelines are overly strict-and some people take it way too far. Like I mentioned though, I'm not trying to debate religion as a whole. The title of the OP was about a cleric who was banned from a country for having extreme views, and inciting hatred. I was just highlighting examples. Like I said repeatedly in the God thread, I don't criticise people for following a religion, and never have. It just comes across, that some of the laws of it are too harsh.
And why should a religion overrule the law of a country anyway? There are laws for a reason, that I, you and everyone have to follow. They are there for a reason. Why should followers of a religion, impose their will upon a country, to try and change the way that country is run for example? Like the Cleric harping on about Sharia law? This is not a state that follows his religion, it is multi-cultural therefore does not apply to everyone. It just will not work.
If its coming across as muddled though, I apologise. I've been up since half 5 this morning, so you'll have to bear with me.

 

[Puddz]

And why should a religion overrule the law of a country anyway? There are laws for a reason, that I, you and everyone have to follow. They are there for a reason. Why should followers of a religion, impose their will upon a country, to try and change the way that country is run for example?

I agree that Religion shouldn't overrule the law's of the Country, but that's how it is. Religion is a way of life. Country is just a place to live.
But it's not actually that big of a problem. most religions already have laws that the country has. Like no killing, No stealing etc.. Some laws even take the laws of the country further. Like Adultery.
It only causes problems when the Laws clash. Which doesn't happen often.

 

[Billy]

Religious 'laws' should never be prioritised against those of a nation, especially those that aren't native to it, i.e. Islamic 'laws' in United Kingdom.

I applaud France for their actions, both in making the decision to ban something that many would never consider just to avoid offending a group of people, and in banning somebody who would incite violence/hatred as a result of said decision.

 

[ajt09]

Religious 'laws' should never be prioritised against those of a nation, especially those that aren't native to it, i.e. Islamic 'laws' in United Kingdom.

I applaud France for their actions, both in making the decision to ban something that many would never consider just to avoid offending a group of people, and in banning somebody who would incite violence/hatred as a result of said decision.

Just a shame we won't do the same here, as he's clearly capable of influencing people who are easily manipulated

 

[Joel`]

You don't follow religion yet you are debating about it. :S

Religion, for most people, is a way of life. They follow their religion rules first, then the rules of the Country they live in second. They do this because their religion rules were put in place by their God/Deity ages ago, while the Country's law was put in place by humans quite recently. It's like working in a office and being told to do something by the Boss, then being told to do something by a co-worker. You will do what the Boss says because he's more important then the co-worker.

And also, people in this country aren't banned from wearing Crosses. That was an isolated incident where a BA employee was wearing one, got told to hide it or take it off, she refused so BA told her to go home and not come back till she follows the rule. BA then had to back down after the government told them to stfu and let her wear the cross.

You can not follow a religion and debate about it. Your choice to abstain from following it as much a cause for debate than those that do, you know?

Plus, isn't there some sort of law regarding the burka, thats tied into security after 9/11? Or is that a myth?
But the real crux of the matter is, how come France has the backbone to do what they did, but we can't? Have we really become that liberal, that we are that truly scared to offend literally anybody? From the muslim community, down to the human rights people? And if the human rights people support the cleric, then something really is horribly wrong to be honest

You know something's ****** up when France have more backbone to do something, right?

And I agree with Mr.Sexington about not being allowed to wear religious items at schools, private companies etc.