Rangers into liquidation before the season ends?

[AM67]

Don't insult my intelligence. I have detailed accounts of your past 4 trading years to base whatever I say off. You don't think your net transfer spend was inflated a bit by a certain Aiden McGeady?

Whatever you say, your CL revenue ~ transfer spend in the same period. It's an inescapable mathematical fact, you don't make money by not spending it, you save it. There's a difference. A big one. To make money you have to earn money, we're talking AT LEAST 2/7 of your current revenue (which is generous) which is also assuming a good season. What happens if you have ONE bad season? You have nothing to fall back on.

The whole thing's a pack of cards, and Rangers are the glue at the bottom.

I'm not insulting your intelligence mate, but first we were dependant on tv money, then champions league money (and we haven't qualified for the champions league since 2007?) and now its both. Just seems like you dont like Celtic/the SPL and have made your mind up already. Aiden McGeady made up 9/35m we have recieved which is a significant amount, but we obviously wouldn't have spent if we didn't sell him. Emilio Izaguirre, Beram Kayal, Gary Hooper, James Forrest, Ki and Adam Matthews will all potentially be sold for a similar fee. How severe do you think the effect will be to Celtic if Rangers go under? Do you really think we will not survive?

 

[GodCubed]

I'm not insulting your intelligence mate, but first we were dependant on tv money, then champions league money (and we haven't qualified for the champions league since 2007?) and now its both. Just seems like you dont like Celtic/the SPL and have made your mind up already. Aiden McGeady made up 9/35m we have recieved which is a significant amount, but we obviously wouldn't have spent if we didn't sell him. Emilio Izaguirre, Beram Kayal, Gary Hooper, James Forrest, Ki and Adam Matthews will all potentially be sold for a similar fee. How severe do you think the effect will be to Celtic if Rangers go under? Do you really think we will not survive?

One would assume he's made his mind up because he's right.

Of course he thinks you'll survive. The issue here isn't survival, necessarily. It's just that massive cutbacks would need to be made, that will reduce the quality and size of the SPL by far.

 

[Joel`]

I couldn't care less about Scotland, Celtic/Rangers or the SPL. I have no agenda for or against any of it. Yes, those players can all be sold for a fee. But that's short term income that costs potential long term income. Surely not what you want for a club?

I'm certain you'd survive, I'm saying you'd have far less power as a club, which is ultimately bad for you, the supporter and the SPL.

 

[JonoMUFC]

We've made that money back by not spending what we dont have, we have recieved more transfer fees than spent. You obviously don't really know much about the subject, your mind is made up.

You dont make up money like that, Its lost forever. If you took in the same transfer fees plus the CL revenue you would have more. You still lost out on money, you can twist and spin it however you want its money lost out on.

Celtic fans have obviously been dreaming of the day they can win Titles by December, they obviously dont care for competition and think themselves saints compared to Rangers. But as we say in South Africa, In die land van die blindes, is die eenoog koning. Loosely translated In the land of the Blind, the one eyed is king.

 

[AM67]

One would assume he's made his mind up because he's right.

Of course he thinks you'll survive. The issue here isn't survival, necessarily. It's just that massive cutbacks would need to be made, that will reduce the quality and size of the SPL by far.

The SPL will suffer cutbacks yes, I have not denied this. In the long term the league will be more competitive and have higher attendances, as well as the old firm dominance being broken. In 10 years time, four clubs could be competing to win a 20-club league, with much higher attendances at most clubs and depending on how Scottish clubs do in Europe over the next few years, maybe even a couple managing to qualify.

Edit - Also want to say, it would be very unlikely for Celtic to remain in the SPL if rangers did die.

 

[Joel`]

The SPL will suffer cutbacks yes, I have not denied this. In the long term the league will be more competitive and have higher attendances, as well as the old firm dominance being broken. In 10 years time, four clubs could be competing to win a 20-club league, with much higher attendances at most clubs and depending on how Scottish clubs do in Europe over the next few years, maybe even a couple managing to qualify.

