Rangers To Go into Scottish 3rd Division

maxy67

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Aug 13, 2011
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The other teams were not good enough because they were not good enough. Let's not start trying to blame Rangers for everything.

Celtic blew the league several times of their own accord. Sorry but its highly speculative and a bit one eyed to start blaming Rangers for every little thing
Hardly blaming Rangers for every little thing, merely for over spending and thus costing Celtic titles (barring last day **** ups, which I assume you mean, by saying Celtic blew the league of their own accord. Titles are won based on a whole season and many players though). If Rangers had spent within their means, or more importantly not used EBT schemes to pay players extra (without tax), they wouldn't of had those important title winning players like Barry Fergurson etc.


No. Scottish football is crippled with debt. I wouldn't say there were any clubs "living within their means", Maybe Celtic.... Maybe.

TBF, I don't see why you're making a massive deal out of it.. Rangers did worse when they had money than when they didn't!
I'm not entirely convinced they had money for a prolonged period of time, merely they used the EBT schemes to pay players and staff huge wages to carry on winning (even when it should have been clear they needed to tighten their belts like Celtic had to do).

I was making a big deal out of it because it meant that Scottish football wasn't a level playing field for the best part of 20 years.

Celtic definitely live within their means, to the point where it seems almost excessively tight.
 

pujka

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Jun 17, 2012
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You don't know what would of happened if Ranger spent within their means. It's just as easy to say they would of been just as successful by buying bargain players that turned out to be top class (like Henrik Larsson at Celtic) as it is to say that Celtic would have dominated. It's purely speculation and is completely irrelevant.
 

maxy67

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You don't know what would of happened if Ranger spent within their means. It's just as easy to say they would of been just as successful by buying bargain players that turned out to be top class (like Henrik Larsson at Celtic) as it is to say that Celtic would have dominated. It's purely speculation and is completely irrelevant.
No speculation would be to say "You don't know what would of happened if Ranger spent within their means".
 

juventus1980

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You don't know what would of happened if Ranger spent within their means. It's just as easy to say they would of been just as successful by buying bargain players that turned out to be top class (like Henrik Larsson at Celtic) as it is to say that Celtic would have dominated. It's purely speculation and is completely irrelevant.
At the end of the day Rangers didn't spend within their means, whereas Celtic did and ultimately suffered for it. From what I understand Celtic are now no where near as good as they were in the early 2000's due to their underspending (and the Sentanta deal falling through years ago).

Celtic signing Larsson for under a million and managing to hold on for him for so long was extraordinary and a mixture of extreme good luck, and quite frankly unbelieavable loyalty from Larsson (he could have gone to anyone). Purely speculation that Rangers would ever be as lucky to get that.
 

davidar

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This is what i thought but a couple are sure i have done it wrong

Only thing i am unsure about is the history

whether its carried over or if it just meant old Rangers could keep their history intact
Only thing i thought was if they get to remain the same club ETC what was the point in them being liquidated, surely them being liquidated means charles green had to 'officially' create a new club with a different name?
The history is not kept intact mate. This "Sevco" is a new company which has purchased the assets of Rangers Football Club plc and the assets only. The history of Rangers has not been transferred and the history for Rangers Football Club plc, as we all knew them, stops in 2012 and a fresh history for the new club will start in 2012. The only things that are being transferred are the assets like the stadium, training ground and players contracts and this is what Charles Green has purchased. If he wanted the history of the old Rangers as well as the club then he would have had to have bought them - along with the £100+m worth of debt. Rangers Football Club plc is being liquidated and a line is going to be drawn under that clubs history.

The AC Fiorentina example is different because they fall under Italian bankruptcy rulings and these are different to British rulings. In June 2002 AC Fiorentina went into judicially controlled administration, which is a form of bankruptcy, and means

"a controlled administration may be carried out via the implementation of a guarantee plan for the benefit of creditors or by selling company assets. The procedure is managed by a court, supervisory judge, judicial commissioner, and creditors’ committee."

It sounds just like administration, I know, but like I say Italian bankruptcy laws are different to British bankruptcy laws.

AC Fiorentina were re-born as ACF Fiorentina in August of 2002 and were admitted into C2 (4th tier of Italian football). In the off-season of 2003 they purchased the rights to AC Fiorentina which allowed them to keep the exact same badge, strip colours and honours. Charles Green only acquired Ibrox, Murray Park (the training ground) and players contracts. He has not aquired the history of the old club.

