Scottish Football's Deep Lying Problems...

[taida]

http://soccerlens.com/scottish-footballs-deep-lying-problems/37277/

It may be a blog from late 2009, but I feel it is relevant. People, what do you think Scottish Footballs true deep lying problems are and how can the SFA fix it?

 

[KA5A8IAN]

Scottish footballs problem is that everyone thinks of themselves, the clubs aren't willing to help one another. League reformation in my opinion is essential, thoguh a few clubs will oppose it, as it cuts their profits, even though it ensures their life as a club.

 

[Mike.]

scotlands long term problems are similar to englands, when it comes to coaching both seem to be stuck in the dark ages.

 

[KA5A8IAN]

And by the way, that last part of the article is bullshit, though I agree entirely with the top half.

 

[Chaz Sexington]

In my opinion there are lots of problems, though the ones that stand out are the split, the season period and the youth system. The split is unfair and ridiculous. Just promote more teams. The season period detracts from ticket sales, as if you're a casual fan you're a lot more likely to turn up in sunshine than a cold, wet, windy November night. The youth system should be done away with and replaced with something that works. It's not any more difficult than having a look at a system that works and adapting it for Scottish conditions, e.g. nicking the German one.

 

[Healey]

Right this is coming from a neutral point of view before anyone jumps down my throats. My dad is English and My mum is Scottish and I am also Scottish. One of the the big issues with Scottish football in terms of the national team is a cultural one. Time and time again I see an attitude of 'Awkt it doesn't matter if we lose, as long as England don't win'.

Now I understand the Auld Enemy and all that but what kind of attitude is that? It seems to be the same throughout scottish football as well. Rangers get knocked out of Europe but thats okay because Celtic did too and vice versa. Or a team loses 20 games in a row but it's all forgiven if they beat the Old Firm in one match. Or even this attitude where finishing 3rd in a league is some sort of success. Where is the ambition? The only success is winning the league.

If England were ranked 144th in the world, would you be happy to be ranked 143rd? Throughout the whole World Cup all i've heard is "Haha look at England playing gash and getting put out in the first round." Well at least they were there! Why aren't we? Surely we have just as much chance as Slovenia? They have what 230 professional footballers after all. I think it's about time we stopped spitting the dummy out about our nasty big brother England and start looking for our own glory. "Scottish and German parties after the first round." Why? What have we got to celebrate? Tell you what, when we get to the quarters i'll be right there with you rubbing our neighbours' faces in it.

Its just as bad when we have our First Minister standing outside the Raddison in Glasgow with a big thank you card for Maradona for cheating our rivals out of the world cup years and years ago. How pathetic is that? Could you see it happening the other way round? No. Because we are a nonentity in world football at the moment. Alex Salmond, by the by, is an absolute disgrace anyway.

I'm sick of always just backing England in competitions. Lets get our heads down and start working on what we can do right, rather than concentrating on the things England does wrong. Get a wee bit of pride about you. We have a support who constantly get behind a diddy team at the moment. Theres no other support in the world who would chear louder for a team who went out and fought and won.

I was at a Germany vs Scotland U21 match a few years back and there was a chant going round of "Stand up if you hate England" from both ends of the crowd. We won but that was still the loudest our section of the crowd had been all game. Louder even than when we scored. I'd rather stand up for Scotland, thanks. Any day of the week.

On a cheerier note, i couldn't agree more with the suggestion of stealing ideas of the German (or who ever's) youth setup. More coaches, better coaches, smaller pitches for younger players. Everyone's crying out for a change. As Delia Smith might say 'Lets be having it then?'

8-|

 

[Mike.]

healey:

On a cheerier note, i couldn't agree more with the suggestion of stealing ideas of the German (or who ever's) youth setup. More coaches, better coaches, smaller pitches for younger players. Everyone's crying out for a change. Lets be having it then?

guess where the the germans got the ideas for the youth setup? from howard wilkinson, who wrote it as charter for quality, when he was technical director for the ENGLISH FA IN 1998! yet for some reason they didnt fully implement it. we had the right idea 12 years ago, and the idiots in suits ignored it

 

[Healey]

healey:



guess where the the germans got the ideas for the youth setup? from howard wilkinson, who wrote it as charter for quality, when he was technical director for the ENGLISH FA IN 1998! yet for some reason they didnt fully implement it. we had the right idea 12 years ago, and the idiots in suits ignored it

Aye i saw that in a post on the England thread. It's pretty depressing really. My only real argument is that yes the Germans look a much better team, but they do have 2 polish, 1 turkish, and 1 brazillian in their starting 11. Still it's time for a change. We've all heard how the Barca youth setup works, Brazillian kids are so skillfull because they dont have big pitches to play on. It clearly works. I'm sick of seeing players with no skill hoofing the ball upfield.