Edit - Also want to say, it would be very unlikely for Celtic to remain in the SPL if rangers did die.

Why do you think attendances would rise? I can only assume you're saying higher attendances are a result of more competition, by that logic league 2 should be selling out stadiums every game and Barca/Madrid should be near empty.

 

[Mike.]

The SPL will suffer cutbacks yes, I have not denied this. In the long term the league will be more competitive and have higher attendances, as well as the old firm dominance being broken. In 10 years time, four clubs could be competing to win a 20-club league, with much higher attendances at most clubs and depending on how Scottish clubs do in Europe over the next few years, maybe even a couple managing to qualify.

Edit - Also want to say, it would be very unlikely for Celtic to remain in the SPL if rangers did die.

No it wouldnt becuase the overall quality of the players in the league would fall first, and its impossible to say whether the league would bounce back. You're not suddenly going to get bigger attendances. TV money would fall, cutbacksa would be made, quality players would go other places. They wouldnt suddenly come back, because in comparison to other leagues they would be falling. Thats the big issue here. The SPL isnt standalone, you would be shrinking in relation to other sides. you might all be more equal, but you'd all be equally worse

 

[AM67]

Rangers fans would not disappear and would still attend football games - whether it be a newco Rangers or another team. SPL attendances can be very high for rival matches, cup finals/semis etc, which suggests if there was more competition then attendances would rise. The Barca comparison is extreme considering the quality of football outside Celtic/Rangers in the SPL and that of Barca/Madrid

 

[Joel`]

Rangers fans would not disappear and would still attend football games - whether it be a newco Rangers or another team. SPL attendances can be very high for rival matches, cup finals/semis etc, which suggests if there was more competition then attendances would rise. The Barca comparison is extreme considering the quality of football outside Celtic/Rangers in the SPL and that of Barca/Madrid

If Rangers fans created a new team, it'd be in the lower echelons and take years to work back. Whatever game do you have to rival the old firm? You can't rely on one off cup games and rivalries to support seasonal gates.

Extreme analogies highlight the logical flaw most blatantly. The fact you need to dismiss it 'because it's extreme' proves it works. Logic doesn't stop working on greater scales. Shrink it down, by your logic the team in equilibrium of results should have the highest gates, and the teams at the top and bottom should both have the lowest. Again, not true. Football is fundamentally about entertainment first and foremost. Higher quality players are in general more entertaining.

 

[AM67]

Kilmarnock and Ayr recently got 25kish to a semi final, yet only get a few thousand (if that) to a regular league game. If Kilmarnock were challenging for European spots, as almost every club in the SPL would be if Rangers were not there next season, their attendances would obviously rise. Comparing the SPL to La Liga is not logical. Compare the quality of the SPL ten years ago - Larsson etc - to now, it is already declining. Something has to be done to ensure the long term future of the SPL and solutions have been discussed at the highest level.

Celtic/Rangers dominance ending, although it would hit current SPL clubs financially, would be better for the league in the long term. Would you not agree?

 

[Joel`]

Kilmarnock and Ayr recently got 25kish to a semi final, yet only get a few thousand (if that) to a regular league game. If Kilmarnock were challenging for European spots, as almost every club in the SPL would be if Rangers were not there next season, their attendances would obviously rise. Comparing the SPL to La Liga is not logical. Compare the quality of the SPL ten years ago - Larsson etc - to now, it is already declining. Something has to be done to ensure the long term future of the SPL and solutions have been discussed at the highest level.

Celtic/Rangers dominance ending, although it would hit current SPL clubs financially, would be better for the league in the long term. Would you not agree?

You'd have less European qualification spots to compete for.

