SmoothJitsu

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In another thread i was told to ask for advice before i totally gave up on the game and i'm going to do just that. This tactic i'm posting is a tactic i used to place third with France on the World Cup elimininating the Likes of Germany and Argentina.

View attachment 361567

Team instructions change with different opponents, i might push higher up against a weaker opponent and retain possesion if i'm winning.
Now i need help to improve this tactic so i can have some success with Newcastle.

Thanks guys

Edit: The striker role changed depending on who was playing Giroud (scores a ton of goals) or Benzema

Edit no.2: If i'm playing a stronger side away i'm not using this tactic at all.. but on that counter tactic i'm still working on.. I'm looking at replicating Diego Simeone's tactic
 
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Tactic One:- Contain / Very Fluid
Retain Possession; Shorter Passing; Pass Into Space; Work Ball Into Box; Play out of Defence; Hit Early Cross; Float Crosses; Run At Defence; Exploit the Flanks; Play Narrower; Push Higher Up; Roam from Positions; Hassle Opponents; Stay On Feet; Use Tighter Marking; Much Lower Tempo; Be More Expressive

GK - Sweeper Keeper Defend
Tim Krul (needs training to play role or cash in)

DR - Complete Wing Back Attack
Mathieu Debuchy

DL - Complete Wing Back Attack
Davide Santon

DCR - Central Defender Defend
Mapou Yanga-Mbiwa

DCL - Central Defender Cover
Fabricio Coloccini

DML - Regista Support
Vurnon Anita

MCR - Central Midfielder Attack
Moussa Sissoko

AMR - Advanced Playmaker Attack
Hatem Ben Arfa

AML - Advanced Playmaker Attack
Sammy Ameobi (need replacing)

AMLC - Shadow Striker Attack
Luuk de Jong

FCR - False Nine Support
Yoan Gouffran (need replacing)

------------------------------

Tactic Two:- Standard / Fluid
Shorter Passing; Pass Into Space; Drill Crosses; Run At Defence; Look for overlap; Play Narrower; Drop Deeper; Stick to Positions; Hassle Opponents; Stay On Feet; Use Tighter Marking; Much Higher Tempo; Be More Disciplined

GK - Goalkeeper Defend
Tim Krul

DR - Complete Wing Back Attack
Mathieu Debuchy

DL - Complete Wing Back Attack
Davide Santon

DCR - Central Defender Defend
Mapou Yanga-Mbiwa

DCL - Central Defender Cover
Fabricio Coloccini

DML - Ball Winning Midfielder Defend
Cheick Tiote

MCR - Box to Box Midfielder
Moussa Sissoko

AMR - Inside Forward Attack
Hatem Ben Arfa

AML - Advanced Playmaker Attack
Sammy Ameobi (need replacing)

FCL - Deep Lying Forward Support
Papiss Cisse (needs training or cash in)

FCR - Advanced Forward Attack
Loic Remy / Papiss Cisse (if you decide to keep him)


------------------------------

I would try these for Newcastle to be honest... It's near impossible to replicate Diego Simeone's formation in FM but these are both similar styles/tactics to his system in my opinion... don't be fooled Tactic One is more attacking (absolutely destroy teams with this setup, good for all standards just match the player to the role) and Tactic Two is more of a controlled style and is very basic and therefore fits a majority of teams and a good starter tactic.
 
Tactic One:- Contain / Very Fluid
Retain Possession; Shorter Passing; Pass Into Space; Work Ball Into Box; Play out of Defence; Hit Early Cross; Float Crosses; Run At Defence; Exploit the Flanks; Play Narrower; Push Higher Up; Roam from Positions; Hassle Opponents; Stay On Feet; Use Tighter Marking; Much Lower Tempo; Be More Expressive

GK - Sweeper Keeper Defend
Tim Krul (needs training to play role or cash in)

