Ronaldo or Messi?

[DMF]

Scoring 4 against arsenal.....

1 game.

Every other time he's played against an English team he's been average at best.

Berbatov scored 5 vs Blackburn. Doesn't mean he's amazing does it?

 

[Cloud~]

1 game.

Every other time he's played against an English team he's been average at best.

Berbatov scored 5 vs Blackburn. Doesn't mean he's amazing does it?

Can't really compare Blackburn to Arsenal but then again, our defence was shocking, even worse than it is now infact lol..

 

[DMF]

Can't really compare Blackburn to Arsenal but then again, our defence was shocking, even worse than it is now infact lol..

The point remains. Messi scored 4 goals against a team that was poor on the day. Berbatov scored 5 against a team that was poor on the day.

Messi has been average every other time he's played an English side. Berbatov has been lazy a lot of the time bar this season. 1 game defines nothing.

 

[Ben]

Messi showed how much better he was in El Clasico.

 

[Supermunky16]

Ronaldo's playing better then messi at the minute, hes become more of a team player since at madrid!

 

[Athe~]

Ronaldo's playing better then messi at the minute, hes become more of a team player since at madrid!

I'm clearly missing something here.

 

[GodCubed]

Messi has been average every other time he's played an English side. Berbatov has been lazy a lot of the time bar this season. 1 game defines nothing.

I reiterate from a while ago: Champions League final 2009? The one where Messi caused widespread panic amongst the United defence and topped it off by scoring a header?

 

[Ben]

Ronaldo's playing better then messi at the minute, hes become more of a team player since at madrid!

As he showed by shooting virtually everytime he had the ball against Barca.

 

[Pigeonman13]

screw messi and ronaldo...pedro is out scoring them both

 

[curtis290]

Coming from the people who both support Argentina clubs, so i would hazard a guess, supporters of the Argentina national side... So your view is completely what non biased.

If anything i should hate Ronaldo, he treated my club like **** when he left, showed no respect, but he is still the best player in world football.

I'm not Argentine, so why would I be biased towards an Argentine player? Also, your argument was "Ronaldo scores more for the NT so he's better." When someone posted stats that showed otherwise, you said "well the Argentine team is better," meaning you think that Messi should score twice as much as Ronaldo I guess, to which we both replied that your argument was utter nonsense. If we're Argentine national team supporters, we wouldn't disagree with you in your claim that Argentina's NT is better. As I said before, you're oversimplifying a lot here, Argentina's national team has been **** for the past few years because their players don't play well together, it's a very unbalanced team, and they've had horrible coaching. All of the Argentine players underperform for the Argentine NT, and Messi is the engine that drives that team. Anyone that watches them a lot knows that he's usually their best and most important player. Messi's role for the national is also very different than CR's, Messi is more of a distributor and CR a goal-scorer. If anything, CR should score more for his national team because the Argentine national team has far many more attacking options, but Messi scores more. These are just a few reasons of why your argument is a total oversimplication of a lot of complicated factors.

As for you, it's very obvious you're very biased so questioning our argumentation on counts of biased is really hypocritical, you already said you hate Messi, and it's all the more obvious when you pull out poor arguments like this. He's Argentine and he plays for Barca, so I'm not surprised you hate him.

Are you honestly trying to state that Argentina's side is not better than Portugal's?

I'm Portuguese so I watch every match of theirs, and their squad is far inferior to that of Argentina's.

Again, it comes down to opinion and IN MY OPINION Ronaldo is better than Messi.

First of all, I was responding to Scott's argument not yours. Second, see above. Also, the Argentine national team has consistently played like **** for the last few years and barely qualified for the World Cup. Third, I respect your opinion, but then some of your posts certainly make it seem like you are arguing that Ronaldo is objectively better than Messi, so that's a contradiction. Also, if you make terrible arguments, like the one below, it seems like you're just searching for reasons due to your bias for the player (which I'm sure you do considering he's in your sig) rather than making the claims based on rationality.

The point remains. Messi scored 4 goals against a team that was poor on the day. Berbatov scored 5 against a team that was poor on the day.

Messi has been average every other time he's played an English side. Berbatov has been lazy a lot of the time bar this season. 1 game defines nothing.

And how many times has Messi played English sides? He destroyed Arsenal, was great in the Champions League final against ManU, in the 08 knockout round against ManU he controlled the game but his team played like **** and ManU won (Rijkaard era). He was also very good against Chelsea in the knockout rounds in 09. He has hardly played against English teams and has consistently proven himself against the top teams in the world, and the few times he did play against English teams, he played very well...another woefully terrible argument.



