The Liverpool Thread

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I really doubt Mignolet renewal was actually decided by Klopp. Everything thats been coming out about the club and especially what Rodgers said on weekend points out that this was decided by owners.
 
I really doubt Mignolet renewal was actually decided by Klopp. Everything thats been coming out about the club and especially what Rodgers said on weekend points out that this was decided by owners.

Nah. This isn't Rodgers. The buck really now does stop with the manager on everything. No doubt he's signed off on this.

I just pray to God he's not done it with Mingolet as a first choice no longer than this year and there's some other longer term plan behind it.
 
I'll be honest here. Klopp needs to pull his head out of his ***, and stop trying to play his preferred style with squad that was neither build for it, nor physically prepared for it. I have no doubt that he can pull-off Dortmund style pressing even in Premier League. But this isn't something that you can introduce mid season. Not in this league, not with this fixture congestion.

Do the extra physical training that's necessary during preseason, then start playing hardcore pressing. It really is no use now. Not because it won't work every once on a while, but because they won't be able to keep it up.

He really needs to eat up his ego and use whatever tactics are necessary to chase top 4. It would be criminal if you don't make it in one year where Chelsea is out of the picture.

And he needs to work Benteke into the squad, period. I don't care if takes 4-4-2, 3-4-3, 1-9-1, it doesn't matter. The biggest problem right now is defending set pieces and finishing, and Benteke happens to solve them all. He won't know how to zonal mark, that takes some learning, but he sure as **** can man-mark one of the bigger dudes.
 
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Another excellent article from him. Some really good stuff over there. Just always very long and detailed so it does indeed need time to sit down and read through haha.

Yeah, it wasn't lost the amount of times Klopp stressed the height issue when talking about the Caulker solution and how you need big guys who are good in the air when you're pressing high and forcing defenders to be harried to just lump it clear.

Certainly a big part of what we're now looking for in players, along with strength. (Another area we struggle with. Way too easily shrugged off the ball.).

Squads been too light and gutless in both facets for far too long now.
 
I'll be honest here. Klopp needs to pull his head out of his *** .....

And he needs to work Benteke into the squad, period. I don't care if takes 4-4-2, 3-4-3, 1-9-1, it doesn't matter. The biggest problem right now is defending set pieces and finishing, and Benteke happens to solve them all. He won't know how to zonal mark, that takes some learning, but he sure as **** can man-mark one of the bigger dudes.

The first line would be better suited to the last paragraph.

Doesn't matter what system/ style of play you use when Benteke goes out there and sulks and doesn't move his lazy f-ing ***. Dude could and should be a big contributor right now regardless. But that's a MASSIVE 'could and should' with his **** poor attitude. In his defence, he has been isolated at times and Coutinho in particular doesn't seem to either trust him or want to pass to him. But that's NO excuse for his attitude and lack of effort. Even with a partner up alongside him he's not been interested.

Fully expecting him to be the worst player on the pitch yet again tomorrow and be out of the club come the summer.
 
Oh for a Sturridge or Ings to be healthy converting those chances.

Oh for a competent 'keeper and defenders to stop ******* costing us dear from corners.

Our season in a nutshell. But at least we know we're headed in the right direction. Just need better players to turn those stats into the points they should be.

Those stats are very misleading. Chance creation is very vague term. Liverpool players just shoot from ridiculous distances, that alone shoots up chance creation stats. For example, few games back Clyne tried 2 shots from very long distance, it was from clearance from corner, Clyne stayed back and he took a shot from there twice.

Coutinho alone shot 48 times from outside the box. Whole Arsenal team took 91 shots and Barca took 94 shots in total from outside the box.

Liverpool took 162 shots from outside the box, that's around 8 shots per game.

Whole chance creation stat is useless to an extent and your problem is just not a player who can convert those chances. The chances are not clear cut. It's just random shooting which keepers deals with all day long.

When the play reaches certain phase, Liverpool players just shoot whereas other teams wait to have more clear shot on goal.
 

Again that looks more like an excuse, for example he says he felt Liverpool will concede from corner or cross against Arsenal because they have some 3 CMs height advantage but none of the goals Arsenal scored are headers. They are all neatly worked goal and Giroud scoring from corner has nothing to do with height, he scored with his foot.

There are teams like West Ham, Stoke (usually), and some smaller teams who always have height advantage but no one uses that excuse. For example, in that same article it says City's average height is 180 CM and Liverpool's is 178 to 180. Never seen City using that as an excuse.