Personally I don't think this move is overly bad for scottish football, Yes we lose alot of revenue in but maybe now alot of the scottish youth will get a chance to step up to the mark - Celtic will probably win the league for the next 4-5 years if not more never mind at least 2 but hopefully some Scottish gems will appear and get their chances.
Completely agree.

This could actually encourage teams to start playing their youth and maybe try to invest in their youth setup more rather than just buying players. It will be tight in Scotland but Scottish football will not die just because one team has died and a new one has been put into Division 3.

If ANY team goes to the wall just because Rangers are no more then it's their OWN fault for relying on playing one team four times a year. Plus if teams are going to struggle that badly just because Rangers are no more, then how is it that when teams have been relegated from the SPL into Division 1 they have not went bust? I mean they haven't had the money coming in from Rangers OR Celtic games so why haven't they went t**s up?! Because they have had to adapt when they got relegated so it's just like now where teams will more than likely have to adapt.

I think it was because they are looking to change the format of Scottish football.. Even more so because the Old firm are 3 leagues apart. Sounds like they are looking into a two-division system, so SPL and an SPL2, with 14 or 16 teams in each. Rangers would only be in SPL2 and one promotion away from returning to the top division.
Mate, there has been talk of the SFA/SPL/SFL changing the league setup for years but nothing has happened. All they have really done is change the SPL from 10 to 12 then back to 10 then to 12 again and then introduce the stupid split towards the end of the season which is a pointless setup.

The funny thing is, Doncaster was quoted as saying only last year that increasing the SPL would "doom" the SPL and now, suddenly, he and the rest of his cronies are wanting a larger SPL because it's the best way to go


Neil Doncaster Predicted Doom and Disaster for a Larger SPL

If they screw with the game any more without listening to the fans then it won't be the demise of one club that they'll have to worry about - it will be the tens of thousands of football supporters that will be voting with their feet when they stay away from the game.
 
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Aannddyy

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Find it hillarious that the SFA are throwing every charge under the sun at Rangers, yet at the same time really, desperately need them to sign a contract that says Sky Sports have the rights to all their games (otherwise they will cancel their contract)... LOL, I'd tell the SFA where to stick it.

@davidar: Newco Rangers (the company) bought all of Rangers FC's assets, including the club name and history.
 

maxy67

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Find it hillarious that the SFA are throwing every charge under the sun at Rangers, yet at the same time really, desperately need them to sign a contract that says Sky Sports have the rights to all their games (otherwise they will cancel their contract)... LOL, I'd tell the SFA where to stick it.

@davidar: Newco Rangers (the company) bought all of Rangers FC's assets, including the club name and history.
They are clueless.
 

AldoKemp-1

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The history is not kept intact mate. This "Sevco" is a new company which has purchased the assets of Rangers Football Club plc and the assets only. The history of Rangers has not been transferred and the history for Rangers Football Club plc, as we all knew them, stops in 2012 and a fresh history for the new club will start in 2012. The only things that are being transferred are the assets like the stadium, training ground and players contracts and this is what Charles Green has purchased. If he wanted the history of the old Rangers as well as the club then he would have had to have bought them - along with the £100+m worth of debt. Rangers Football Club plc is being liquidated and a line is going to be drawn under that clubs history.QUOTE]

The history of the club has been transferred, Hence why the license has taken so long to be agreed as the SPL are trying to pursue 5 titles from Rangers, - Even though they are yet to be found guilty of any wrong doing.

Also as per your comment regarding spending within your means I done some checks regarding transfer history from 2001 up until 2011 last season on both clubs.

Celtic Spent A Total of: 76.8million, Receiving around: 49.6mil and totalling a spend of £27million.
Rangers spent A Total of: 92million, Receiving around: 73.82 and totalling a spend of £18.8 million

So if the transfers a totally accurate then Celtic spent more money than Rangers over the years so why should any titles be stripped.

Find it hillarious that the SFA are throwing every charge under the sun at Rangers, yet at the same time really, desperately need them to sign a contract that says Sky Sports have the rights to all their games (otherwise they will cancel their contract)... LOL, I'd tell the SFA where to stick it.

