The Chelsea Thread

[Subtle]

Eh, i think i'd try playing 4-3-2-1 actually

Wait, so your solution to us not having enough midfielders to play 2 that actually work together is to play 3 instead?

 

[Subtle]

To counter that problem couldn't you drop Luiz further back into defence and then push terry and Cahill further out onto the wings, therefore stopping the counter attacking movement.

Pushing the fullbacks up and sending the centre backs out only works in certain situations. Most formations do it so they can get overlap or so that their winger can cut inside not to get a tiny bit of width to start off with. If anything, that's going to exasperate our problems out wide because we it's our biggest defensive issue too. Having a single player on either flank and cover from the centre backs would just lead to us getting ****** even harder.

 

[CJACKO11]

Jacko, calling Swansea a bottom half team is harsh. Calling them mid table is reasonable, but they're certainly a team that can cause problems to anyone. I understand your frustration but you shouldn't underestimate them.

That said, the focus of your criticism, as with most Chelsea fans, is Rafa. I'll be honest here, I don't like Rafa, neither as a person nor as a manager. I don't like his style, I think his squad selection has been poor and his subs are questionable. But you can't deny his achievements, both at Valencia and during most of his time at Liverpool (he was ***** at Inter, though), which in short means that whether I like it or not, his style works. The problem here lies in the fact that his style require certain types of players which you don't currently have, and his squad selection and subs are affected by this as well.

I don't think you can defend his squad selection against QPR or his decision to start Torres regardless of his shitness, but you can't put all of the blame on Rafa. The problem is simple - di Matteo "built" -for lack of a better word- a squad he liked, but when he got the boot, he was replaced by the only half decent manager around that was willing to take a big fat pay cheque and the chance to win some silverware in 6 months - and you can thank Tim Roth's russian evil twin for that. If you consistently sack a manager or two every season, being honest, who'd want to take the job? And don't get me wrong, my previous statement wasn't meant to make Rafa sound like a moneygrabber. He took the only available job around to try and get his career back on track - and as previously stated he was the only good manager around willing to take such a job. Neither club nor manager had much of a choice here.

And while I think we can all agree that he may be trying to fit square pegs into round holes -having to play a Lampard-Ramires double pivot, for instance- it's not his fault that he's only got square pegs. He inherited this squad and he's trying to make do with what he has at his disposal, which will obviously not yield ideal results, but that's what Rafa is stuck with, just like Chelsea are stuck with him. You may not like Rafa, I certainly don't, but if you think sacking him would change anything, you're right, it would, but for the worse. Who on earth would take the Chelsea job then? All I can say is be patient, get behind him and hope for the best. Me, on the other hand... well, I'll still enjoy watching you guys get done by QPR and Southampton and Torres' lousy attempts at being a forward.

First of all I will say plenty of managers have won things/done impressive things but they struggled everywhere else Rijkaard to name one. Does that make them a good manager of just in the right place at the right time? Lets be honest Rafa done a decent job with Liverpool but they should have won the title and they are remembered for not winning it because he lost control of the situation and let Utd's pressure get on top of them. I fully accept and said so in my article that the team is currently un balanced and that is not down to Rafa that's why i didn't blame it on him. I questioned his subs, timing of subs and reasoning for sticking with a formation that will not work at the moment. I also question his rotation policy resting players when not needed, i know i will hear all players need resting etc but do they really when its your best player i.e Mata? How often to Barca rest Messi and Madrid Ronaldo?

And do you really think Di Matteo had a say on any transfers in the summer? I'll answer that for you because I have been told from various trusted places that transfers/contract negotiations are down to Emenalo and recent goings ons back that up. When we tried to sign Taison earlier this month, he has been a target since the summer so it's obviously not a manager target? I have accepted that the team was still un-balanced under Di Matteo but what Di Matteo had which Rafa doesn't was all players on board and the full backing/trust of the supporters and was still learning his trade, Rafa is used to one way and will not change it. Do you really think we would be this angry going out of competitions if Di Matteo was in charge because i know 100% i wouldn't be (yes the JCL's would be obviously but winning is all they know). Trophies is not he be all end all and i fully expected us to just re-build for the future this season as long as we finished closer in the league to Manchester x2 and if we picked up a trophy or two along the way then that's a bonus.