 

[Mike.]

Aye i saw that in a post on the England thread. It's pretty depressing really. My only real argument is that yes the Germans look a much better team, but they do have 2 polish, 1 turkish, and 1 brazillian in their starting 11. Still it's time for a change. We've all heard how the Barca youth setup works, Brazillian kids are so skillfull because they dont have big pitches to play on. It clearly works. I'm sick of seeing players with no skill hoofing the ball upfield.

nothing wrong with the players.

ozil is as german as rooney is english

poldoski moved to germany aged 2 and klose moved at 6

cacau is naturalised german, but only ever wanted to be german and play german football, he isnt a brazilian football reject like so people think, he is nicknamed "helmut" because he is so typically german, depsite being brazilian

 

[Chaz Sexington]

Now I understand the Auld Enemy and all that but what kind of attitude is that? It seems to be the same throughout scottish football as well. Rangers get knocked out of Europe but thats okay because Celtic did too and vice versa. Or a team loses 20 games in a row but it's all forgiven if they beat the Old Firm in one match. Or even this attitude where finishing 3rd in a league is some sort of success. Where is the ambition? The only success is winning the league.

If England were ranked 144th in the world, would you be happy to be ranked 143rd? Throughout the whole World Cup all i've heard is "Haha look at England playing gash and getting put out in the first round." Well at least they were there! Why aren't we? Surely we have just as much chance as Slovenia? They have what 230 professional footballers after all. I think it's about time we stopped spitting the dummy out about our nasty big brother England and start looking for our own glory. "Scottish and German parties after the first round." Why? What have we got to celebrate? Tell you what, when we get to the quarters i'll be right there with you rubbing our neighbours' faces in it.

First of all, the other clubs can't compete money-wise with the Old Firm. Yet. Which is why a 3rd spot is pretty good. Realistic goals are what you want; it'd be the same if the Old Firm thought they could win the Champions League. Sometimes you've got to be happy with what you achieve with limited resources.

As for England and the rivalry, it's a cultural thing, as you know. And we won't be in the World Cup in the forseeable future due to a distinct lack of quality in our team, not because we measure our achievements with the English'.

 

[Healey]

Well is all the talk not of Rangers being reeeaaaaally skint. Nearly in administration is what i keep hearing. You don't need to spend big to win big. But i believe that was what Murray wanted when he came in and splashed the cash. Did it get him anywhere? To a large extent not really. Look at what Aberdeen and Dundee Utd did under Ferguson and (for the life of me can't think of his name). Look at what Blackburn did in the premiership. I don't think any team should ever celebrate third. Third is not winning.

And like i said, do you think the attitude of 'as long as they lose we're okay' is a mentality of a winning side? Of course not. The Old Firm SHOULD aim to be the best in Europe. The teams coming third SHOULD be pushing for second and then first. Scotland SHOULD be trying to be better than England AND better than everyone else.

Youre right there are restraints and measured acheivements. I'm more than aware that Scotland are dire and that there are several reasons for this. I wasn't suggesting for a moment this was the only reason but i definately think it is a contributing factor none the less. I think rivalry is good but not when it stifles progress. Being one step above your rivals should never be good enough. You should want to be 2 steps, and then 3.

I will never accept England's failure as a Scottish success.

 

[Chaz Sexington]

Well is all the talk not of Rangers being reeeaaaaally skint. Nearly in administration is what i keep hearing. You don't need to spend big to win big. But i believe that was what Murray wanted when he came in and splashed the cash. Did it get him anywhere? To a large extent not really. Look at what Aberdeen and Dundee Utd did under Ferguson and (for the life of me can't think of his name). Look at what Blackburn did in the premiership. I don't think any team should ever celebrate third. Third is not winning.

And like i said, do you think the attitude of 'as long as they lose we're okay' is a mentality of a winning side? Of course not. The Old Firm SHOULD aim to be the best in Europe. The teams coming third SHOULD be pushing for second and then first. Scotland SHOULD be trying to be better than England AND better than everyone else.

Youre right there are restraints and measured acheivements. I'm more than aware that Scotland are dire and that there are several reasons for this. I wasn't suggesting for a moment this was the only reason but i definately think it is a contributing factor none the less. I think rivalry is good but not when it stifles progress. Being one step above your rivals should never be good enough. You should want to be 2 steps, and then 3.

I will never accept England's failure as a Scottish success.

