Scoring problems with Bordeaux

[PeteF]

Formation

View attachment 985457

Team instructions

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The only player instructions I have are:

Fullbacks: Cut inside
Defensive Mid: Shot less and Fewer risky passes

I'm managing Bordeaux in Ligue 1. First season. I'm currently in 7th, 4 points behind the 4th with 22 games played of 38. I expect to finish top4.
The media predicts I finish 7th, but I think I can do better than that.

I expect the striker and inside forwards to score the goals and the advanced playmaker and inside forwards to assist them. I read that with this formation a F9 would be a better choice, but I want my striker to score more than assist.

About defending, I use a high line, my center backs are fast enough to get the balls I believe. I use a defensive midfielder too, so he can help the center backs in the defending department. I read that if use a flat midfielder with 3, the fullbacks would have less work as they would have the help of my midfielders to stop skilled wingers. The main problem with this formation is the space between the IF's and the FB's, and I don't really know how to fix this... maybe I should try the flat midfielder after all, but then I'm not sure that the center backs could defend themselves alone.

My main problems are, my shots don't usually cause any trouble to the other team. I can get 15-25 shots and only 4-6 are on target. Other problem is that although I don't allow many shots, if the team can get 2 or 3 on target they usually are score... It really gets me frustrated because I need 20 shots to score and they only need 1 or 2... Here are a few examples Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

I will also leave this screens if they can be of any use

View attachment 985488

Notes:

- I play FM Classic or Touch, the ME is the same but I don't have team talks and I don't use OI's.
- I used more than one tactic so far, and I didn't have much success (In this mode there is no penalty for not having familiarity in tactics)

 

[Keith Ang]

Pete for me the problem with the fb and IF is because you asked your fb to cut in. Basically IF are instructed to cut in by default and if u notice that's what they do Alot. The support IF tends to cut in Alot earlier if I'm not wrong. So when u get your fb to cut in too when the team is attacking the fb and IF tend to stick together hence u end with pocket holes on the wing without players. The fb and IF will be on each other toes and u will probably lose possession because of that. Basically, your ti and formation is about the same as mine. I'm not sure if it would work but try normal tempo instead of lower.

 

[WJ]

Sooooo many times I see a tactic that's not too bad on paper, looking at the roles and duties - until I see the team instructions.

Now it brings me to a few questions. I'm going to ask them, but don't assume it is wrong. Try and give an answer. If you can't, it's probably an issue. I'm trying to get an idea of the thinking here.

1 - First thing I noticed, you have an AP/A - your only playmaker, so an important player - who likes to pick up the ball and run while looking for a through ball. Who is he supplying?

2 - Is the player(s) that he is supposed to be supplying close to him, considering you have a very short passing range?

3 - Why do you have Retain Possession ticked? Are you aware of what the instruction does?

4 - Same questions as in no3. for Work Ball Into Box.

5 - Why Play Out Of Defence? Who will be expected to carry the ball out of defence? And then?

6 - With Run At Defence, you're expecting any of the front 3 to do that. Do they have the space to do so?

7 - What's the reason for the low tempo?

8 - What is your shape like when you lose the ball in the final third? Who is covering against counter attacks?

-----

I know the answer to your shooting issues and I have a few options you can consider for the defending on the flanks, but I'd like to hear the answers first.

 

[Keith Ang]

Nice wj. Like where you are going with this. Started me thinking about my own tacts too.. Thumbs up and a 1000 likes.

 

[only1tinoasprilla]

Sooooo many times I see a tactic that's not too bad on paper, looking at the roles and duties - until I see the team instructions.

Now it brings me to a few questions. I'm going to ask them, but don't assume it is wrong. Try and give an answer. If you can't, it's probably an issue. I'm trying to get an idea of the thinking here.

1 - First thing I noticed, you have an AP/A - your only playmaker, so an important player - who likes to pick up the ball and run while looking for a through ball. Who is he supplying?

2 - Is the player(s) that he is supposed to be supplying close to him, considering you have a very short passing range?

3 - Why do you have Retain Possession ticked? Are you aware of what the instruction does?

4 - Same questions as in no3. for Work Ball Into Box.

5 - Why Play Out Of Defence? Who will be expected to carry the ball out of defence? And then?

6 - With Run At Defence, you're expecting any of the front 3 to do that. Do they have the space to do so?

7 - What's the reason for the low tempo?

8 - What is your shape like when you lose the ball in the final third? Who is covering against counter attacks?

