Rober, Cadoni and RDFs Man Marking guide for FM 20.

Rober82

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Dec 6, 2019
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Hello again lads!

Hope you liked the training guide, we are back again this time with a man marking guide.

This story began a month ago or so, when fooling around with man marking and finding some strange results.

I think maybe it was Cadoni who started it, and the rest of us built on that and we worked together to test and find out what worked best.

So far we have come up with two types of approaches, but both are built around taking out the AI's deep playmaker, essentially cutting of the defenders target when they play out from the back. We are already using Knap tactics that are gegenpressing, and in both tactics we are using 3 players are already in this zone pressing the defenders. So this tops that pressure of, and what it does is make the defenders clear the ball, not being able to start the attack from behind.

This leads to your team winning the ball a lot, and dominating the game, while the AI struggle to create play. It does however somewhat rely on you to have, or get the right players for the marking to work, and if you can’t it’s probably the wrong player you are using.

In different tests Everton and Leicester won the league first season without signings, and in Germany the absolute worst team in the league Paderborn managed 4th and Champions league using this.


NB!
This approach needs you to work to find the player to mark before each game, as it shifts depending on their formation.
Now there are leagues and formations this works better for than others, a heavy underdog in LL might have problems doing this as well as a PL team, due to the fact that they play direct and are already planning to hoof the ball. It will however put more pressure one them in this situation, and make them miss the pass a lot.

But however with the right players and approach we found it can be incredibly useful.

We started with the Fire and Water 4321 p103, that has 2 AMCs and a AF. We used the left AMC to man mark by name (not position as not as effective), the AIs DMC.

This AMC needs to be aggressive, have stamina and work rate, anticipate well, and be brave and hopefully strong to win any duel.

The other approach is using the Fire and Water 23212 p104, that has two pressing forwards and a AMC. Here we use the left pressing forward to man mark by name the same DMC or the MC that is the one who is dropping down to get the ball.

This PF needs to be aggressive, strong, have stamina and workrate, be brave, and quick to get into pressure fast.

First let's take a look at how we set the marking:


1590167905944.png



Here you can see that we set by name and not position.

So how do we find out who to mark? The opposition report and the analyst report pre game tells you so much info.

If they use a DMC it’s easy. Select him. If they use a midfield two or three, you will need to use the analysis section of pre-game like this:


The first page under the OI report tells you that when Bruno and Pogba are playing together it is Pogba who is DLP and lowest.

You can see that on this picture from the pre match opposition reports:

1590167978237.png



The second page shows you different things for the last three games, and some specific things for their last game. They might have used different roles and players, so look for the one that fits today's lineup as you see it where you put the man who shall be marked.

You have the passing network who shows you who all pass to most, and who gets the ball most.

1590168008392.png




Next to that you have the positional heat map, this shows their normal position during games. Here it is very easy to see who is lowest of the midfielders. No picture as it is really self explanatory.

Next if you check the "team selection" of AI, it shows the last game. On that picture you see Fred playing, and as a dlp lower than Pogba.


1590168081850.png


We now know some things.

If Bruno and Pogba are playing in a midfield two, then Pogba is the lowest of the two and should be marked. If Pogba and Fred are playing , Fred is the one lowest on the pitch and the one getting the ball from the defenders.

Then go back to marking, and see who is playing. Here it is Pogba and Bruno.


1590168112948.png



By now it is obvious to man mark the lowest MC, in this case Pogba, out of the game by using your closest AMC or PF if using 2 striker tactic.

This player will will have greater chance at success the better Pressing forward he is, and we have identified the abilities aggressivity, bravery, work rate, strength, acceleration, and pace as important to do a good job for the pressing forward tactic.

For the one with 2 amcs, we recommend they have some of the same stats to do a best possible job of pressing the one marked.

The rest of the Pressing forward abilities are also handy if can be had, based on your playing level.

You can check if it is working by checking key passes of marked player, as well as "touches" and possession in the report after the game. The one you are marking should have really low scores for these.

If you are still not sure, check their roles and their PMs, comes deep to get the ball and dictates tempo are ones we look for. If they play 2 mcs, one is a DLP and the other CM, it’s the DLP we want. If no DLP, you need to investigate a bit to find out.

Normally the types that drop deep are deep lying playmakers, ball winning midfielders if playing in central midfield. Any role a DMC has should be marked.

Some formations are harder than others, and I would encourage you to try out different things, maybe you will find your way of using this with your tactic, as we are sure this works in other formations as well.

As an extreme underdog we have marked up to four players and beating Liverpool.