DR - Complete Wing Back Attack
Mathieu Debuchy

DL - Complete Wing Back Attack
Davide Santon

DCR - Central Defender Defend
Mapou Yanga-Mbiwa

DCL - Central Defender Cover
Fabricio Coloccini

DML - Regista Support
Vurnon Anita

MCR - Central Midfielder Attack
Moussa Sissoko

AMR - Advanced Playmaker Attack
Hatem Ben Arfa

AML - Advanced Playmaker Attack
Sammy Ameobi (need replacing)

AMLC - Shadow Striker Attack
Luuk de Jong

FCR - False Nine Support
Yoan Gouffran (need replacing)

------------------------------

Tactic Two:- Standard / Fluid
Shorter Passing; Pass Into Space; Drill Crosses; Run At Defence; Look for overlap; Play Narrower; Drop Deeper; Stick to Positions; Hassle Opponents; Stay On Feet; Use Tighter Marking; Much Higher Tempo; Be More Disciplined

GK - Goalkeeper Defend
Tim Krul

DR - Complete Wing Back Attack
Mathieu Debuchy

DL - Complete Wing Back Attack
Davide Santon

DCR - Central Defender Defend
Mapou Yanga-Mbiwa

DCL - Central Defender Cover
Fabricio Coloccini

DML - Ball Winning Midfielder Defend
Cheick Tiote

MCR - Box to Box Midfielder
Moussa Sissoko

AMR - Inside Forward Attack
Hatem Ben Arfa

AML - Advanced Playmaker Attack
Sammy Ameobi (need replacing)

FCL - Deep Lying Forward Support
Papiss Cisse (needs training or cash in)

FCR - Advanced Forward Attack
Loic Remy / Papiss Cisse (if you decide to keep him)


------------------------------

I would try these for Newcastle to be honest... It's near impossible to replicate Diego Simeone's formation in FM but these are both similar styles/tactics to his system in my opinion... don't be fooled Tactic One is more attacking (absolutely destroy teams with this setup, good for all standards just match the player to the role) and Tactic Two is more of a controlled style and is very basic and therefore fits a majority of teams and a good starter tactic.


I bought Milan Badelj, Lucas Romero and Everton Ribeiro and Sold Papiss. Now i'm still trying to make my tactics work against weaker opposition, but i will definitely try your tactics when i play a stronger opponent, because i've still to figure out a decent counter tactic.
 
You might want to lower tempo, as you are using short passing
 
I would change ap to support then the full back behind him to attack as u have look for overlap should get the fb further up the winger I would leave other side as is don't want fb in way of the winger. Mayb one of the bbm with get further forward ticked just to get more bodies in the box
 
I would change ap to support then the full back behind him to attack as u have look for overlap should get the fb further up the winger I would leave other side as is don't want fb in way of the winger. Mayb one of the bbm with get further forward ticked just to get more bodies in the box

Sounds good.. will give it a try.. thanks
 
It's a little difficult to give you specific advice, but I'm interested in why you've chosen the roles you have?

Who will score your goals and who will be the most likely to get the assists for those goals?

I'm also curious as to why you've chosen "Look for Overlap"?

Edit: Are you in the first season? Where are you predicted to finish, just so that I get an idea of how strong your team is?

Edit 2: Any Player Instructions?

You're not the first one to tell me that.. Does that make such a big difference?

It can make a difference. Not sure how to measure how big of a difference though. Higher tempo means each player spends less time on the ball. That means their first touch needs to be good. They need technique and passing ability, not to mention creativity, composure, decisions and possibly anticipation too. The reason? Less time on the ball, means they need to make good decisions and make them quickly. Creativity helps them see more options, because if they can't, they're going to hoof the ball, take a long shot or give the opponent an easy interception.

Playing at a high tempo is great, but you need good players to pull it off. There's are reason why so few teams play this way IRL.
 
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Observations:

- The TM/A is a very static role and he was un-involved for most of the match. He was only useful when the AML tried to aim for him with crosses. A few balls were lumped forward to him, being a target man, but he's isolated and up against 2x DC and sometimes even a DM too. Not a good role for the lone striker in a 4-1-2-2-1.