@davidar: Newco Rangers (the company) bought all of Rangers FC's assets, including the club name and history.
In my opinion as a rangers fan I think we should say we don't want the SPL getting any rights to our tv games and just give our games to BBC Alba as their trying to bleed the club dry and force alot of punishments yet still make money of us ?
 

maxy67

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The history is not kept intact mate. This "Sevco" is a new company which has purchased the assets of Rangers Football Club plc and the assets only. The history of Rangers has not been transferred and the history for Rangers Football Club plc, as we all knew them, stops in 2012 and a fresh history for the new club will start in 2012. The only things that are being transferred are the assets like the stadium, training ground and players contracts and this is what Charles Green has purchased. If he wanted the history of the old Rangers as well as the club then he would have had to have bought them - along with the £100+m worth of debt. Rangers Football Club plc is being liquidated and a line is going to be drawn under that clubs history.QUOTE]

The history of the club has been transferred, Hence why the license has taken so long to be agreed as the SPL are trying to pursue 5 titles from Rangers, - Even though they are yet to be found guilty of any wrong doing.

Also as per your comment regarding spending within your means I done some checks regarding transfer history from 2001 up until 2011 last season on both clubs.

Celtic Spent A Total of: 76.8million, Receiving around: 49.6mil and totalling a spend of £27million.
Rangers spent A Total of: 92million, Receiving around: 73.82 and totalling a spend of £18.8 million

So if the transfers a totally accurate then Celtic spent more money than Rangers over the years so why should any titles be stripped.



In my opinion as a rangers fan I think we should say we don't want the SPL getting any rights to our tv games and just give our games to BBC Alba as their trying to bleed the club dry and force alot of punishments yet still make money of us ?
The titles will be stripped due to the EBT tax scheme which meant Rangers weren't paying proper taxes on their players wages, this falls under illegally registering players.

Nothing to do with making a loss, or every club would face similar punishments. Very likely to get the titles taken away no matter how much of a fuss Ally McCoist protests.

I suggest you try and find this show that was on not long ago: BBC One - BBC Scotland Investigates, 2012, Rangers - The Men Who Sold the Jerseys

Explains the wrong doings at Rangers, was a lot more than just over spending.... Paying players huge extra wages without paying taxes and not informing the Scottish football governing bodies will be the reason for punishment.
 
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AldoKemp-1

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The titles will be stripped due to the EBT tax scheme which meant Rangers weren't paying proper taxes on their players wages, this falls under illegally registering players.

Nothing to do with making a loss, or every club would face similar punishments. Very likely to get the titles taken away no matter how much of a fuss Ally McCoist protests.

I suggest you try and find this show that was on not long ago: BBC One - BBC Scotland Investigates, 2012, Rangers - The Men Who Sold the Jerseys

Explains the wrong doings at Rangers, was a lot more than just over spending.... Paying players huge extra wages without paying taxes and not informing the Scottish football governing bodies will be the reason for punishment.

The BBC's show may explain things but as I said Rangers are yet to proven guilty. How can the SPL take away titles from us when we haven't been found guilty ? It's like putting a man in the electric chair without a verdict.

The SPL and Celtic fans have just jumped on the bandwagon as usual - Celtic lost league titles and blamed the SPL & Referee's and now it's blamed on Rangers overpaying players rather than holding your hands up and saying the team was poor, the manager was poor, the tactics were poor it's our own fault! But no it's always someone else's fault bar yourselves!

The point I made about players shows that the money spent on players coming into the club weren't much different therefore the abilitys of the players couldn't have been much different due to the fact you were willing to pay alot of money for those players.
 

ajt09

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Oct 23, 2009
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The BBC's show may explain things but as I said Rangers are yet to proven guilty. How can the SPL take away titles from us when we haven't been found guilty ? It's like putting a man in the electric chair without a verdict.

The SPL and Celtic fans have just jumped on the bandwagon as usual - Celtic lost league titles and blamed the SPL & Referee's and now it's blamed on Rangers overpaying players rather than holding your hands up and saying the team was poor, the manager was poor, the tactics were poor it's our own fault! But no it's always someone else's fault bar yourselves!

The point I made about players shows that the money spent on players coming into the club weren't much different therefore the abilitys of the players couldn't have been much different due to the fact you were willing to pay alot of money for those players.
I hate the majority of the BBC's documetaries with a passion, every since they referred to Al Qeada as "freedom fighters", and went to on to blame America for 9/11-hence my nickname of the Bin Laden Broadcasting Corporation. But that's a totally seperate issue. but they are a bunch of dicks who love nothing more than portraying people etc with a negative brush.