The other arguments for why CR is better than Messi are sooo much better than these, and posting dribble like this only makes you look biased. How about the fact that CR has completely carried this Real Madrid team on his back the past two seasons? Messi is surrounded by great players on Barca and he certainly doesn't carry the team like CR does. He's not nearly as important. If Barca loses Messi, it's a huge blow, but if Real Madrid loses CR, they are absolutely ******. Also, look at ManU since CR left. Their young players have gotten better, Nani has emerged into one of the Premiership's best players, Berbatov is finally doing his job, and they've made a great signing in Hernandez. Yet they're not half as good as they were from 07-09, when CR was lighting the Premiership on fire. Sure they'll win the Prem this year and possibly the FA Cup, and they'll do damage in the CL as long as they keep getting favorable draws, but that's only from lack of competition.

Or how about the fact that Messi is much more specialized than CR...CR could literally fit well into any team in any league. He can play as a traditional winger or as a striker and excels at both. Messi? He pretty much has to play as a forward in a 4-3-3, and his effectiveness is greatly reduced when he doesn't play this role. Under Maradona in the WC he was played as the AMC in a traditional 4-4-2 diamond, and although he did very well, that position doesn't play to his strengths. He's still improving and is playing as more like a traditional forward for Barca this season, but you can't play him as a winger and as a striker I think he needs two other good strikers to feed off of.

There's plenty of good arguments for why CR is better, so just use them if you want people to take you seriously.

 

[sunilvk7]

And how many times has Messi played English sides? He destroyed Arsenal, was great in the Champions League final against ManU, in the 08 knockout round against ManU he controlled the game but his team played like **** and ManU won (Rijkaard era). He was also very good against Chelsea in the knockout rounds in 09. He has hardly played against English teams and has consistently proven himself against the top teams in the world, and the few times he did play against English teams, he played very well...another woefully terrible argument.

I agree with most of what you said except few.

Against United in 08 he was not good. He was ineffective for the whole game.
Against Chelsea he was completely marked out of the game. You are completely biased here.

Also, look at ManU since CR left. Their young players have gotten better, Nani has emerged into one of the Premiership's best players, Berbatov is finally doing his job, and they've made a great signing in Hernandez. Yet they're not half as good as they were from 07-09, when CR was lighting the Premiership on fire. Sure they'll win the Prem this year and possibly the FA Cup, and they'll do damage in the CL as long as they keep getting favorable draws, but that's only from lack of competition.

We missed league by whisker last season and this season we are top of the league. Not that league lacks quality. Here the quality is evenly spread rather than 2 teams like La liga.

4th ranked team in PL beat First ranked team in Serie A and also Inter who won Serie A for 5 years

2nd ranked team beat Barca who are beating La liga teams for fun.

That means we dont have a dominant team in this league as all the teams are having quality players and teams are eqaully good.

And we dont need favorable draws. We missed out last time coz of bad luck. On any other day we would have torn the Bayern into new one. With Rafael's red card game changed completely.

 

[Alex]

1 game.

Every other time he's played against an English team he's been average at best.

Berbatov scored 5 vs Blackburn. Doesn't mean he's amazing does it?

Your comment in the 'Your clubs best player this season' thread would suggest otherwise:

Dimitar Berbatov. Who else?

.....

The point remains. Messi scored 4 goals against a team that was poor on the day. Berbatov scored 5 against a team that was poor on the day.

Messi has been average every other time he's played an English side. Berbatov has been lazy a lot of the time bar this season. 1 game defines nothing.

I'm pretty sure when Ronaldo played for United he didn't exactly stand out against Spanish opposition...

 

[DMF]

Your comment in the 'Your clubs best player this season' thread would suggest otherwise:



.....



I'm pretty sure when Ronaldo played for United he didn't exactly stand out against Spanish opposition...

He has been our best player this season after Nani - but he's not being called the best player in the world is he.

Ronaldo didn't stand out against them, but he's there now and is by far Real Madrid's best player. Messi had one game against a makeshift Arsenal defence and put them to the sword. But he's done nothing since/before that. Ronaldo has gone to the league and ripped it to shreds.

I've already said this - Barcelona > Real Madrid - Ronaldo > Messi IMO.

I'm not going to comment on this thread anymore. It's pointless because it's all opinion.

 

[Alex]

He has been our best player this season after Nani - but he's not being called the best player in the world is he.

Ronaldo didn't stand out against them, but he's there now and is by far Real Madrid's best player. Messi had one game against a makeshift Arsenal defence and put them to the sword. But he's done nothing since/before that. Ronaldo has gone to the league and ripped it to shreds.

I've already said this - Barcelona > Real Madrid - Ronaldo > Messi IMO.

I'm not going to comment on this thread anymore. It's pointless because it's all opinion.

Ronaldo didn't stand out against any Spanish teams for United but now he is. Who's to say that Messi won't do that if he ever camt to England?