- The 2x BBM worked a little better than I thought it would. They usually took turns to make runs, although the LCM made most of the runs, presumably because of the space available since the AML stays wide.

- It's always a good idea to have 1 midfielder on a defend duty to screen the defence, especially against counter-attacks. The DLP/S sometimes doesn't do a good job here. When the other team is in possession in centre midfield in their own half, he sometimes joins the BBMs to win the ball back. That leaves a massive gap behind the midfield and in front of the defence. That is heaven for any AMC. One ball over the top and it's 2 v 2.

- The fullbacks aren't getting forward. PPMs might push Debuchy (if you have him) forward a little, but for the most part they're not involved in the build up too much.

- The AML/AMR wide roles do a fairly good job, but you're utterly reliant on them producing something out of nothing, because general movement isn't good enough.

- In general, you have 3 front players attacking the D-Line of 4 players (possibly 5 if you count a DM) and this is worsened by using fluid, which splits mentality 5/5.

What changes I would make, keeping your formation and roles in mind:

I don't know the squad you have currently, so I'll stick to general advice. You don't have to stick to the roles I suggest, because I don't know your players, but try to keep to the duties. That's more important.

- Give your DR an attacking duty, if you have a capable player. Giving the AMR a support duty (as suggested) would work well as he'd sit narrower and the DR will overlap frequently. You can tinker with giving the AMR "Roam from Position" as a possibility too.

- Change your midfield. It's good in a 3-man midfield like yours to have a mix of duties. 1x Defend, 1x Support and 1x Attack will give a lots of movement. (DM) DM/D -- (LCM) CM/A -- (RCM) DLP/S as an example.

- The striker needs a better role. Giving him a support duty, like a DLF/S will pull the opposition defence out of position and involve him more in general play. The CM/A, W/A, AP/S or even the DLF/S himself can go and exploit that space. Especially against opposition employing a DM (but in general too) the striker can benefit from being asked to "move into channels".

- I'd remove some team instructions too. Play wider, you don't really need, IMO. Ask the AML, to stay wider as a PI. Otherwise, leave that space wide for the AML and DR to exploit. Shorter passing is unnecessary, IMO. Your passing will already be short in midfield and up front because of Control mentality. You're playing out of defence, so passes are shorter at the back too.

- Personal opinion this, but I would remove Exploit Flanks too and only add it if necessary in a match where you're outnumbering them out wide or if they have "weak" players on the flanks.

- Don't be afraid to use Player Instructions. Don't overdo it, but one or two instructions can make a difference too.
 
It's a little difficult to give you specific advice, but I'm interested in why you've chosen the roles you have?

Who will score your goals and who will be the most likely to get the assists for those goals?

I'm also curious as to why you've chosen "Look for Overlap"?

Edit: Are you in the first season? Where are you predicted to finish, just so that I get an idea of how strong your team is?

Edit 2: Any Player Instructions?


I've chosen these roles because i'm trying to replicate France's WC tactics and i feel like those were the roles assigned to the players.. Obviously Benzema was not a Target Man, but at Newcastle that's pretty much all i have.

Yes this is my first Season, i'm predicted to get 8th, and only 2 player instructions.. Badelj (DLP) to try Long Balls and Sissoko(BBM) to get further forward
 
It can make a difference. Not sure how to measure how big of a difference though. Higher tempo means each player spends less time on the ball. That means their first touch needs to be good. They need technique and passing ability, not to mention creativity, composure, decisions and possibly anticipation too. The reason? Less time on the ball, means they need to make good decisions and make them quickly. Creativity helps them see more options, because if they can't, they're going to hoof the ball, take a long shot or give the opponent an easy interception.

Playing at a high tempo is great, but you need good players to pull it off. There's are reason why so few teams play this way IRL.