Their DMC, both wing backs as they are important for their team, and also one of the 2 mcs in front of the dmc who might act as a 2nd playmaker. When doing this they were totally shut down.

Here are some results with the midfielder marked, and as you can see the team marking (Everton) is dominating the game in a remarkable way.


1590168143699.png


1590168161306.png



Results using Man marking for Everton, no signings:

1590168188038.png



Here we see Evertons man marker getting almost as many tackles won, and more attempts than the Everton CBs. This of course does not take into effect the insane amount of times the defenders just clear the ball right to us because of his and the others pressure.


1590168215493.png



This is one way of getting results, and there might be others that work better for your team, your squad or your level. Still we found great results with this, and wanted to share them with you.
The best results came with 2 pressing forwards where the left one marked the AI Dmc/MC who is the link to the defence.

Let us know if you try this, and Good luck! : )
 

staviros

Member
Jan 2, 2009
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Had some really solid success with marking...then all of a sudden all the teams I played used the 523 formation and it’s stopped working. Boo.
any guidance on how to mark when up aganst 3xcd; 2xwb; 2cm...
 

Rober82

Member
Dec 6, 2019
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Had some really solid success with marking...then all of a sudden all the teams I played used the 523 formation and it’s stopped working. Boo.
any guidance on how to mark when up aganst 3xcd; 2xwb; 2cm...
Yes. That is proof it is working, and the AI is starting to create things to solve the problem. That 3 cb formation happens then.

For me I still mark one of the 3 in midfield who comes deep.

A mezzala, a ap, and a box to box will allways go forward so it is never them. Normally it is dlp, or bwm.
If they have two dlps can try using the amc on the other as well.

If not use the normal PF to mark the dlp/the guy who comes deep, and add the winger to mark the wing backs, as they play out trough them.

Test that!
 

staviros

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yeah been messing about with it......i think you are right on marking the deep midfielder.....that works...... and looks like also man marking their wigbacks negates their attacking momentum. Interestingly after a few defeats against 523....opposition teams teams reverted back to their normal formations.
Won the English Campionship (wooohoo) but marking the deep miidfield and DR + DL defo works......
 
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Rober82

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Dec 6, 2019
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yeah been messing about with it......i think you are right on marking the deep midfielder.....that works...... and looks like also man marking their wigbacks negates their attacking momentum. Interestingly after a few defeats against 523....opposition teams teams reverted back to their normal formations.
Won the English Campionship (wooohoo) but marking the deep miidfield and DR + DL defo works......
Same as our tests found. It's not an exploit, but it works really good.
 

staviros

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Great find and thanks for sharing.....let you know if I survive my first season in the EPL.....with a team of budget players
 
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staviros

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Jan 2, 2009
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similar findings for my first season in the top flight. have been using the marking but its not gone as well.....probably as i have a sub optimal team.....but the AI for premiership sides defo reacts faster to marking specific players...they move them around more....or change formation....so net of that...its not a wonder fix or exploit.....but does help. IMO the AI is far too aggressive now....and there are too many tactical variables to micro manage. in short its too hard to get consistent results unless you micro manage constantly....which is not something i want to spend my limited spare time doing.

i'd prefer plug in and play with some minor adjustments...

any other advice greatly welcome before i uninstall the game...
 

fmcadoni

Premium
Feb 19, 2019
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Athens, Greece
similar findings for my first season in the top flight. have been using the marking but its not gone as well.....probably as i have a sub optimal team.....but the AI for premiership sides defo reacts faster to marking specific players...they move them around more....or change formation....so net of that...its not a wonder fix or exploit.....but does help. IMO the AI is far too aggressive now....and there are too many tactical variables to micro manage. in short its too hard to get consistent results unless you micro manage constantly....which is not something i want to spend my limited spare time doing.

i'd prefer plug in and play with some minor adjustments...

any other advice greatly welcome before i uninstall the game...
"Mark Specific Player" isn't an exploit or P&P (Plug & Play) situation.

You need to watch - pay attention to AI what he/she doing during the match, otherwise you will get wrecked.

This guide is coming with P&P tactics to boost results, but you need carefully applying.
 

staviros

Member
Jan 2, 2009
115
7
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47
"Mark Specific Player" isn't an exploit or P&P (Plug & Play) situation.

You need to watch - pay attention to AI what he/she doing during the match, otherwise you will get wrecked.