Tbh, I don't see why he should come to England, he is at the best club in the world, enjoying his football. He has no reason to come over here. He has nothing to prove.

 

[Scott]

I reiterate from a while ago: Champions League final 2009? The one where Messi caused widespread panic amongst the United defence and topped it off by scoring a header?

I will reiterate my response from a little while ago: Messi did score a header and played well but not amazing, nor did he scare the United defence. Eto's pace and the brilliance of Xavi that day cost united. Nothing else. The star was Xavi, Messi was simply the half time show.

I'm not Argentine, so why would I be biased towards an Argentine player? Also, your argument was "Ronaldo scores more for the NT so he's better." When someone posted stats that showed otherwise, you said "well the Argentine team is better," meaning you think that Messi should score twice as much as Ronaldo I guess, to which we both replied that your argument was utter nonsense. If we're Argentine national team supporters, we wouldn't disagree with you in your claim that Argentina's NT is better. As I said before, you're oversimplifying a lot here, Argentina's national team has been **** for the past few years because their players don't play well together, it's a very unbalanced team, and they've had horrible coaching. All of the Argentine players underperform for the Argentine NT, and Messi is the engine that drives that team. Anyone that watches them a lot knows that he's usually their best and most important player. Messi's role for the national is also very different than CR's, Messi is more of a distributor and CR a goal-scorer. If anything, CR should score more for his national team because the Argentine national team has far many more attacking options, but Messi scores more. These are just a few reasons of why your argument is a total oversimplication of a lot of complicated factors.

As for you, it's very obvious you're very biased so questioning our argumentation on counts of biased is really hypocritical, you already said you hate Messi, and it's all the more obvious when you pull out poor arguments like this. He's Argentine and he plays for Barca, so I'm not surprised you hate him.

First of all i take it you mean the stat which showed Ronaldo had a better goal to games ratio for the national team...? Ronaldo plays in a weaker national team, and scores on a more regular basis.

I dont hate Messi, Barcelona granted i ******* hate, But Messi? No.

Ronaldo didn't stand out against any Spanish teams for United but now he is. Who's to say that Messi won't do that if he ever camt to England?

Tbh, I don't see why he should come to England, he is at the best club in the world, enjoying his football. He has no reason to come over here. He has nothing to prove.

Well, Messi needs to come to England to prove he can do it... before you anyone can say, he will, He needs to prove it.

Andy very nicely provided a list of the 20 greatest players from google.. Well all of them bar a select few had played in Multiple top world leagues... Whilst the others had amazing international records.. Now Messi has not done/ got either of these things, So to be classed as the best, surely he has to do what the best does... As the very greatest can do things outside there confort zone, Whilst Messi is in a team built around him.

 

[Alex]

Well, Messi needs to come to England to prove he can do it... before you anyone can say, he will, He needs to prove it.

Andy very nicely provided a list of the 20 greatest players from google.. Well all of them bar a select few had played in Multiple top world leagues... Whilst the others had amazing international records.. Now Messi has not done/ got either of these things, So to be classed as the best, surely he has to do what the best does... As the very greatest can do things outside there confort zone, Whilst Messi is in a team built around him.

The man has absolutely nothing to prove, he has been voted world player of the year two years running. Has scored something like 168 in 250 for Barca and granted he hasn't been prolific for Argentina but contrary to belief, he is still involved in a lot of their goals. Why does he need to prove anything?

Again, he has no reason to come to England, why should he?!

He has **** all to prove to anyone.

 

[Scott]

The man has absolutely nothing to prove, he has been voted world player of the year two years running. Has scored something like 168 in 250 for Barca and granted he hasn't been prolific for Argentina but contrary to belief, he is still involved in a lot of their goals. Why does he need to prove anything?

Again, he has no reason to come to England, why should he?!

He has **** all to prove to anyone.

He has done all that in his confort zone Alex...The true Greats do all that at more then one club, to show they can play in different league, climates and circumstnces.

 

[Caldz123]

He has done all that in his confort zone Alex...The true Greats do all that at more then one club, to show they can play in different league, climates and circumstnces.

No they dont, he doesn't need to prove himself as he is playing in the best league in the world and for the best team in the world. He is dedicated to Barcelona and will not leave them so doesn't that make him even more of a great that he is dedicaed unlike the majority of players in this day and age.

 

[Scott]

No they dont, he doesn't need to prove himself as he is playing in the best league in the world and for the best team in the world. He is dedicated to Barcelona and will not leave them so doesn't that make him even more of a great that he is dedicaed unlike the majority of players in this day and age.