Eh, i think i'd try playing 4-3-2-1 actually, with Cole and Apli providing width thanks to increased cover from 3 central mids, Ramirez and Luiz as dynamic midfield enforcers making occassional forward runs and Mikel wrapping it all up. Hazard , Mata and Oscar all seem to feel most comfortable if they're allowed to roam rather then being forced to the wings, plus then you can actually rotate them instead of playing Mata into exhaustion.

Armchair general Tyton at your service.

I would be all for this but Moses will be back soon and he does give us some width. Something needs to change though definitely and a manager change would be a good start.

 

[CJACKO11]

Is this the right moment to have a good old laugh again about sending Essien out on loan for the season with no clause to be able to recall him?

Only at Chelsea my friend, only at Chelsea

 

[Subtle]

and a manager change would be a good start.

Why? I'd be happy to give Benitez a chance with a more balanced squad before giving him the boot.

 

[CJACKO11]

Why? I'd be happy to give Benitez a chance with a more balanced squad before giving him the boot.

Reason's being i don't actually rate him as a good manager and never have done plus throw in the fact i hate the c**t.

 

[Athe~]

First of all I will say plenty of managers have won things/done impressive things but they struggled everywhere else Rijkaard to name one. Does that make them a good manager of just in the right place at the right time? Lets be honest Rafa done a decent job with Liverpool but they should have won the title and they are remembered for not winning it because he lost control of the situation and let Utd's pressure get on top of them. I fully accept and said so in my article that the team is currently un balanced and that is not down to Rafa that's why i didn't blame it on him. I questioned his subs, timing of subs and reasoning for sticking with a formation that will not work at the moment. I also question his rotation policy resting players when not needed, i know i will hear all players need resting etc but do they really when its your best player i.e Mata? How often to Barca rest Messi and Madrid Ronaldo?

And do you really think Di Matteo had a say on any transfers in the summer? I'll answer that for you because I have been told from various trusted places that transfers/contract negotiations are down to Emenalo and recent goings ons back that up. When we tried to sign Taison earlier this month, he has been a target since the summer so it's obviously not a manager target? I have accepted that the team was still un-balanced under Di Matteo but what Di Matteo had which Rafa doesn't was all players on board and the full backing/trust of the supporters and was still learning his trade, Rafa is used to one way and will not change it. Do you really think we would be this angry going out of competitions if Di Matteo was in charge because i know 100% i wouldn't be (yes the JCL's would be obviously but winning is all they know). Trophies is not he be all end all and i fully expected us to just re-build for the future this season as long as we finished closer in the league to Manchester x2 and if we picked up a trophy or two along the way then that's a bonus.

It's not only Liverpool - it's Valencia as well. He got the Liverpool job after a cracking job with them. And regardless of whether RDM had a say on transfers or not, the point is Rafa didn't and as such he has to adapt to a squad that isn't ready to play the way he wants them to. You say he could adapt and I agree, but there's a difference between adapting and scrapping your strategy altogether. At the beginning of the season José (to name one of countless managers, and one of "your own" at that) had Modric/Sahin/Alonso in the middle of the park and you don't see him trying to play tiki-taka, even if on paper it could work wonders. And regarding his rotation, putting Mata, even though he's indeed your best player, at the same level as Ronaldo and Messi is ludicrous. They're not rested because nobody else can fill in their shoes (although they do tend to rest in some cup games, playing only a few minutes). While Mata is indeed hard to replace, Rafa thought he could do it and he's got a decent point - on paper, you're not exactly short on creativity up front. In practice... well, in practice it didn't quite work out, did it...