-----

I know the answer to your shooting issues and I have a few options you can consider for the defending on the flanks, but I'd like to hear the answers first.

love this reply

 

[PeteF]

Sooooo many times I see a tactic that's not too bad on paper, looking at the roles and duties - until I see the team instructions.

Now it brings me to a few questions. I'm going to ask them, but don't assume it is wrong. Try and give an answer. If you can't, it's probably an issue. I'm trying to get an idea of the thinking here.

1 - First thing I noticed, you have an AP/A - your only playmaker, so an important player - who likes to pick up the ball and run while looking for a through ball. Who is he supplying?

2 - Is the player(s) that he is supposed to be supplying close to him, considering you have a very short passing range?

3 - Why do you have Retain Possession ticked? Are you aware of what the instruction does?

4 - Same questions as in no3. for Work Ball Into Box.

5 - Why Play Out Of Defence? Who will be expected to carry the ball out of defence? And then?

6 - With Run At Defence, you're expecting any of the front 3 to do that. Do they have the space to do so?

7 - What is your shape like when you lose the ball in the final third? Who is covering against counter attacks?

-----

I know the answer to your shooting issues and I have a few options you can consider for the defending on the flanks, but I'd like to hear the answers first.

****.. :O

My idea was to follow some simple rules, like- have a attack and support player in defense, have a def/supp and attack in mid and then I just have a att IF and another supporting.

1- I was expecting the playmaker to organize my game, control the game according to the needs of the team and also to give the ball to my IF and striker.

2- My passing is mixed, I think he can connect to my left IF and to my striker. Maybe I should ask him to use a more direct pass or play narrow?

3- I have retain possession ticked because I want my team to have the ball and control the pace of the game, and since I play with 3 midfielders I think it's easy for them to control the possession. Maybe I'm a bit confused, but I'm afraid that if I don't retain possession then the other team will have more possession and they can create more chances to score. I expect my team to defend with the ball, but I'm probably doing something wrong. Although I can follow Mourinho's advice and let the other team have the ball expecting them to have more pressure and make mores mistakes that I can profit from, I didn't think of that until now, but that's probably what happens to my team and the reason I concede so many goals late in the game. They pressure my tired team that was asked to retain possession....

4- This one I have mostly because of my poor ratio of goals/shots. I have no idea why my team needs 20 shots to score 1 goal, probably because they shot from stupid places. Maybe this option is better for teams that have more players in the box, formations like 4-4-2. But now that think of it, I want my team to cross and play more direct to my striker, so I think I shouldn't play with work ball into box.

5- I selected play out of defense because I don't want my keeper to throw the ball forward and risk to lose it, I want my team to start playing from the back, but I see what you mean and I should play with a deep lying playmaker. I will swap my ball winning mid. I expect my dlp to connect the game with the other midfielders and the IF's.

6- I don't know really....I just want my IF's to get past the defenders, cut inside to assist my striker, cross or shot. Maybe using this my IF's are losing the ball often to the other team trying to drible their defenders. But if I don't use it will they stop from trying to get past them? Even if they are not good defenders? I'm confused about this one, I'm probably going to play without it and see how it goes.

7- I use low tempo because I want my team to think more about their options, don't rush the pass and risk to lose the ball, because that can provide the opposition a counter... maybe if I played a little faster I could surprise the other team more often but I don't know if I want to take that chance.

8- When the other team counters my team seems surprised and out of shape. They seem a lot slower than the opposition. They usually chip the ball over my CB's or cross from the line. I don't remember the counters to be so deadly like they are this year and I get really frustrated about it, because most of the time they are actually outnumbered. It confuses me how they can cross so easily and still get the header when I have two CB's in the box and they only have 1 striker...


I liked your questions, It get me thinking more about my instructions. I'm gonna change a few things. I would like to know more about player instructions, can anyone recommend me a good and updated guide? I don't use them as much as I could and think they are vital to the game.

Edited to cover all points.
Edited2 - I made a few grammatical mistakes, I'm sorry but English is not my first language.

 

[RonaldoReal9King]

****.. :O

My idea was to follow some simple rules, like- have a attack and support player in defense, have a def/supp and attack in mid and then I just have a att IF and another supporting.

1- I was expecting the playmaker to organize my game, control the game according to the needs of the team and also to give the ball to my IF and striker.

2- My passing is mixed, I think he can connect to my left IF and to my striker. Maybe I should ask him to use a more direct pass or play narrow?