Why is it not logical? The level of quality is irrelevant. I'm talking differences in quality, the initial quality is irrelevant. Assign an arbitrary number to quantify 'quality' of the teams. Say 50/100 for a lower La Liga team and 95 for Barca. Then say 40 for Celtic and 10 for a lower SPL side. A team at around 60 in quality for La Liga may well be the most 'competitive' team in the league, where they generally have a chance against most teams, but are rarely favourites. By your logic, this team would be the most popular, but you'd choose to watch Barcelona every time, in the same way Barcelona away will pull record crowds for the home team. The same is applicable to any league, regardless of quality. The logic is the same.

 

[AM67]

You'd have less European qualification spots to compete for.

Why is it not logical? The level of quality is irrelevant. I'm talking differences in quality, the initial quality is irrelevant. Assign an arbitrary number to quantify 'quality' of the teams. Say 50/100 for a lower La Liga team and 95 for Barca. Then say 40 for Celtic and 10 for a lower SPL side. A team at around 60 in quality for La Liga may well be the most 'competitive' team in the league, where they generally have a chance against most teams, but are rarely favourites. By your logic, this team would be the most popular, but you'd choose to watch Barcelona every time, in the same way Barcelona away will pull record crowds for the home team. The same is applicable to any league, regardless of quality. The logic is the same.

We wouldn't have less European spots straight away, and given that qualification is a knockout tournament you cannot predict Scottish teams will not do well. Also, quality of football is not the only factor which affects attendances. Is the league with the highest average attendance not the German league? When I say the league will be more competitive, I mean more teams will be competing for trophies - and fans of these currently underachieving teams will be more likely to attend matches. Higher attendance, more money, better players, higher quality of football, which as you rightly say will also attract higher attendances and more tv money, etc etc.

 

[Mike.]

We wouldn't have less European spots straight away, and given that qualification is a knockout tournament you cannot predict Scottish teams will not do well. Also, quality of football is not the only factor which affects attendances. Is the league with the highest average attendance not the German league? When I say the league will be more competitive, I mean more teams will be competing for trophies - and fans of these currently underachieving teams will be more likely to attend matches. Higher attendance, more money, better players, higher quality of football, which as you rightly say will also attract higher attendances and more tv money, etc etc.

In fairness we can get a good idea, since the performances of scotland in europe have been getting worse.

German football is thriving anyway the overall quality is incredibly high, they are doing well domestically and contentially, they are drawing talent into their league.

Scottish football is going in the exact opposite direction. you woulbe more competitive simply because you lost your overall top quality players, leaving the more average ones behind. sure the more average teams would now get the chance at europe, but since the overall quality has fallen, they wouldnt get as far as good scottish side would in the past.

you would not be drawing in better players from other leagues, thus you would not be creating higher quality. Since the quality of the leaguer would fall, it would be much harder to hold on to quality youth coming through. You would become competitive through shrinkage not through growth. You would have more average teams competing for trophys, not more better teams

The exact opposite of german football

 

[Joel`]

We wouldn't have less European spots straight away, and given that qualification is a knockout tournament you cannot predict Scottish teams will not do well. Also, quality of football is not the only factor which affects attendances. Is the league with the highest average attendance not the German league? When I say the league will be more competitive, I mean more teams will be competing for trophies - and fans of these currently underachieving teams will be more likely to attend matches. Higher attendance, more money, better players, higher quality of football, which as you rightly say will also attract higher attendances and more tv money, etc etc.

Of course you could qualify, but with worst players the odds become more and more stacked against you. It's certainly not an annual guaranteed income that the top English, Spanish, German etc. teams nearly always enjoy.

Germany is also the league with the lowest ticket prices.

More teams wouldn't be competing - Celtic would be demolishing everyone. That's not competition, that's just a new team in 2nd place by default.

You wouldn't have more money, the league quality would fall relative to others, so less players would go there. People are less likely to watch lesser quality players. TV companies wouldn't give a **** about televising Celtic winning the quadruple.

 

[Athe~]

Also, quality of football is not the only factor which affects attendances. Is the league with the highest average attendance not the German league?