But I am getting sick and tired of the PLAYERS referred to as cheats. All they did was their jobs on the pitch. Did what they were paid to do. They would have known nothing about the scandals taking place behind the doors. Obviously not all SPL supporters are calling them cheats-but the MAJORITY I've come across through knowing them personally or by reading various forums are labelling them cheats. Which is just......sigh. The buck is with the hierachy, not the players on the pitch, not the backroom staff, nor the manager...but the people in charge. But obviously, because of various reasons, be it politcal, religious or whatever, they won't stop their mornic points.

Should the titles be stripped? Well, there is a moral obligation to do so. But at the same time-they're going to be punishing the players who had absolutely no knowledge of what was happening. Is that fair? Obviously not. To suggest it is, is just idiotic. But the whole issue is contentious. If this was Celtic in the ****, they'd be up in arms like Rangers fans are, proclaiming it would be unjustified because the players wouldn't have known what was happening. And if they say otherwise, they're either blind or blatant liers. And it would be absolutely pathetic beyond all reason, if the rumours I hear true, that Celtic would be awarded the stripped titles. Though I don't know if that's true or not-I've just been reading up on it.

But to say the players have cheated (not on this forum btw), is just....i just want to slap them with a pilchard. The players worked their arses off on that pitch, they worked dam hard for the titles. The board might not have, but the players dam well did.
 
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maxy67

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The BBC's show may explain things but as I said Rangers are yet to proven guilty. How can the SPL take away titles from us when we haven't been found guilty ? It's like putting a man in the electric chair without a verdict.

The SPL and Celtic fans have just jumped on the bandwagon as usual - Celtic lost league titles and blamed the SPL & Referee's and now it's blamed on Rangers overpaying players rather than holding your hands up and saying the team was poor, the manager was poor, the tactics were poor it's our own fault! But no it's always someone else's fault bar yourselves!

The point I made about players shows that the money spent on players coming into the club weren't much different therefore the abilitys of the players couldn't have been much different due to the fact you were willing to pay alot of money for those players.
Your misunderstanding what Rangers have done wrong, its not a case of over paying players, or else you'd be in the same position as portsmouth. It's an issue of Rangers saying they were paying a certain amount to players (like everyone else) and then paying huge extras without paying taxes and not telling anyone about it. Rangers need to be punished because of not paying taxes.


I hate the majority of the BBC's documetaries with a passion, every since they referred to Al Qeada as "freedom fighters", and went to on to blame America for 9/11-hence my nickname of the Bin Laden Broadcasting Corporation. But that's a totally seperate issue. but they are a bunch of dicks who love nothing more than portraying people etc with a negative brush.

But I am getting sick and tired of the PLAYERS referred to as cheats. All they did was their jobs on the pitch. Did what they were paid to do. They would have known nothing about the scandals taking place behind the doors. Obviously not all SPL supporters are calling them cheats-but the MAJORITY I've come across through knowing them personally or by reading various forums are labelling them cheats. Which is just......sigh. The buck is with the hierachy, not the players on the pitch, not the backroom staff, nor the manager...but the people in charge. But obviously, because of various reasons, be it politcal, religious or whatever, they won't stop their mornic points.

Should the titles be stripped? Well, there is a moral obligation to do so. But at the same time-they're going to be punishing the players who had absolutely no knowledge of what was happening. Is that fair? Obviously not. To suggest it is, is just idiotic. But the whole issue is contentious. If this was Celtic in the ****, they'd be up in arms like Rangers fans are, proclaiming it would be unjustified because the players wouldn't have known what was happening. And if they say otherwise, they're either blind or blatant liers. And it would be absolutely pathetic beyond all reason, if the rumours I hear true, that Celtic would be awarded the stripped titles. Though I don't know if that's true or not-I've just been reading up on it.

But to say the players have cheated (not on this forum btw), is just....i just want to slap them with a pilchard. The players worked their arses off on that pitch, they worked dam hard for the titles. The board might not have, but the players dam well did.
They did know that they were getting paid extra with the EBT tax free schemes, so they aren't blameless individuals.