3- I have retain possession ticked because I want my team to have the ball and control the pace of the game, and since I play with 3 midfielders I think it's easy for them to control the possession. Maybe I'm a bit confused, but I'm afraid that if I don't retain possession then the other team will have more possession and they can create more chances to score. I expect my team to defend with the ball, but I'm probably doing something wrong. Although I can follow Mourinho's advice and let the other team have the ball expecting them to have more pressure and make mores mistakes that I can profit from, I didn't think of that until now, but that's probably what happens to my team and the reason I concede so many goals late in the game. They pressure my tired team that was asked to retain possession....

4- This one I have mostly because of my poor ratio of goals/shots. I have no idea why my team needs 20 shots to score 1 goal, probably because they shot from stupid places. Maybe this option is better for teams that have more players in the box, formations like 4-4-2. But now that think of it, I want my team to cross and play more direct to my striker, so I think I shouldn't play with work ball into box.

5- I selected play out of defense because I don't want my keeper to throw the ball forward and risk to lose it, I want my team to start playing from the back, but I see what you mean and I should play with a deep lying playmaker. I will swap my ball winning mid. I expect my dlp to connect the game with the other midfielders and the IF's.

6- I don't know really....I just want my IF's to get past the defenders, cut inside to assist my striker, cross or shot. Maybe using this my IF's are losing the ball often to the other team trying to drible their defenders. But if I don't use it will they stop from trying to get past them? Even if they are not good defenders? I'm confused about this one, I'm probably going to play without it and see how it goes.

7- I use low tempo because I want my team to think more about their options, don't rush the pass and risk to lose the ball, because that can provide the opposition a counter... maybe if I played a little faster I could surprise the other team more often but I don't know if I want to take that chance.

8- When the other team counters my team seems surprised and out of shape. They seem a lot slower than the opposition. They usually chip the ball over my CB's or cross from the line. I don't remember the counters to be so deadly like they are this year and I get really frustrated about it, because most of the time they are actually outnumbered. It confuses me how they can cross so easily and still get the header when I have two CB's in the box and they only have 1 striker...


I liked your questions, It get me thinking more about my instructions. I'm gonna change a few things. I would like to know more about player instructions, can anyone recommend me a good and updated guide? I don't use them as much as I could and think they are vital to the game.

Edited to cover all points.
Edited2 - I made a few grammatical mistakes, I'm sorry but English is not my first language.

I dont know how much of a noob thing this is but what i have found works somewhat is making my CDs very passive. Never close down and stand off tackles. You should also never close down or mark fast players if your defenders cant keep up with the pace of who they are expected to close down/mark.
I make my attackers and midfielders (DMC also very passive if playing with one) chase and tackle hard but defenders allways passive to keep shape.

I suspect you already know this but thought id post it anyway.

As to why you have 20+ shots but only a few on target is honestly i think a poor ME thing. What i mean is, your IF will shot from really weird angles and there is nothing you can do about it. I have everything ticked to make my IFs/Wingers look to pass it across the box but it doesnt matter what i do he will still shot from stupid angles. Allot of the time the ball is literally on the byline and he takes the shot. This is a scenario that happens many times throughout a match so thats why the shots ramp up. I dont even look at the shots as a indicator in this years game tbh because of this. I just look at CCCs, possession and just watching how my team plays.
Maybe im wrong about this and there is a way to fix though?

Another thing to keep in mind is that when a player shots and the shot gets blocked the game counts it as a shot. Even if it gets blocked immediately when its struck. Doesnt matter how far away from goal it is or how lame the shot was.

 

[WJ]

****.. :O

My idea was to follow some simple rules, like- have a attack and support player in defense, have a def/supp and attack in mid and then I just have a att IF and another supporting.

That's fair enough.

It is usually recommended to have 1 support duty in your front line. You have 2 out of 3. Not an issue as such, but just be aware of it. If you lack penetration, this may be why.

Also, Attack duties usually bomb forward ahead of play. Playmakers don't really do that. An AP/A comes toward the ball (drops a little deeper then) an surges forward with it. Again, not an issue, but just be aware of it. It may not be what you're looking for.

Do you know why those simple duty 'rules' are there?

1- I was expecting the playmaker to organize my game, control the game according to the needs of the team and also to give the ball to my IF and striker.

Organise and controlling the game, doesn't mean much in practice.

As I said, the AP/A will come toward the ball, pick it up and dribble forward with it. He then needs passing options. IF will definitely be an option for through balls or supply the CF to feet. That part will happen. If you're happy with that vision, then that part is sorted.