You're either joking or deluded. One way or the other I was planning on entering the argument, but I stopped reading right there.

 

[davidar]

Rangers and celtic fans are just as bad as each other.

Also neither club would particularly well without the other. Whatever image the SPL has outside Scotland hangs on the Old Firm. The club finances for most of the teams hang on games against the old Firm.

Absolute rubbish!

When was the last time Celtic fans sent death threats to a manager of an opposing team? When was the last time Celtic fans headbutted an opposing manager? Also when was the last time an opposing manager almost got ran off the road because another fan was shouting sectarian abuse while driving alongside him?

I suppose this is all lies as well is it and indicates that "they are both as bad as each other"?

Celtic F.C. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Who went rampaging through the streets of Manchester in 2008? Who's been fined pretty much once a year for the last 6 years for sectarian chanting/singing and had fans banned from a European game last year? Who had to receive the European Cup Winners Cup in the DRESSING room because of fans invading the pitch back in 1972 (and said club received a fine and were banned from Europe for one year)? Certainly not Celtic fans.

I'm not saying ALL Celtic fans are angels because ALL teams have their elements but to label them as "bad as each other" is ridiculous and a very old argument.

We didn't qualify for the CL in 2010, which cost us about £10m. The quality of player would become less, and in turn so would transfer fees and wages. I'm not denying Rangers dying would hurt the SPL financially, but Celtic do not need Rangers.

Totally agree.

 

[AM67]

Of course you could qualify, but with worst players the odds become more and more stacked against you. It's certainly not an annual guaranteed income that the top English, Spanish, German etc. teams nearly always enjoy.

Germany is also the league with the lowest ticket prices.

More teams wouldn't be competing - Celtic would be demolishing everyone. That's not competition, that's just a new team in 2nd place by default.

You wouldn't have more money, the league quality would fall relative to others, so less players would go there. People are less likely to watch lesser quality players. TV companies wouldn't give a **** about televising Celtic winning the quadruple.

Germany being the highest attendances due to ticket pricing shows that it's not all about quality, as Spain/England/Italy are regarded to be better leagues. Nobody is interested in watching Celtic & Rangers win anything and the SPL is declining. The only way the SPL will change is if Celtic/Rangers aren't winning everything over and over, which will happen when Rangers die and Celtic leave.

As it stands, with Celtic & Rangers in the SPL, there is no realistic potential for the league to grow. Without them, although it would be tough at first, it is at least a possibility.

 

[IanC]

If anyone thinks that if Rangers go into liquidation that Scottish football would survive then they are the most deluded set of supporters around.

Celtic fans think this would be great to see yet they are on about jumping ship from the Scottish league anyhow. So how if Rangers go under do Celtic fans honestly think they can get a rivarly like they have if they were allowed in the the EPL (no chance of it happening) or any other league. It would put the Scottish league on par with the Irish leagues but obviously Celtic fans dont care about that as long as their rivals go under which is more important to them.

 

[Aannddyy]

This is easily the single most ridiculous hypothetical "discussion" ever.

Germany being the highest attendances due to ticket pricing shows that it's not all about quality, as Spain/England/Italy are regarded to be better leagues. Nobody is interested in watching Celtic & Rangers win anything and the SPL is declining. The only way the SPL will change is if Celtic/Rangers aren't winning everything over and over, which will happen when Rangers die and Celtic leave. As it stands, with Celtic & Rangers in the SPL, there is no realistic potential for the league to grow. Without them, although it would be tough at first, it is at least a possibility.

Welsh Premier League? Although, Scotland is bigger, it would just end up the same on a slightly bigger scale.

 

[maxy67]

This is easily the single most ridiculous hypothetical "discussion" ever.



Welsh Premier League? Although, Scotland is bigger, it would just end up the same on a slightly bigger scale.

If you read the article on the first page, and the articles on other websites leading up to it- its not hypothetical, it could very much happen.