Fianlly, I do agree that trophies are not the be all and end all - which is good, because the only way we'd get a trophy is if we got relegated to the champo and even then getting promoted as champions would be nothing short of an ordeal. But it doesn't really matter if we agree on it or not, once again it's mr. Tim Roth that calls the shots here, and he wants his trophies, and he wants them quickly. I understand your frustration at the sacking of di Matteo, believe me, I do, but it isn't exactly Rafa's (who, I'll repeat, I don't quite like) fault now is it? And he may be an *******, but he's your ******* now and putting extra pressure on him is not really helping your team. Plus, that's supposed to be my job.

Anyways, in short, Chelsea are where they are because of Roman Abramovich, both for the good things (multiple domestic titles, UCL, star players...) and the bad things (managerial instability, fair weather fans, high wages, bizarrely imbalanced squads, being -in more than one occasion- the laughing stock of the league...). If anything, your criticism should be aimed at him, although you're in his pocket now and there's not much you and your fellow fans can do about it.

 

[Average Joe]

Right, in summer - who should Chelsea buy? Everybody is saying the bench isn't good enough so who would you bring into the team?

 

[CJACKO11]

It's not only Liverpool - it's Valencia as well. He got the Liverpool job after a cracking job with them. And regardless of whether RDM had a say on transfers or not, the point is Rafa didn't and as such he has to adapt to a squad that isn't ready to play the way he wants them to. You say he could adapt and I agree, but there's a difference between adapting and scrapping your strategy altogether. At the beginning of the season José (to name one of countless managers, and one of "your own" at that) had Modric/Sahin/Alonso in the middle of the park and you don't see him trying to play tiki-taka, even if on paper it could work wonders. And regarding his rotation, putting Mata, even though he's indeed your best player, at the same level as Ronaldo and Messi is ludicrous. They're not rested because nobody else can fill in their shoes (although they do tend to rest in some cup games, playing only a few minutes). While Mata is indeed hard to replace, Rafa thought he could do it and he's got a decent point - on paper, you're not exactly short on creativity up front. In practice... well, in practice it didn't quite work out, did it...

Fianlly, I do agree that trophies are not the be all and end all - which is good, because the only way we'd get a trophy is if we got relegated to the champo and even then getting promoted as champions would be nothing short of an ordeal. But it doesn't really matter if we agree on it or not, once again it's mr. Tim Roth that calls the shots here, and he wants his trophies, and he wants them quickly. I understand your frustration at the sacking of di Matteo, believe me, I do, but it isn't exactly Rafa's (who, I'll repeat, I don't quite like) fault now is it? And he may be an *******, but he's your ******* now and putting extra pressure on him is not really helping your team. Plus, that's supposed to be my job.

Anyways, in short, Chelsea are where they are because of Roman Abramovich, both for the good things (multiple domestic titles, UCL, star players...) and the bad things (managerial instability, fair weather fans, high wages, bizarrely imbalanced squads, being -in more than one occasion- the laughing stock of the league...). If anything, your criticism should be aimed at him, although you're in his pocket now and there's not much you and your fellow fans can do about it.

I fully understand Mata is not or anywhere near the same level as Messi or Ronaldo but to Chelsea he is the equivalent in my opinion. I also agree and have said from day one i do not blame Rafa for taking this job not at all, he would have been a mug to turn it down. And my main gripe is with Roman but more importantly the men assisting him and i said as much in a recent blog i wrote. But i have always disliked Rafa and that won't change, he and Chelsea was never going to work and the only reason he got the job was to make Torres work its clear to see that. I don't agree though that the pressure if not helping the team because there is hardly any pressure especially in home games. If anything there is no atmosphere at home and going by personal experience when i went to a home and away game 3 days apart the fans were far more vocal in the away game including more renditions of anti Rafa chants. We lost the home game where there was no chants let along anti rafa chants but won the away tie. Blaming the fans is just an easy excuse in my opinion.