I'm suprised anyone who is a tax payer in the UK has any sympathy for Rangers when they haven't been paying taxes on huge amounts of money for years.
 

ajt09

Nice Guy Gramps
Oct 23, 2009
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Your misunderstanding what Rangers have done wrong, its not a case of over paying players, or else you'd be in the same position as portsmouth. It's an issue of Rangers saying they were paying a certain amount to players (like everyone else) and then paying huge extras without paying taxes and not telling anyone about it. Rangers need to be punished because of not paying taxes.


They did know that they were getting paid extra with the EBT tax free schemes, so they aren't blameless individuals.

I'm suprised anyone who is a tax payer in the UK has any sympathy for Rangers when they haven't been paying taxes on huge amounts of money for years.
Tbh I'm not a taxpayer (used to be though for good few years), however there's so many legal loopholes to be exploited by everyone, including players, that they massive tax reductions so I'm not surprised a jot any more. There's so many loopholes it's beyond ridiculous. How they haven't been closed is beyond me. so when it comes to this, it's just a mess. Saying that, don't know if the same loopholes exist in Scotland. Used to live there but don't know if they exist
 

AldoKemp-1

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Your misunderstanding what Rangers have done wrong, its not a case of over paying players, or else you'd be in the same position as portsmouth. It's an issue of Rangers saying they were paying a certain amount to players (like everyone else) and then paying huge extras without paying taxes and not telling anyone about it. Rangers need to be punished because of not paying taxes.



They were still overpaying players, But YOU are still missing the point that Rangers are still yet to be proven guilty!

And what do you say to the constant excuses regarding the Referees being blamed constantly for Celtic losing and league loss's now this has been unveiled you blame that ? Theres always another excuse of losing the league and you fans will try anything to blame something other than yourselves.

And are you trying to tell me if you had a chance to pay minimal or 0 tax and could do it, you wouldn't ? Because none of us like/enjoy paying overley pricedtaxes.
 

maxy67

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Tbh I'm not a taxpayer (used to be though for good few years), however there's so many legal loopholes to be exploited by everyone, including players, that they massive tax reductions so I'm not surprised a jot any more. There's so many loopholes it's beyond ridiculous. How they haven't been closed is beyond me. so when it comes to this, it's just a mess. Saying that, don't know if the same loopholes exist in Scotland. Used to live there but don't know if they exist
What rangers did was more than a loophole, and the money nears to over 50 million owed. I'm suprised that a major company like Rangers could get away with it for so long.

Your misunderstanding what Rangers have done wrong, its not a case of over paying players, or else you'd be in the same position as portsmouth. It's an issue of Rangers saying they were paying a certain amount to players (like everyone else) and then paying huge extras without paying taxes and not telling anyone about it. Rangers need to be punished because of not paying taxes.



They were still overpaying players, But YOU are still missing the point that Rangers are still yet to be proven guilty!

And what do you say to the constant excuses regarding the Referees being blamed constantly for Celtic losing and league loss's now this has been unveiled you blame that ? Theres always another excuse of losing the league and you fans will try anything to blame something other than yourselves.

And are you trying to tell me if you had a chance to pay minimal or 0 tax and could do it, you wouldn't ? Because none of us like/enjoy paying overley pricedtaxes.
I personally never said anything about referees... I personally blame underspending by the board.


Your not going to be able to justify Rangers not paying their taxes. Haven't been found guilty Yet. There's a large chance they will be found guilty.
 

juventus1980

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Looks like Rangers will be the new Juventus of European football. Always hard to find out that your club cheated, just hope the rangers fans will take it with a bit more acceptance than Juve have shown this year :(
 

AldoKemp-1

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You may not have said it personally but your manager certainly did! And yes they havent been found guilty yet however the spl and you and oter fans are calling for the titles to be stripped (because we are more successful) before a verdict has even been announced! Personally i wish we could just start afresh with no titles and begin again and stick 2 fingers up to te spl and every team in the spl.

We will return stronger and the fans will be behind the club, all season ticket holders i know are renewing incluing myself. Ive geard many celtic fans say theyre not because i was told that theyhave raised a juvenile ticket from £50 to £120! So much for a club who could survive without rangers!
 

Mike.

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Looks like Rangers will be the new Juventus of European football. Always hard to find out that your club cheated, just hope the rangers fans will take it with a bit more acceptance than Juve have shown this year :(
I found the way Juve acted a bit sad, though I fully understand that this was by no means the way every fan acted. But Rangers should look to the way the club organised itself and have brought themselves right back, a lot of positives to take from Juve's action. This shouldnt be the bottom, but the start of returning to the top.
 
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