Also average height of Liverpool is 178-180 CM, and 12 out of 14 teams mentioned have average height from 180CM to 183 CM. That's just 3 CM.

That article looks just one more excuse for failing to organize defence in set pieces.

Lucas, Can, Skrtel, Lovern, Sakho all plays in the middle and all have aerial winning percentage of more than 50% to 80%.

Edit: One of the report from talk sport.
http://talksport.com/football/premi...height-smallest-tallest-2015-151111173784?p=6

Liverpool team are taller than Spurs, City, Arsenal, Everton.


One of the study was conducted in Aug 2015 and Liverpool were 8th above teams like ManUtd, ManCity, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, Leicester.
http://talksport.com/football/premi...age-height-shortest-tallest-150826164225?p=12
 
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Those stats are very misleading. Chance creation is very vague term. Liverpool players just shoot from ridiculous distances, that alone shoots up chance creation stats. For example, few games back Clyne tried 2 shots from very long distance, it was from clearance from corner, Clyne stayed back and he took a shot from there twice.

.....

Liverpool took 162 shots from outside the box, that's around 8 ***** per game.

Thanks for the interest in our stats.

I honestly don't know what the ratio would be from other teams. If I can be bothered to sit down and look at it all later I will but I've never been a big statistical guy. On a quick look over the last 5 league games we have around a 5 percent swing on all shots outside the box to inside from chances created. (52% outside<55>/ 47% inside <50>.).

So certainly recently it's not that disproportionate.
 
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Thanks for the interest in our stats.

I honestly don't know what the ratio would be from other teams. If I can be bothered to sit down and look at it all later I will but I've never been a big statistical guy. On a quick look over the last 5 league games we have around a 5 percent swing on all shots outside the box to inside from chances created. (52% outside<55>/ 47% inside <50>).

So certainly recently it's not that disproportionate.

Cheeky but there is nothing like our stats and your stats. All you need to do is select one more team in the drop down.
 
Cheeky but there is nothing like our stats and your stats. All you need to do is select one more team in the drop down.

Again, not got the time until I'm home to do an in-depth study. But over the last 5 league games, if you exclude the Swansea game which is a real disparity through which you had 16 shots inside the area and 3 outside, you're not that different to ourselves. Just a 6% swing between both clubs in Utd's favour shots inside and outside the box to chances created.

Including Swansea: 38 shots inside (62%)/ 23 outside. (38%.).
Excluding Swansea and taking the next game Norwich: 28 shots inside (53%)/ 25 outside. (53%).

United probably aren't a good comparison at all as you're well down on total shots and chances created regardless. And I don't know what the ratio would look like in comparison since Klopp took over without researching.

Again, certainly recently, it's not that disproportionate at all to Utd as you mentioned.

*Edit* FWIW, whenever I'm inclined to look at stats like these (which is very rarely. Much prefer the one I can trust on most things. The eye test. Stats can be manipulated often however you like), I tend to find this about the best and most commonly accepted place to go:http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone/results/8-2015#:TBx2g-_M45PUgA
 
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Again, not got the time until I'm home to do an in-depth study. But over the last 5 league games, if you exclude the Swansea game which is a real disparity through which you had 16 shots inside the area and 3 outside, you're not that different to ourselves. Just a 6% swing between both clubs in Utd's favour shots inside and outside the box to chances created.


Including Swansea: 38 shots inside (62%)/ 23 outside. (38%.).
Excluding Swansea and taking the next game Norwich: 28 shots inside (53%)/ 25 outside. (53%).


United probably aren't a good comparison at all as you're well down on total shots and chances created regardless. And I don't know what the ratio would look like in comparison since Klopp took over without researching.


Again, certainly recently, it's not that disproportionate at all to Utd as you mentioned.


You are talking about percentages, I'm taking about just numbers. I will post numbers after sometime.


All the numbers from Squwaka,
Vs United, total shots 19. 12 shots from outside the box. It also says 15 chances created which is laughable,
Vs Arsenal, total shots 22. 11 shots from outside the box.
Vs West Ham, total shots 23, 15 from outside the box. Chances created - 19 and that's even more laughable.
Vs Sunderland, total shots 17, 7 from outside the box.
Vs Leicester, total shots 26, 13 from outside the box.
Vs Watford, total shots 12, 5 from outside the box.
Vs WBA, total shots 28, 17 from outside the box.
Vs Newcastle, total shots 10, 5 from outside the box.
Vs Swansea, total shots 10, 2 from outside the box.
Vs City, total shots 14, 4 from outside the box.
Vs Palace, total shots 22, 7 from outside the box.
Vs Chelsea, total shots 16, 6 from outside the box,
Vs Shouthampton, total shots 15, 7 from outside the box.
Vs Spurs, total shots 12, 9 from outside the box.