 

[Nick Chelsea]

I think we've said so many times who we want and should buy, what types of players etc.

 

[CJACKO11]

Right, in summer - who should Chelsea buy? Everybody is saying the bench isn't good enough so who would you bring into the team?

Summer activity:
Bring back McEachran, De Bryune, Lukaku and Kalas.
Sell Malouda, Torres, Benayoun Ferriera and Essien.
Sign one of Falcao/Lewandowski/Higuain, Moutinho/Modric and a winger (one that gets chalk on his boots, no preference)
If long term is allowed manager wise either Simeone, Moyes or Klopp. If short term then Jose.

 

[Mike.]

Summer activity:
Bring back McEachran, De Bryune, Lukaku and Kalas.
Sell Malouda, Torres, Benayoun Ferriera and Essien.
Sign one of Falcao/Lewandowski/Higuain, Moutinho/Modric and a winger (one that gets chalk on his boots, no preference)
If long term is allowed manager wise either Simeone, Moyes or Klopp. If short term then Jose.

You wont get any of those three managers, maybe Moyes actually, definitely not Klopp or Simeone.

As for the bold. Sign Benat, Griezmann, Aspas. £50m for the trio. Your cominbation would be in excess of £80m. And dont sell Essien.

 

[Subtle]

Josh is definitely not ready yet. In my mind at least, he is going to be a regista and he will need another 1/2 years of first team experience minimum before he can play in the first team on a regular basis.

I would like to see Lukaku get one more year on loan, but at a bigger club.

 

[oja20]

As for the bold. Sign Benat, Griezmann, Aspas. £50m for the trio. Your cominbation would be in excess of £80m. And dont sell Essien.

Yum.

Also CJacko vs Rafa is getting boring.

 

[Mike.]

Yum.

Also CJacko vs Rafa is getting boring.

Thats me assuming Benat will go for about £25m max, though i suspect it would be lower. Griezmann and Aspas have release clauses of 21m and 8.5m respectively (both in Euros)

 

[Athe~]

Thats me assuming Benat will go for about £25m max, though i suspect it would be lower. Griezmann and Aspas have release clauses of 21m and 8.5m respectively (both in Euros)

Aspas' clause is 10m Euros IIRC

 

[Mike.]

Aspas' clause is 10m Euros IIRC

You are right, it's 8.5m in pounds. still must be activated

 

[Tyton]

Looking at a formation's weaknesses and going 'welp, it's already broken, might as well just break it further' has pretty much never worked as a method for improving teams in the entire history of football

No, but playing a formation that suits your squad more, might actually work.

As I've said, the problem here isn't the formation. It has worked before and it has the capacity to work again. The problem here is the personnel.

Well, but that's my point. 4-2-3-1 is fine, but using it without that guy who will run the game spraying passes from the deep, is like driving without engine.

 

[Tyton]

Pushing the fullbacks up and sending the centre backs out only works in certain situations

It would work better than what you currently do. Right now you're dependant on full backs for width but should, say, Ramires and Cole push forward and the counterattack comes down the wing, you are depandant on dwarves to track back and on Lampard's "exceptional" tackling and positioning. So your defense is 3 remaining defenders and two attacking players, one of which might not even bother to show up.

Same situation in 4-3-2-1, Cole and Ramires push forward, Luiz drops deep, counter comes down the wing, at any given time you still have 5 man behind the ball ,and this time they're all defensively skilled. So even if playing just 3 attacking players as opposed to 4 would allow the other team to counter with more people, you're still better off.

Wait, so your solution to us not having enough midfielders to play 2 that actually work together is to play 3 instead?

Well, like i already said to GC, i wasn't really planning as far as backup players, haha.

 

[oja20]

Thats me assuming Benat will go for about £25m max, though i suspect it would be lower. Griezmann and Aspas have release clauses of 21m and 8.5m respectively (both in Euros)

Doesn't Benat have a release clause? Or did have? Maybe it was Betis asking for a price. Basically I don't know.