Tactics creating guide by Igneos Eructid - short and sweet

[Igneos79]

I'll give you the first 2. We mostly agree there. Risk and Creative Freedom.

The Duties definition isn't correct though. They're pretty much what I said earlier:


Attack duties are generally ahead of the ball, Support duties keep up with play and Defend duties are behind play.

That is true for a highly structured, standard approach. When you change options, like team mentality to attack, more men will commit forward. If you change fluidity just a notch, for example, your sidebacks will not just be asked to "stay behind ball", they will also be required to do transitions, and should be given a support duty.

 

[THFC123]

Can you post screenshots of three various tactics please? example attack,counter,def for lets say Spurs or Hull?

 

[WJ]

That is true for a highly structured, standard approach. When you change options, like team mentality to attack, more men will commit forward. If you change fluidity just a notch, for example, your sidebacks will not just be asked to "stay behind ball", they will also be required to do transitions, and should be given a support duty.

There is no "should" be given a support duty and it's true for all approaches. It's the very definition of duties and has nothing to do with anything else.

With an Attack duty, the fullbacks (for example) will always have RFD often, so they'll always be looking to burst forward. With an Attacking mentality, they'll bomb forward whenever you get possession. With the more defensive mentalities, they'll still make runs forward and get far up the pitch, but (as you hinted at earlier) they'll delay the runs to a time when it's less risky. So their instructions are the same for an Attack duty regardless, but the risk/reward factor (mentality) plays a part in how they behave.

 

[Igneos79]

There is no "should" be given a support duty and it's true for all approaches. It's the very definition of duties and has nothing to do with anything else.

With an Attack duty, the fullbacks (for example) will always have RFD often, so they'll always be looking to burst forward. With an Attacking mentality, they'll bomb forward whenever you get possession. With the more defensive mentalities, they'll still make runs forward and get far up the pitch, but (as you hinted at earlier) they'll delay the runs to a time when it's less risky. So their instructions are the same for an Attack duty regardless, but the risk/reward factor (mentality) plays a part in how they behave.

You keep missing the point. With less agressive mentality, more men will stay behind ball....that means striker will be also asked to stay behind ball if opting for contain team mentality, regardless of his duty. If opting for more agressive mentality, more men will get ahead of ball, also regardless of their duty. Am I speaking Turkish here?

 

[WJ]

You keep missing the point. With less agressive mentality, more men will stay behind ball....that means striker will be also asked to stay behind ball if opting for contain team mentality, regardless of his duty. If opting for more agressive mentality, more men will get ahead of ball, also regardless of their duty. Am I speaking Turkish here?

No, not Turkish, just wrong. Strikers on attack duty still get ahead of the ball. In case I wasn't clear, I'm talking about "In possession". Obviously everyone will defend deeper with more defensive strategies.

 

[Igneos79]

No, not Turkish, just wrong. Strikers on attack duty still get ahead of the ball. In case I wasn't clear, I'm talking about "In possession". Obviously everyone will defend deeper with more defensive strategies.

I am not wrong. In case of contain mentality, and very fluid team shape, your striker should be given a defend duty.

 

[WJ]

I am not wrong. In case of contain mentality, and very fluid team shape, your striker should be given a defend duty.

He shouldn't be given anything specifically different. Fluidity has nothing to do with this, so why are you bringing it up? In the case of contain mentality, you give the striker a duty that fits him (attributes) and the system. If that means a Support duty, then so be it. If it's Attack duty, then that's fine. Don't place unnecessary limits on tactics.

I had a dominant Chelsea team in FM14 and we walked the league every season using Defend or Contain mentalities. The system was quite "normal" and it followed the same basic principals of tactics. Movement between lines and dragging defenders out of position.

 

[Igneos79]

He shouldn't be given anything specifically different. Fluidity has nothing to do with this, so why are you bringing it up? In the case of contain mentality, you give the striker a duty that fits him (attributes) and the system. If that means a Support duty, then so be it. If it's Attack duty, then that's fine. Don't place unnecessary limits on tactics.

I had a dominant Chelsea team in FM14 and we walked the league every season using Defend or Contain mentalities. The system was quite "normal" and it followed the same basic principals of tactics. Movement between lines and dragging defenders out of position.

To say specifically, striker in a very fluid system should roam. That means either a treq, a defensive forward on defend, or a complete forward. I am mentioning very fluid, because with it, you ask all 11 men to do the same. If it's contain, they should all contain, including the striker. The game only allows for one duty, and it's a bad system, but in a very fluid, contain system, you are also asking the striker to defend, primarily defend.