Total shots: 246
Outside the box: 120

These stats itself shows how chance creation stat is very misleading. You didn't create 15 chances against United and not 19 for sure against West Ham.
 
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Hey, if that's how they list 'chances created', that's how they list 'chances created.' Same goes for every team. It is what it is.

What 'worth' is in them or most stats for that matter is another issue again. Why I personally don't bother with stats much at all.

That said, going on 'how' they record these things, that's a nice swing inside to outside the box.
 
Flanagan in contention to be on the bench tomorrow. Holy heck that's a lot sooner than anyone hoped.

Excellent news after the last 19/20 months he's been through.
 
Hey, if that's how they list 'chances created', that's how they list 'chances created.' Same goes for every team. It is what it is.
.

Yes, but when you have players like Coutinho who just shoots randomly then the stats are skewed. That's the point. So conversion rate is not the problem for Liverpool as the stats don't show the clear picture.
 
Yes, but when you have players like Coutinho who just shoots randomly then the stats are skewed. That's the point. So conversion rate is not the problem for Liverpool as the stats don't show the clear picture.

Right. So take Coutinho out of the equation and our in the box/ outside the box shots to chances created changes measurably.

But regardless, the overall point stands that had we had any semblance of a competent goalscorer playing and not injured this year, along with a competent goalkeeper, we'd be a lot better off points wise. Injuries and inferior players have masked a lot of the difference in play under Klopp than before. Which goes to the wider point as to why he's been given more of a pass as the signs are very bright for the future when a better calibre of player is out there in those areas to add to all the other good work that we've seen under him.
 
The Exeter pre-game presser. People won't like what he say's on Mingolet (Myself included but that is what it is. Still hoping they'll be a 'keeper addition in the summer to help my rationalise this. But we'll see.). He reiterates again that he has the first and final say over everything. (The 'committee' thing is getting tiresome. Rodgers has gone and we trust this guy.). Flanno and a similar team against Exeter to last time and why. And given the recent discussion, our goal creating/ lack of taking chances situation. Still no Sturridge not surprisingly and just where he's at. Which is a ways away still. Sigh.

[video=youtube;u8T976pEuJs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8T976pEuJs[/video]
 
Still hoping they'll be a 'keeper addition in the summer to help my rationalise this.

I fear that's wishful thinking. He even uses the word 'perfect' to describe him... Why don't these journalists pull up the numbers on personal mistakes leading to goals? Why don't they ask him how he feels about Liverpool fans complaining and opposition fans celebrating his renewal? Why don't they bring up his lack of control of the area? I thought they wanted headlines, that's how you get headlines.

We'll never win the league with Mignolet as first choice goalkeeper, I'm willing to bet a ******** on that. Feel free to bring up this quote in the future, I'll stand by it and even perform the procedure myself. With a rusty butter knife.
 
I fear that's wishful thinking. He even uses the word 'perfect' to describe him... Why don't these journalists pull up the numbers on personal mistakes leading to goals? Why don't they ask him how he feels about Liverpool fans complaining and opposition fans celebrating his renewal? Why don't they bring up his lack of control of the area? I thought they wanted headlines, that's how you get headlines.

We'll never win the league with Mignolet as first choice goalkeeper, I'm willing to bet a ******** on that. Feel free to bring up this quote in the future, I'll stand by it and even perform the procedure myself. With a rusty butter knife.

With everything you and most everyone else keeps saying.

I just need something to cling to to try rationalise this or else I'd of drunk myself into an early grave the last 24 hours.

There was two lads the bus tonight discussing it and one was vainly trying to suggest that maybe we're just 'protecting our interest' by making sure we get a decent fee the summer. And his mate was like 'What f-ing interest? Who the f would give us even what we paid for him if we put him on the open market?'

This just doesn't make a lick of sense whatever way you try reason it. And I've yet to talk to anyone that is not absolutely stunned and ****** by yesterdays ridiculous announcement.
 
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