The Chelsea Thread

[Alcaraz]

Inter and RM were not poisoned chalices, he has never been a long term manager.

Moratti has seen off quite a few managers and tell me one manager who has managed to stay long-term at RM these past few years?

Definition of Long-Term: 5 years or more

Also I don't get how you can say Mourinho is not a long-term manager when he has effectively never been at a club for more than 2-3 seasons for a variety of reasons. He was sacked from Chelsea otherwise he would still have stayed. He left Inter cos he hated Italy. He left Porto to join a better club in Chelsea. Similarily he left Leira to joing a better club in Porto

 

[Aannddyy]

Inter and RM were not poisoned chalices, he has never been a long term manager.

And who by your definition is a "long term manager"?

 

[Alcaraz]

What I do not get Mike. is how you can say Mourinho is not a long-term manager when you have never seen him in such a role.

So did you think AVB or Unai Emery are long-term managers? What qualities do they possess that Mourinho does not?

 

[Average Joe]

What I do not get Mike. is how you can say Mourinho is not a long-term manager when you have never seen him in such a role.

So did you think AVB or Unai Emery are long-term managers? What qualities do they possess that Mourinho does not?

Well he could have stayed at Porto, top club, doing well, winning things etc but he chose to move on

 

[Mike.]

And who by your definition is a "long term manager"?

One who seeks to implement changes, especially in the lower echelons of the club, usually the type of changes that will out last his early tenure, such as trying to galvanise the youth sides. Klopp, Benitez, SAF, Wenger would be your more notable examples.

 

[Aannddyy]

One who seeks to implement changes, especially in the lower echelons of the club, usually the type of changes that will out last his early tenure, such as trying to galvanise the youth sides. Klopp, Benitez, SAF, Wenger would be your more notable examples.

I was talking in relation to the Chelsea job, sorry.

So you think Benitez would be good for Chelsea?

 

[Mike.]

What I do not get Mike. is how you can say Mourinho is not a long-term manager when you have never seen him in such a role.

So did you think AVB or Unai Emery are long-term managers? What qualities do they possess that Mourinho does not?

He has never been one, he maybe suddenly turn round and be one, but he has never shown any evidence in the past.

AVB was sacked before he even got started.

Emery has actually been pretty active with Valencia's youth and younger players, their financial status dictates that they have to be ready to pluck players from there to step up

 

[Mike.]

I was talking in relation to the Chelsea job, sorry.

So you think Benitez would be good for Chelsea?

Honestly yes, he was sacked, and yet your youth set up benefitted from the changes he was making. As him well as being a top coach.

 

[CJACKO11]

Honestly yes, he was sacked, and yet your youth set up benefitted from the changes he was making. As him well as being a top coach.

It will never happen, he likes to have full control of everything and that wont be aloud at Chelsea. Plus Chelsea fans hate him with a passion.

 

[BlueHeart26]

I wouldnt be surprised if we appointed Capello. Roman will find it difficult to find another world class manager. no doubt. at the end of the day, I wouldnt mind Benitez. I hate(d) him a lot, but if he brings trophies and unleashes Torres, then no problem.

 

[Alcaraz]

He has never been one, he maybe suddenly turn round and be one, but he has never shown any evidence in the past.

AVB was sacked before he even got started.

Emery has actually been pretty active with Valencia's youth and younger players, their financial status dictates that they have to be ready to pluck players from there to step up

Exactly. Thats why you cannot say that Mourinho is not a long-term manager. Yes he has not shown any evidence in the past that he is one but neither has he shown evidence that he cannot be a long-term manager if he is given the task

And I agree with you that Emery has done great work with the Valencia youth set-up. Emergence of players like Juan Bernat suggests so. I would welcome his appointment as long as he is given a free rein to shape the squad on how he see's fit over the summer.

 

[Alcaraz]

Juan Mata chimed in on AVB's sacking and there were a few interesting quotes from him:

He had good ideas and he wanted to change things in the club but, in the end, it is the results that matter.

He came with the idea of how he played at Porto - the pressure high up the pitch, robbing the ball and always being very close to the opponents' goal with a very offensive football.

Perhaps Chelsea were used to a different style, perhaps a more physical one with a lot of chances in a small space of time, not such a fluid style but still a very attacking one.

It was maybe imposing a style when the team were not used it.


I think this more or less adds justification to my reasons for AVB's sacking. Overall, results were not going his way and they did not look like improving anytime soon.

Secondly, the tactics he employed at Chelsea were not suitable for us at all. He just did not have the required personell and ultimately it cost us throughout this season.

Still its not like I support the sacking of AVB. I just want to put it out there that his sacking was not completely unjust despite what many people will have you believe. There were mistakes both on his part as well as the club's part throughout this season and there were things both of them could have done better.