Best team.. Yes

Best League? Nope. He is playing in a 2 horse leaague, where you know Barcelona and Madrid will be the top 2, bar some sort of Crisis. In My opinion he needs to and should test himself in a new situation/ league to be classed as a true great of world football.

 

[curtis290]

I agree with most of what you said except few.

Against United in 08 he was not good. He was ineffective for the whole game.
Against Chelsea he was completely marked out of the game. You are completely biased here.

I really disagree that he wasn't good against ManU in 08. His whole team was **** and he did everything possible to keep them in the game and didn't score because of really good goalkeeping if I remember correctly. I talked to several English afterwards that told me he was the best player in that game (can't remember if they were ManU fans or not). As for the Chelsea games, it's been a long time, but I remember him playing well in both legs. My point is though that you can't judge a player just based on a handful of CL games, especially someone like Messi who the other team will be focused on entirely. And that he has played well several times in CL games against top teams, English teams included. Anyway, he has been on this level for only about two and a half seasons now, so there's not much to judge him off of. So judge him on the body of work he does have, and use other arguments to say way CR is better.

We missed league by whisker last season and this season we are top of the league. Not that league lacks quality. Here the quality is evenly spread rather than 2 teams like La liga.

4th ranked team in PL beat First ranked team in Serie A and also Inter who won Serie A for 5 years

2nd ranked team beat Barca who are beating La liga teams for fun.

That means we dont have a dominant team in this league as all the teams are having quality players and teams are eqaully good.

And we dont need favorable draws. We missed out last time coz of bad luck. On any other day we would have torn the Bayern into new one. With Rafael's red card game changed completely.

As for the Bayern games, I think you're being a little biased, Bayern was a great team that season and they played their hearts out and won fair and square. Even if the red card hadn't happened, I don't think they would have 'torn them apart.' Maybe they would have won maybe they would have lost, but I don't think ManU last season was all that much better than Bayern. As far as favorable draws go, here's my prediction: ManU and Real Madrid get drawn into the same bracket, and the other two teams will be the weakest two left out of the 8. My guess is that ManU and Real Madrid will play against each other in the round of 8, meaning the winner goes to the final. It's the matchup that everyone wants to see, and I have to admit I'd love to watch it. Can't even decide who I'd be rooting against.

Anyway, I don't want to turn this into a La Liga vs. EPL debate, and I've already said before I think the Prem is the best league in the world. But there really isn't that much of a difference between the top 4 leagues. Yeah, Serie A has no really good teams this year. AC Milan definitely has the firepower but can they put it together? Do they have the right manager? Napoli is very good this season but they wouldn't be top two in Spain or England. Inter has the hangover and lots of injury problems and Leonardo is just a terrible manager. Roma's in trouble as is Juve. So the top teams in Serie A aren't good this season. Do I think Serie A is much worse than the other big 3? Of course not. Because the bottom and middle tier teams are as strong as ever, just as good as they are in other countries.

The same goes for Spain: they have to two best teams in the world by far that are running away with the league, so everyone thinks it's ****, but that's totally unfair. The bottom and middle tier teams are great, just as good as in England, Italy, or Germany. Look at how talented Sevilla and Atletico Madrid are and how much they are struggling...it's because there are no easy games in La Liga. Sure, if you're out of this world like Barca and Real Madrid are right now, you're going to win almost all of your games. But that doesn't mean the league as a whole is bad. As for the Prem, they have no very good teams. I don't think this year's ManU or Arsenal are very memorable compared to what we've had in the past in the Prem. As for the top 5, it's strong as a whole, because ManCity, Chelsea, and Tottenham are great for the 3rd, 4th, and 5th places in a league. But does that mean that teams 6-20 are much different from the 6-20 in Italy or Spain? I don't think so. And I actually think if we look at the bottom half of the leagues, the Bundesliga is probably the strongest. That's why teams out of nowhere can challenge for the title. Sure, they don't have an established big 4, 5, or 6 like the other leagues, but their bottom teams are really strong.

Anyway, that's way off-topic. My point is that the ManU team from 07-09 was a lot better than the one the past two seasons, and I think it mostly has to do with Ronaldo leaving. Yeah they were close to winning the league in 09-10, but Chelsea wasn't that spectacular that season. As for this season, my point is that there are no real contenders. I don't think they've been all that great this season, efficient, but not nearly as good before. They're a lock for the title though because who else realistically could take it? Man City is a season or two away from being title contenders. Obviously not Tottenham and Chelsea. Arsenal is good this season and they would be much, much better if they had had Vermaelen. I honestly think if Vermaelen and Van Persie were in the whole season that they would have taken the title by several points. I mean, imagine if Vidic had been out for the whole year. But I digress. My point is simply that ManU is not the team the were a few seasons ago, and that's because of Ronaldo. Which shows how amazingly talented he is.