 

[WJ]

To say specifically, striker in a very fluid system should roam. That means either a treq, a defensive forward on defend, or a complete forward. I am mentioning very fluid, because with it, you ask all 11 men to do the same. If it's contain, they should all contain, including the striker. The game only allows for one duty, and it's a bad system, but in a very fluid, contain system, you are also asking the striker to defend, primarily defend.

Sorry, then you don't understand fluidity at all. Fluidity gives your players more freedom to express themselves. It doesn't matter what duty you give them, so there's no need to restrict yourself to made-up limits.

Yes, you're asking everyone to contribute equally in a very fluid system, but that has absolutely nothing to do with duties. You still need duties to create movement and gaps in the opponent's defence. So, even in a Contain/Defend, Very Fluid system, you still need Attacking and Support duties.

 

[Igneos79]

Sorry, then you don't understand fluidity at all. Fluidity gives your players more freedom to express themselves. It doesn't matter what duty you give them, so there's no need to restrict yourself to made-up limits.

Yes, you're asking everyone to contribute equally in a very fluid system, but that has absolutely nothing to do with duties. You still need duties to create movement and gaps in the opponent's defence. So, even in a Contain/Defend, Very Fluid system, you still need Attacking and Support duties.

I see. Then I was wrong. Please accept my appologies.

 

[WJ]

I see. Then I was wrong. Please accept my appologies.

No worries. At least we generated interesting discussion, rather than the usual "wahtz da bestest takticz 2 use"?

 

[GodCubed]

Jesus christ an actual civil discussion. Someone hold me.

 

[sieni]

Gave this thread a read. Was not disappointed. Faith in humanity restored!
Also a lot to learn for players interested in these things. Well done guys.

 

[miguelalves]

I see. Then I was wrong. Please accept my appologies.

You are both right, but I think your argument is more related to player roles instead of duties. Duties used to influence the old FM13's RFD and RWB and these are not affected by fluidity, no matter the tactic is very rigid, balanced or very fluid. But you think of roles, then yes specialist roles are irrelevant in a very fluid because players are asked to participate in all phases of the game.

Now, picking up the 1st page, can you complete the information writing about Tempo ? thanks

 

[Igneos79]

You are both right, but I think your argument is more related to player roles instead of duties. Duties used to influence the old FM13's RFD and RWB and these are not affected by fluidity, no matter the tactic is very rigid, balanced or very fluid. But you think of roles, then yes specialist roles are irrelevant in a very fluid because players are asked to participate in all phases of the game.

Now, picking up the 1st page, can you complete the information writing about Tempo ? thanks

added

 

[miguelalves]

Thanks.
Now, it would be interesting to discuss some points. I never read anyone elaborate about a possible TI hierarchy, but when we think about combining a few instructions we might start wonder how they complement. Example: Play wider focus passes to the wider players, but combined with Exploit the Middle (focus passes to the inner players) which TI over rules the other ???

P.S. I thought Tempo would only influence how quickly the ball is moved around and NOT how players behave without the ball.

 

[WJ]

Play wider/narrower just messes with the wide-play settings of the wide players and your passing focus. Exploit the middle/wings changes passing focus.

So play wider will set your wide players to hug the touchline or set inside forwards from cutting in to "nornal". It will also set your passing focus to the wings/flanks.

By adding exploit the middle, the wide players will still be affected by the wide play instructions, but passing focus is now through the middle.

So it would be great to use if you outnumber them in the middle, say 451 vs 442. It'll stretch their wide players, ensuring that you have a 3 vs 2 advantage in the middle.

 

[WJ]

Tempo only affects how long they hold onto the ball. So with a lower tempo they have more time to make decisions and high tempo will need quick feet and minds.

 

[miguelalves]

Play wider/narrower just messes with the wide-play settings of the wide players and your passing focus. Exploit the middle/wings changes passing focus.

So play wider will set your wide players to hug the touchline or set inside forwards from cutting in to "nornal". It will also set your passing focus to the wings/flanks.

By adding exploit the middle, the wide players will still be affected by the wide play instructions, but passing focus is now through the middle.

So it would be great to use if you outnumber them in the middle, say 451 vs 442. It'll stretch their wide players, ensuring that you have a 3 vs 2 advantage in the middle.

Considering that, it's accurate to say Exploit the Middle over rules Play Wider as for the passing focus, which also means some sort of TI hierarchy. It would be nice to have a visual of all these hierarchy effects in FM and also have the online guide explaining all of these.

 

[WJ]

Yes, I've never really thought about it, but it does mean that some TIs overrule others. It's very rare, I'm sure.