As far as the Old Firm goes, it's identical to the situation in England with Chelsea, Man United and Arsenal; you need to go 16 years back to find Blackburn Rovers 1st. Liverpool obviously challenge for it, but they've not won in for decades. Rangers can still afford higher wages and have a much higher stature than say Dundee United. And you're incredibly naïve if you don't think you need to spend to do well, unless you of course happen to get a fantastic manager, like Porto did when they won the Champions League, but that does not happen very often, and when it does, you can bet your *** the manager'll leave for a bigger club in Europe the following season. Your example, Alex Ferguson, went to England.

I don't think the rivalry is as bad as you make it out to be; people were upset that Scotland didn't go through and everyone I know would rather have Scotland and England do well than both be *****.

The root of the problem is the quality of Scottish players and lack of money (several reasons), which hinders the Old Firm and the rest of the SPL from making progress in Europe. The Old Firm have been overachieving in Europe, with Celtic's wins over AC Milan and Manchester United, and Rangers reaching the EURO Cup final.

 

[Div_Muzza]

I think the problems are the league set up and the youth set up. I think Football shoud be taught in school the way it is in the Netherlands and the way Judo is in Japan and Wrestling in America. The split is totally pointless and unfair and I think we need more teams in the league playing the same ones over and over is not good for anybody.

 

[Healey]

I agree about the split. I don't really see the benefit - other than possibly selling a few more tickets. I'd much rather see a couple more teams in the SPL. I think a big problem is things like the OF being given the massive majority of TV rights. Given that they are so pitiful anyway, it leaves other clubs with next to no money. In an ideal world they would be shared evenly or more evenly around all the teams so that they can compete. In reality though this is never going to happen.

 

[Chaz Sexington]

I think the problems are the league set up and the youth set up. I think Football shoud be taught in school the way it is in the Netherlands and the way Judo is in Japan and Wrestling in America. The split is totally pointless and unfair and I think we need more teams in the league playing the same ones over and over is not good for anybody.

I don't think that the schools should neccessarily do it; in Norway we have hundreds of clubs that gives everyone the chance to play if they become members, from the age of 5-6. They then play on tiny pitches, such as 5 aside ones, then when they're 7 they move on to 7 aside ones, and when they turn 13-14 they play on full sized ones. It's once they start playing 11 aside they top the teams; it prevents kids becoming obese and nurtures talent. I think about 80% of Norwegian boys play, and quite a few girls too. The only problem is that once they turn about 13-14, there's not enough support for our talent.

 

[Gregor]

What a **** article.

However, Scottish football has been brought down to earth with a large thud, as only two players from the U19 squad have really made any sort of name for themselves.

Lee Wallace is the best LB in Scotland, and has 3 Scotland caps
Garry Kenneth has been called up, uncapped so far
Steven Fletcher has had a successful season in the EPL and looks likely to be one of our key players in the next qual campaign
Robert Snodgrass - granted hes only at Leeds but hes performing and gained a callup to the national team
Graham Dorrans - arguably the best player in the Championship last season from what I hear, linked with City and Arsenal, capped by Scotland
Mark Reynolds - on the verge of a callup

Charles Grant, Simon Ferry, Jamie Adams have all had major injury problems since

and

Spain themselves have only capped 3 of the players from the winning team, Pique, Juan Mata and Capel

The ‘Scottish Wayne Rooney’ is currently stuck in the Rangers reserve squad, not worthy of a place in the SPL after a spat with Ally McCoist. John Fleck is a raw talent with an attitude problem, but he is still only 18. However, the Scottish youth system has let him and other promising stars down.

I dont see why an 18year old not being a regular is a let down, its not his/Rangers fault that the media tipped his as the Scottish Wayne Rooney

There is no investment in youth football.

That I know of Celtic have invested heavily in Lennonxtown, Rangers in Murraypark, Hearts in Heriot Watt and Falkirk in Stirling Uni. In a league with little money that seems a decent commitment to me

Proof of this is Steven Naismith who occasionally dons a Rangers shirt. He was prolific for Kilmarnock, and Rangers most likely signed him to stop Celtic getting their mitts on him. He was arguably the best player on the pitch when Scotland bravely crashed out of the World Cup to Holland.

emm beacuse hes been injured most of the time perhaps?

Hibs looked like they had finally put together a young talented Scottish team. Their team included Scott Brown, Kevin Thompson, Steven Whittaker, Gary Caldwell, Steven Fletcher and Gary O’Connor. Since they all left Hibs they have all taken a bit of a nose-dive.