That actually makes a ton of sense haha, but yeah only Badelj has the requirements to play in a high Tempo passing game.. i'll take it off right away
 
That actually makes a ton of sense haha, but yeah only Badelj has the requirements to play in a high Tempo passing game.. i'll take it off right away
I tried a test game with Newcastle and I struggled in a friendly (where the AI doesn't even give 100%!) against Red Bull Salzburg.

I fared a lot better with my suggested changes. The higher tempo can work. I kept it on for the games, but I removed shorter passing. You may do even better with the default tempo, so see how it goes.
 
I tried a test game with Newcastle and I struggled in a friendly (where the AI doesn't even give 100%!) against Red Bull Salzburg.

I fared a lot better with my suggested changes. The higher tempo can work. I kept it on for the games, but I removed shorter passing. You may do even better with the default tempo, so see how it goes.

I'll report after playing a couple of games.. Thanks man.

Edit. A question though, when should i use a BPD?? More in a counter attacking game or would it be useful in a tactic like this?
 
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I'll report after playing a couple of games.. Thanks man.

Edit. A question though, when should i use a BPD?? More in a counter attacking game or would it be useful in a tactic like this?
I'm a little undecided on this, actually. Normally, I'd say he's better in a possession orientated tactic. The other CD roles keep it simple and basically look to get rid of the ball, which is useful when counter attacking.

On the other hand, a BPD could play that 50-yard through ball to your winger :D
 
I tried a test game with Newcastle and I struggled in a friendly (where the AI doesn't even give 100%!) against Red Bull Salzburg.

I fared a lot better with my suggested changes. The higher tempo can work. I kept it on for the games, but I removed shorter passing. You may do even better with the default tempo, so see how it goes.

LOL are you like somekind of FM wizard? 9 minutes into my first game and i'm up 2-0 (granted it's Home agaisnt Sunderland) but still..

I've put the DLP on defend, and Sissoko as the CM(a), Romero remains as a BBM
 
LOL are you like somekind of FM wizard? 9 minutes into my first game and i'm up 2-0 (granted it's Home agaisnt Sunderland) but still..

I've put the DLP on defend, and Sissoko as the CM(a), Romero remains as a BBM

Lol. Glad it's working. You'd have to watch the BBM. Not sure if he will get forward too much, because that role can make player attempt late runs into the box. You may get away with it against teams who don't pose too much of a counter attacking threat, but if it's a problem, change to a BWM or CM rather.
 
Lol. Glad it's working. You'd have to watch the BBM. Not sure if he will get forward too much, because that role can make player attempt late runs into the box. You may get away with it against teams who don't pose too much of a counter attacking threat, but if it's a problem, change to a BWM or CM rather.

So i'm posting the stats from the 3 games i played. all the same tactic which i will also post
View attachment 361224View attachment 361223View attachment 361222View attachment 361221

In the Everton Game i was really overrun, which i think it has something to do with what ou said about the BBM, my DLP was too alone to deal with the Everton players, and i was caught with a lot of through balls to their forwards..
Also in the Man City game after i scored the goal i went with a much deeper defensive line
 
Did you use Retain Possession in all 3 games? What formations did the 3 teams use against you?
 
Did you use Retain Possession in all 3 games? What formations did the 3 teams use against you?
Yeah i did retain Posession.. right now i'm just testing the tactic out.
Sunderland used the same 4-3-3 as i did
Everton used a 4-2-3-1
Man.City also used a 4-2-3-1
 
Be careful of using Retain Possession. Sunderland would have sat back, so Retain Possession may have helped keep the ball and break them down. Everton {A} and Man City {H} you may have done better without the instruction.

Only you can see what happened in that match, but they'd be aggressive without the ball and they're matching your triangle in midfield. You're not going to have space and time to retain possession. Also, they are likely going to commit a fair few forward and without a DM, you might get some good chances by getting the ball forward instead of focusing on keeping possession.

Maybe something to think about in the bigger games.
 
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