But what I cannot figure out is why he did not employ tactics that the current squad were more used to. I am pretty sure a tactician of his stature would have seen right away that the tactics he was employing did not bring the best out of many players. He should have reverted to tactics that suited us more at least for this season.

 

[Mike.]

Exactly. Thats why you cannot say that Mourinho is not a long-term manager. Yes he has not shown any evidence in the past that he is one but neither has he shown evidence that he cannot be a long-term manager if he is given the task

And I agree with you that Emery has done great work with the Valencia youth set-up. Emergence of players like Juan Bernat suggests so. I would welcome his appointment as long as he is given a free rein to shape the squad on how he see's fit over the summer.

No its exactly why i can say he isnt one. Right now, has he shown any evidence of being one? Not in the slightest. Based on the evidence shown he isnt right now. Thats pretty obvious. Not saying he cant change, but again there is nothing for anyone to say that he is likely too.

Being a long term manager isnt a task, its usually something that is part of a set up, there was nothing to stop him looking at youth at chelsea, reinvigorating the youth while creating that side, ditto real madrid/inter.

So as i said right how he isnt. Cant he change? maybe, but expecting him to come in and suddenly change when he has shown no evidence is silly, you should be looking for a manager with a track record in it, rather than suddenly hoping Jose can do it, just because you want him back

 

[Alcaraz]

No its exactly why i can say he isnt one. Right now, has he shown any evidence of being one? Not in the slightest. Based on the evidence shown he isnt right now. Thats pretty obvious. Not saying he cant change, but again there is nothing for anyone to say that he is likely too.

Being a long term manager isnt a task, its usually something that is part of a set up, there was nothing to stop him looking at youth at chelsea, reinvigorating the youth while creating that side, ditto real madrid/inter.

So as i said right how he isnt. Cant he change? maybe, but expecting him to come in and suddenly change when he has shown no evidence is silly, you should be looking for a manager with a track record in it, rather than suddenly hoping Jose can do it, just because you want him back

He has not shown any evidence he is a long-term manager because he has never been given the chance to.

At Chelsea when he came in, Roman wanted to see returns for the amount of money he was putting into Chelsea in the form of trophies. The emphasis was more on the first-team during Mourinho's reign and yes he could have focused on the youth but Mourinho's main task was not to stabilize the club when he came in but bring in the Title.

At Inter, he only for one season so we can hardly judge him on that

At Real Madrid, he is only into his second season and he may not even be at the helm after this season so its unfair to judge him on this too.

My point is, no owner has ever told Mourinho..

'Look pal, I am putting this club under your charge for the next five years. I do not care if we do not have much success in the short-term but I want you to improve Youth etc. to bring us success in the long-term'

At nearly all of his jobs, he was asked to bring in success quickly or he hated the environment and decided for himself that he did not want to stay at the club any longer (Inter Milan)

AVB showed completely zero evidence that he was a long-term manager when he came to Chelsea yet we brought him in hoping he could do it. We were also hoping AVB could suddenly do a long-term job and we were expecting him to change. If one had to pick on who would end up the better long-term manager if given the opportunity, the smart money would be on Mourinho.


Frankly speaking, we have only started to concentrate on your Youth in the last 3-4 years when Roman decided his spending spree will not hold this club together forever. We have brought in a great array of talent but the hiring/firing of managers is really affecting the set-up.

Roman cannot take any more gambles like he did with AVB and bring in someone proven. That is why I want Mourinho. Unai Emery will no doubt is a good option would be a bigger gamble than AVB as far as I am concerned although strangely enough, I want him as well

 

[Mike.]

He has not shown any evidence he is a long-term manager because he has never been given the chance to.

At Chelsea when he came in, Roman wanted to see returns for the amount of money he was putting into Chelsea in the form of trophies. The emphasis was more on the first-team during Mourinho's reign and yes he could have focused on the youth but Mourinho's main task was not to stabilize the club when he came in but bring in the Title.

At Inter, he only for one season so we can hardly judge him on that

At Real Madrid, he is only into his second season and he may not even be at the helm after this season so its unfair to judge him on this too.

My point is, no owner has ever told Mourinho..

'Look pal, I am putting this club under your charge for the next five years. I do not care if we do not have much success in the short-term but I want you to improve Youth etc. to bring us success in the long-term'

At nearly all of his jobs, he was asked to bring in success quickly or he hated the environment and decided for himself that he did not want to stay at the club any longer (Inter Milan)

AVB showed completely zero evidence that he was a long-term manager when he came to Chelsea yet we brought him in hoping he could do it. We were also hoping AVB could suddenly do a long-term job and we were expecting him to change. If one had to pick on who would end up the better long-term manager if given the opportunity, the smart money would be on Mourinho.


