Royal bank of scouse

Hicks and Gillet have a financing agreement with the bank, they cannot force administration.

All in all though, it may not be the best thing for the club, as we could end up with anyone owning it, atleast with Broughton heading the deals we'll definitely be getting a new stadium and guaranteed investment

P.S - If they took control of the club, they would have to wipe the debts, because the club would be the payment for the debt, such as forfeiting on a mortgage, you lose your house but the mortgage is paid.
 
Google News is still giving only three stories for this and one of them is a rehash of the other, so I am not sure if this is true or just a hoax. I hope it is true. I like ManU more, but the state of Liverpool pains me. I mean, to not even be in the CL!
 
arun said:
Google News is still giving only three stories for this and one of them is a rehash of the other, so I am not sure if this is true or just a hoax. I hope it is true. I like ManU more, but the state of Liverpool pains me. I mean, to not even be in the CL!
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you support both liverpool and manchester united - where are you from?

have you not heard of the great rivalry, and the hatred we have of eachother!?
 
*Jones* said:
you support both liverpool and manchester united - where are you from?

have you not heard of the great rivalry, and the hatred we have of eachother!?
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That's why there are three exclamation marks! ;)

I know of the rivalry but I can't help it. I really like both teams. Not being English helps, of course. You guys will never be able to completely understand it, just as I can't understand the fierce rivalry completely.
 
I dont think this is a Hoax because Zebedee has be saying this could happen for a while now and i trust him 10x more than any newspaper. :P
 
We always knew this was the case since they re-financed anyway, We just need some decent owners who are going to give roy the resources he needs, and hopefully invest more into the academy!
 
themadsheep2001 said:
thats a bit grim, how could they force this to court, on what grounds?
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The club has debts of over £410m right now (say £250m to RBS, £160m to Tom and George via inter-company loans).

So if RBS takes the club then RBS' debt would be cleared and they'd be looking to sell the club on to get back their money. But would the £160m owed to Tom and George be cleared too? The answer to that will depend on a lot of things, but it's running up interest at 10% a year (double what you'd expect the interest on a bank loan to be) so no sane buyer would leave that in place.

Tom and George can't call in their £160m if it would trigger insolvency etc. But RBS taking over itself may be viewed as triggering insolvency, thus allowing Tom and George to call in their loan too. Personally, I think the holding company directly above the club must be exceptionally close to trading while insolvent right now but obviously that's based on forward predictions on accounts which are a year and more old. As soon as the board are legally obliged to declare that is the case, then all creditors will have to be paid.
 
If RBS claim the club, then the clubs debt is passed to RBS is it not? Meaning hicks and gillet could try to claim there 160M from the new owners, but the fact they just forfeit their debt to RBS would write the 160M off in turn, ?

Or am i way off the mark?
 
I'm no expert but the debts could be just wiped - ie they don't exist. The other possibility is they get pennies to the pound
 
Riddick87 said:
If RBS claim the club, then the clubs debt is passed to RBS is it not? Meaning hicks and gillet could try to claim there 160M from the new owners, but the fact they just forfeit their debt to RBS would write the 160M off in turn, ?

Or am i way off the mark?
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What will happen if the club isn't sold is that RBS will take over control of the club and the americans will lose any control they have at the club and technically the debt will be wiped out by RBS as they will be in control of looking for a buyer for the club meaning that it would be alot easier to sell the club and potential investors are more likely to want to invest in Liverpool FC as they (the club) will not have any outstanding debts.
 
Yea i know that, but what about the debt the club owes to other creditors, do RBS assume the debt, is it wiped off, or does it stay with the holding company?
 
Riddick87 said:
Yea i know that, but what about the debt the club owes to other creditors, do RBS assume the debt, is it wiped off, or does it stay with the holding company?
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That I assume stays with the club unless RBS choose to pay it off. Not sure what debt they have to anyone else personally but I dont think that it would be a huge amount or atleast enough to worry a potential investor.
 
Probably help if I set this out:

Liverpool Football Club and Athletic Grounds Ltd (so that's the club): owes the banks at least £36.5m and Kop Football Limited around £110m.

Above 'the club' there's a holding company called Kop Football Limited - this is what Tom and George initially used to buy the club. Kop Football Limited owes the banks at least £197.5m and owes Kop Football Holdings around £159m. This includes the money owed by 'the club'.

Above Kop Football Limited, there's a holding company called Kop Football Holdings. This is the company which is believed to be the one being sold (or not sold heh). Kop Football Holdings owes the banks at least £234m and owes Kop Football Cayman around £159m. This includes the money owed by 'the club' and Kop Football Limited.

Above Kop Football Holdings, is a holding company based in the tax haven of the Cayman Islands called Kop Cayman. No information is known about this company because of it being located in a tax haven.

It is believed (although we're not 100% sure) that directly above Kop Cayman is a holding company based in the tax haven of the US state of Delaware called Kop Investment. Somehow Tom and George then own Kop Investment - there may be more holding companies (it seem's like George has at least two more but again we can't be sure). And again, as this is a tax haven, we know nothing about this company.

So here's the thing - Kop Football Holdings is taken over by RBS. That's £234m of bank debt (at least) cleared and RBS will be looking to make that money back by then selling the club. But Kop Football Holdings also owes money, ultimately, to Tom and George too. That debt doesn't just vanish. So what happens to it? And if RBS have repossessed their security for their loans, isn't that essentially declaring Kop Football Holdings insolvent which means Tom and George can then demand their money must be paid back too?

It's a huge stinking mess. I hate those two tw*ts. We welcomed to the club and the city and they've p*ssed everywhere and now seem determined to sh*t on the doorstep on the way out.
 
I get whats going on, The one part i dont understand is about the money owed to Tom and George (who in my eyes shouldn't be given a damned thing).

Kop Football Holdings would be one of the holding companies claimed by RBS for Tom and George's debt. Surely any debt owed to them would be written off? Or RBS would drag it through court to have it written off, im sure they have a case?

Would the money not go in a circle first? to pay off Tom and George, then used to pay towards the 234M bank debt, bringing it down to 124M, in which case RBS could still claim control ?
 
If your house got repossessed because you couldn't pay the mortgage, the money you owe for buying your sofa and tv doesn't get written off even if the bailiffs impound them.
 
if my house owes me money and its repossesed, do i get that money?
 
If your house had another mortgage out to a company you owned, then you'd be entitled to claim any of the excess after the primary creditor was paid in full. And you could go to court if you thought the primary creditor wasn't accepting the best offer on the table.
 
In short, the loan would still exist to Gillet etc, however RBS could claim the majority of the sale of the club (after they sell it on) as they are the primary creditor. The loan to Gillet and Hicks wouldn't vanish though, you are right, it would need to be met, and considering they would have lost control of the club at that point, insolvency would be the only true option to clear it entirely where the club would have to use asset sales to generate funds.
 
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