2- My passing is mixed, I think he can connect to my left IF and to my striker. Maybe I should ask him to use a more direct pass or play narrow?

Playmakers do have creative freedom and mixed passing by default. The TI screen says mixed, but you have shortened the default range quite a bit with Retain Possession and Shorter Passing. If he's still picking out the intended players, no problem here.

3- I have retain possession ticked because I want my team to have the ball and control the pace of the game, and since I play with 3 midfielders I think it's easy for them to control the possession. Maybe I'm a bit confused, but I'm afraid that if I don't retain possession then the other team will have more possession and they can create more chances to score. I expect my team to defend with the ball, but I'm probably doing something wrong. Although I can follow Mourinho's advice and let the other team have the ball expecting them to have more pressure and make mores mistakes that I can profit from, I didn't think of that until now, but that's probably what happens to my team and the reason I concede so many goals late in the game. They pressure my tired team that was asked to retain possession....

This is a common thing for a long time now. It's going to sound rude, but - Retain Possession isn't a magic button to give you 60% possession. You have to be aware of what you're asking players to do.

You shorten the passing range. You lower the tempo. You prevent passes into space.

You've negated the 3rd effect by using Pass Into Space, but your tempo will still be lowered and passing range shortened. Again, not saying it is an issue, but just so you know what you are instructing.

4- This one I have mostly because of my poor ratio of goals/shots. I have no idea why my team needs 20 shots to score 1 goal, probably because they shot from stupid places. Maybe this option is better for teams that have more players in the box, formations like 4-4-2. But now that think of it, I want my team to cross and play more direct to my striker, so I think I shouldn't play with work ball into box.

So they did shoot from stupid angles/range and so you selected it? That's a fair enough thing to do.

The instruction does 2 things though. It limits shots from range, which is what you wanted. It also asks players to cross a bit less, in line with "working it into the box". The crossing is something many aren't aware of.

5- I selected play out of defense because I don't want my keeper to throw the ball forward and risk to lose it, I want my team to start playing from the back, but I see what you mean and I should play with a deep lying playmaker. I will swap my ball winning mid. I expect my dlp to connect the game with the other midfielders and the IF's.

Not saying you should have a playmaker, but just to think about who will be there to pick up the ball. Say for example your DC has the ball, does he have options? If he only has the DM as an option, you need to make sure that DM is in space, otherwise rein in a fullback/wingback to be closer to play and be a 2nd option.

6- I don't know really....I just want my IF's to get past the defenders, cut inside to assist my striker, cross or shot. Maybe using this my IF's are losing the ball often to the other team trying to drible their defenders. But if I don't use it will they stop from trying to get past them? Even if they are not good defenders? I'm confused about this one, I'm probably going to play without it and see how it goes.

Your IFs and the CF will have running with the ball anyway (check their PI screen) so they won't stop running. Again, not an issue, but watch this in matches. If they lose the ball while dribbling or they dribble when passing would've been a better option, you know this TI may be the reason.

7- I use low tempo because I want my team to think more about their options, don't rush the pass and risk to lose the ball, because that can provide the opposition a counter... maybe if I played a little faster I could surprise the other team more often but I don't know if I want to take that chance.

Low tempo sees a player hold onto the ball for longer, to have more time weigh up options. It's a balancing act though, because that also causes the ball to be worked around/forward slower and gives the opposition more time to get set.

8- When the other team counters my team seems surprised and out of shape. They seem a lot slower than the opposition. They usually chip the ball over my CB's or cross from the line. I don't remember the counters to be so deadly like they are this year and I get really frustrated about it, because most of the time they are actually outnumbered. It confuses me how they can cross so easily and still get the header when I have two CB's in the box and they only have 1 striker...

You have an attacking setup. You're keeping only 3 back. You're working the ball forward slowly, so there's lots of time for the 2 fullbacks to join the attack. When the opposition surges forward, you are probably exposed because of this. That's why it is normally recommended to have one fullback more reserved. A wingback/support will still get quite far forward.

I liked your questions, It get me thinking more about my instructions. I'm gonna change a few things. I would like to know more about player instructions, can anyone recommend me a good and updated guide? I don't use them as much as I could and think they are vital to the game.

Edited to cover all points.
Edited2 - I made a few grammatical mistakes, I'm sorry but English is not my first language.

No problem. English isn't my 1st language either.

For a good guide on TIs and PIs, read Lines and Diamonds. A link to it is in the sticky thread here and the thread itself is stickied in the Tactics Forum on the SI games forum.