Frankly speaking, we have only started to concentrate on your Youth in the last 3-4 years when Roman decided his spending spree will not hold this club together forever. We have brought in a great array of talent but the hiring/firing of managers is really affecting the set-up.

Roman cannot take any more gambles like he did with AVB and bring in someone proven. That is why I want Mourinho. Unai Emery will no doubt is a good option would be a bigger gamble than AVB as far as I am concerned although strangely enough, I want him as well

you don't need to be told, the best managers have it as part of their inherent strategy from the get go. Klopp wasn't told he had 5 years, emery wasn't told he had 5 years. Mourinho has always been the ultimate pragmatist. That is his methodology. You want him as a long term manager, that's your perogative, but you can't argue he had tried in the past. All you can say that you hope he can show it in future. Indeed it's the exact reason I do not want him at old Trafford. Everything about his methodology and history says 3 years of short term trophy winning. And I really cannot see how Emery is a bigger gamble than AVB. Pulled Valencia from 10th, knows how to work egos, integrate youth, and play good football, take on the best sides, and work under the pressures of a big club.

 

[GodCubed]

I'm going to do something completely unprecedented and totally agree with Mike.

 

[Alcaraz]

you don't need to be told, the best managers have it as part of their inherent strategy from the get go. Klopp wasn't told he had 5 years, emery wasn't told he had 5 years. Mourinho has always been the ultimate pragmatist. That is his methodology. You want him as a long term manager, that's your perogative, but you can't argue he had tried in the past. All you can say that you hope he can show it in future.

Indeed it's the exact reason I do not want him at old Trafford. Everything about his methodology and history says 3 years of short term trophy winning. And I really cannot see how Emery is a bigger gamble than AVB. Pulled Valencia from 10th, knows how to work egos, integrate youth, and play good football, take on the best sides, and work under the pressures of a big club.

I am not arguing with you at all on the fact that Mourinho never tried to assume the role of a long-term manager in the past. I just think he was never given the proper circumstances to work in. I believe he can be a good long-term manager in the future and you do not. Think we should leave the argument here

Also Emery is a far bigger gamble than AVB

1. He can hardly speak english. He is still learning

2. Has never won a major trophy like AVB did

3. I dont know how many ego's Emery has handled but I doubt he has handled ones as big as the Chelsea dressing room

4. AVB also knows how to play good football and take on the best sides so Emery does not have an advantage there

5. AVB also worked under the pressure of a big club

All in all, Emery is a far bigger gamble than AVB. The only good thing is that Emery looks like he can do a better job long-term as he has done it at Valencia. We should only bring him in if he is given the chance to overhaul the squad this summer

 

[Mike.]

I am not arguing with you at all on the fact that Mourinho never tried to assume the role of a long-term manager in the past. I just think he was never given the proper circumstances to work in. I believe he can be a good long-term manager in the future and you do not. Think we should leave the argument here

Also Emery is a far bigger gamble than AVB

1. He can hardly speak english. He is still learning

2. Has never won a major trophy like AVB did

3. I dont know how many ego's Emery has handled but I doubt he has handled ones as big as the Chelsea dressing room

4. AVB also knows how to play good football and take on the best sides so Emery does not have an advantage there

5. AVB also worked under the pressure of a big club

All in all, Emery is a far bigger gamble than AVB. The only good thing is that Emery looks like he can do a better job long-term as he has done it at Valencia. We should only bring him in if he is given the chance to overhaul the squad this summer

Proper cirumstances? You either get on with it, or you dont.

The only issue is point one, though he still has a decent grasp

2) its pretty hard when you are up against the two best clubs in the world, and they have money you can only dream, whil you are forced to constantly sell your best players. Even Jose with all his money and the best players in the world, is only just about to achieve the league this season

3) He handled players of Valencia

4) Really? your issues of AVB is that he didnt know what he was doing? not your trying to spin and say he played good football? He never had time to set up any definitive style.

5) AVB had one season, Emery has had 3, at a club with a bigger history,demand and tradition than Chelsea.

If you seriously think AVB was less of a gamble than Emery would, then there really isnt much to discuss.

 

[cfc12345]

Team to play Napoli: Cech Ivanovic Luiz Terry Cole Essien Ramires Lampard Sturridge Mata Drogba

subs: Turnbull Cahill Bosingwa Mikel Malouda Kalou Torres

 

[maxy67]

Napoli have been very vocal this week that they won't make the same mistakes as Milan made against Arsenal, and intend to hit chelsea on the counter repeatedly. Lavezzi, Hamsik and Cavani are an amazing trio (as well as the rest of the side who work hard and show some occasional magic)- Napoli's 6-3 demolition of Cagliari shows how dangerous they are atm. Reckon Drogba and Mata will be a threat tonight as well.

Should be an interesting game tonight looking forward to it!