Brown - was Celtic captain, inconsistent but a regular for Scotland and Celtic
Thomson - for a start his names Thomson not Thompson, regular for Rangers, one of their best players, should become a Scotland regular in next qual campaign barring more injuries
Whittaker - regular for Rangers, scored an unreal amount of goals from RB last season, would have more caps if it wasnt for Hutton.
Caldwell - playing in the EPL and Scotland regular, granted hes a bombscare, but he was at Hibs
Fletcher - regular in the EPL, performed well in his first season, looking to be a regular for Scotland now
O'Conner - suffered a lot from injuries, would possibly say his career has gone down, but not nose dived

Fletcher and O’Connor have ended up in the English Premier League, along with fellow Scots James McFadden, Darren Fletcher and Craig Gordon. As it is a much higher standard of league it pretty much guarantees them a spot in the Scotland team, but not a starting place for their club side.

All regulars bar O'Conner who started the season in the starting XI but then got injured.

 

[calum1994]

IMO the clubs outside the old firm don't have the financial backing that Rangers and Celtic do, therefore can't bring in quality players. If they do bring in good players they usually have to be sold after a few seasons so that they don't run into debt, these players are sold at very low prices compared to what they should be sold for but these clubs are exploited because they need the money. I'm not sure what the prize money is for the SPL but it isn't as high as it should be because clubs that are fighting relegation need the money from playing the old firm just to keep going.

 

[RossM96]

Right this is coming from a neutral point of view before anyone jumps down my throats. My dad is English and My mum is Scottish and I am also Scottish. One of the the big issues with Scottish football in terms of the national team is a cultural one. Time and time again I see an attitude of 'Awkt it doesn't matter if we lose, as long as England don't win'.

Now I understand the Auld Enemy and all that but what kind of attitude is that? It seems to be the same throughout scottish football as well. Rangers get knocked out of Europe but thats okay because Celtic did too and vice versa. Or a team loses 20 games in a row but it's all forgiven if they beat the Old Firm in one match. Or even this attitude where finishing 3rd in a league is some sort of success. Where is the ambition? The only success is winning the league.

If England were ranked 144th in the world, would you be happy to be ranked 143rd? Throughout the whole World Cup all i've heard is "Haha look at England playing gash and getting put out in the first round." Well at least they were there! Why aren't we? Surely we have just as much chance as Slovenia? They have what 230 professional footballers after all. I think it's about time we stopped spitting the dummy out about our nasty big brother England and start looking for our own glory. "Scottish and German parties after the first round." Why? What have we got to celebrate? Tell you what, when we get to the quarters i'll be right there with you rubbing our neighbours' faces in it.

Its just as bad when we have our First Minister standing outside the Raddison in Glasgow with a big thank you card for Maradona for cheating our rivals out of the world cup years and years ago. How pathetic is that? Could you see it happening the other way round? No. Because we are a nonentity in world football at the moment. Alex Salmond, by the by, is an absolute disgrace anyway.

I'm sick of always just backing England in competitions. Lets get our heads down and start working on what we can do right, rather than concentrating on the things England does wrong. Get a wee bit of pride about you. We have a support who constantly get behind a diddy team at the moment. Theres no other support in the world who would chear louder for a team who went out and fought and won.

I was at a Germany vs Scotland U21 match a few years back and there was a chant going round of "Stand up if you hate England" from both ends of the crowd. We won but that was still the loudest our section of the crowd had been all game. Louder even than when we scored. I'd rather stand up for Scotland, thanks. Any day of the week.

On a cheerier note, i couldn't agree more with the suggestion of stealing ideas of the German (or who ever's) youth setup. More coaches, better coaches, smaller pitches for younger players. Everyone's crying out for a change. As Delia Smith might say 'Lets be having it then?'

8-|

But the point of ' at leastt we did better than the other' works both ways. When and if scottish football improves lets say rangers go to the semi-finals of the europa leugue then celtic would strive to improve and do better than that. At the moment its a bad thing, but if scottish football gets better, it will be a good thing.

 

[calum1994]

I dont see why an 18year old not being a regular is a let down, its not his/Rangers fault that the media tipped his as the Scottish Wayne Rooney

Rangers and Celtic waste so much talent by not playing theier younger players, look at Ross Macormack(sp) He didn't get a chance at Rangers and ended up playing for Motherwell but has proved himself and is now playing in the Championship, if you look at Livingston they have had Graham Dorrans and Robert Snodgrass who because they were given a chance in the first team are now regular starters for their clubs and Dorrans is being linked with some of the top clubs and will be playing in the premiership next year

 

[Gaffer]

no quality player would go to anyone other than old firm