This guide is coming with P&P tactics to boost results, but you need carefully applying.
Look forward to the guide for p&p....I’ll soldier on.

what are the ’tells’’ you look for during the match? or key variables you alter?
 

fmcadoni

Premium
Feb 19, 2019
440
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28
Athens, Greece
Look forward to the guide for p&p....I’ll soldier on.

what are the ’tells’’ you look for during the match? or key variables you alter?
During commentary, I am always looking to formation change.

I had an AI manager change 3 times formation during the match and put different player to deepest MC / DM position.

Sometimes is good to use Mark Specific Player and sometimes not. It's not something "place and leave it here".

For example: You have a 442 tactic. It's obvious that one of your striker will be sacrifice if you tell him to MSP (Mark Specific Player).

That X player will run back and forward like a crazy to mark his designed player, but in counter attacking phase, that X player maybe will start to run from your defence while your second striker is in opposition DL (defence line).

So, it's not always working, but the majority of AI don't know how to handle the "No option to pass" or having his regular build-up play. There MSP kicks in.
 

staviros

Member
Jan 2, 2009
115
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During commentary, I am always looking to formation change.

I had an AI manager change 3 times formation during the match and put different player to deepest MC / DM position.

Sometimes is good to use Mark Specific Player and sometimes not. It's not something "place and leave it here".

For example: You have a 442 tactic. It's obvious that one of your striker will be sacrifice if you tell him to MSP (Mark Specific Player).

That X player will run back and forward like a crazy to mark his designed player, but in counter attacking phase, that X player maybe will start to run from your defence while your second striker is in opposition DL (defence line).

So, it's not always working, but the majority of AI don't know how to handle the "No option to pass" or having his regular build-up play. There MSP kicks in.
Spent an hour reading the guides on fm scout Site. Really good info on there....so will try again over the weekend...
 

staviros

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Jan 2, 2009
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Spent an hour reading the guides on fm scout Site. Really good info on there....so will try again over the weekend...
Candoni

Update....so played through a full season in the premier league.....changes that i made:

1. Removed TI to counter press.....replaced it with OI to press specific players only
2. Removed TI to get stuck in.....replaced with OI to tackle hard on specific players per match
3. Removed TI to mark tighter....replaced with OI to tight mark specific players
4. Removed individual player instructions to tackle hard as well (yellow card count was horrible)

Basically removed TI and replaced with individual tackle harder, press and tight mark.

Finished 9th in the EPL (that was a miracle) and made the FA Cup final (another miracle).
Pretty pleased all round....i've now left OI to the Assistant Manager.....and the tactic is much more stable and results are less exaggerated.
Will continue with it next season.....and fingers crossed it continues to deliver above average
 

Rober82

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Dec 6, 2019
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What level is your team at, and which tactic do you use?

I used this to win the league with Everton no signings, and Oxford United newly promoted. Should be working better than 9th place.
 

staviros

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Jan 2, 2009
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What level is your team at, and which tactic do you use?

I used this to win the league with Everton no signings, and Oxford United newly promoted. Should be working better than 9th place.
are you saying you won the epl with oxford United?
 

staviros

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Jan 2, 2009
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What level is your team at, and which tactic do you use?

I used this to win the league with Everton no signings, and Oxford United newly promoted. Should be working better than 9th place.
Rober
Tactic...originally Knap blues...now with my tweaks
team level not really sure what you mean but started in the vanarama and now up to EPL....have signed a few 10m players which also helping results.
stopped using man mark for now....just Oi.....
 

Rober82

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Dec 6, 2019
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Rober
Tactic...originally Knap blues...now with my tweaks
team level not really sure what you mean but started in the vanarama and now up to EPL....have signed a few 10m players which also helping results.
stopped using man mark for now....just Oi.....
So you are first season in PL?

I found that it works less good with MM if not a AMC. I tried MM with a 433, but no AMC to pressure other midfielder, so he can just pass to him.

This is with Union Berlin in Germany, no signings.

Fire and Water 23212 p104. Only left PF marking dlp/mc who is deepest.
 

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staviros

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Jan 2, 2009
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So you are first season in PL?

I found that it works less good with MM if not a AMC. I tried MM with a 433, but no AMC to pressure other midfielder, so he can just pass to him.

This is with Union Berlin in Germany, no signings.

Fire and Water 23212 p104. Only left PF marking dlp/mc who is deepest.
wow. this is great.
in my second season epl now. and i have to say results are going well with the 'simple' model.....so might try a few save a relaods trying the mark DLP over the weekend.
have a great weekend.

Project vanarama to the champs league has afew mores season left yet......and then i will start all over again.
 
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