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A major step in the right direction for FSG would be to bin the complete laughing stock of a GM they have this side of the pond.

With picture all over the net of him living it up in Kazan with 2 brasses, and completely taking the **** by taking them the match on each arm, on top of everything else they'd be utterly foolish to keep employing Mr 'be careful what you wish for.'

Finding a replacement to Ayre and have him rebuild the relationship between fans and clubs this side of the Atlantic would be a very prudent net move for them.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Then aside from this that doesn't deserve the respect of answer so feel free to continue being subjective (ly ridiculousness) in your standards of whats worthy and whats not.

Have at it Sir.
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see what i mean you keep thinking you have won some thing then jump at any 1 that says otherwise but ill leave it there cos i cant really be arsed
 
Scouse, I think you're missing the point slightly. I think what they're saying is that yes, the protest achieved it's aim, and was therefore a success. You did what you had to do to get the outcome you wanted, and you got it, which is excellent, and you should be happy. As a Liverpool fan myself I think it was absolutely the right thing to do.

However, there is also the possibility that, whilst you are delighted with the result, so too are FSG. It's entirely possible - and depending on how cynical you are, even probable or closer to certain - that they are just as pleased with the outcome as you are. Thinking from their perspective, the price increase could have gone one of two ways. Either it is accepted and they make more money, or it's protested, and they return the prices to the same level they were, and the fans are happy. Before the proposed price increase, would you have considered the 59 pound tickets exorbitant? Because from all the celebrating, that price is now being treated as a win for the fans, and therefore, they've successfully increased the "acceptable price" threshold.

I've seen actual studies on things like this. A simple example is a merchant selling something - let's say footballs - for $20. Sales are average, and plenty think they're overpriced. So the merchant increases the price to $30, and then reduces it to $24, advertising it as 20% off. Sales are much higher, even though the price is actually higher for the same product. As I say, studies have been done on this kind of thing. As long as the merchant can make the people believe that they are getting a good deal, their consumers will be happy, and will continue to buy.

You can draw a parallel here. People were unhappy with the 59 pound price, from what I gather. So they raise it to 77, spark outrage, reduce it to 59 again, and suddenly everyone is happy, because they've seen how it could be worse.

All this isn't saying the protest was futile or that you shouldn't be proud of it. You should. Just be wary because FSG could so easily be the winners here as well.
 
Who's happy with the £59 main stand and Kemmy top price again Patrick?

That was part of an ongoing 13 month working group. The protest Sat'day was against everything FSG did at the end of that on its base level. (More so standing up for your fellow fan and future generations on a more personal level to many who weren't affected by certain hikes.). And it achieved exactly what it set out. A complete u-turn. Now it's back to opening dialogue again and slowly bringing prices down. The whole landscape between ourselves and Boston has changed. I doubt anyone within the football club expected anything like the response and they've been seriously shaken to stark realisation that they now have to work with supporters and that we aren't just complete fools who'll follow like sheep.

Anyone completely naive enough to think that was that and nothing has shifted in that relationship doesn't understand our ongoing situation at all.

Said it when the news broke yesterday on here. It's only one step to where we want to be. But it was a MAJOR step and all credit to Boston for apologising and accepting they monumentally f-ed up and going from proposing making even more money out of supporters to making a loss on GDA alone. Now they need to get fully back on the journey to fairness.

Be nice if other supporters now followed suit. They have the power to completely change the whole landscape of the PL era of greed if they only realised they power the hold in unity.
 
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Scouseinthehouse said:
Who's happy with the £59 main stand and Kemmy top price again Patrick?
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That's the impression I get, I've seen a lot of people patting themselves on the back for the protest, but forgetting that the reality is that there's still work to be done. Hopefully further inroads can be made, but it's very difficult to imagine that FSG haven't prepared for just about any eventuality.

And they've just bought a whole lot of goodwill without spending a cent.
 
PatrickLFC said:
That's the impression I get, I've seen a lot of people patting themselves on the back for the protest, but forgetting that the reality is that there's still work to be done. Hopefully further inroads can be made, but it's very difficult to imagine that FSG haven't prepared for just about any eventuality.

And they've just bought a whole lot of goodwill without spending a cent.
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Hence Subtle's caution. be interesting to see the actual breakdown when the back slapping is done. And see if it leads anywhere over the next 6 months
 
Forgetting about the ticket prices, I am actually looking forward to the weekend with the likes of Coutinho, Origi and Sturridge in contention

Think we may see something like this: Mignolet, Clyne, Toure (I'd prefer Lucas), Sakho, Moreno, Milner, Can, Henderson, Lallana, Coutinho, Firmino

Meaning Sturridge, Benteke and Origi all as options from the bench
 
If the fans stop protesting now, we will be in this situation again in 12 months. We're actually at a point where now is cheaper for somebody to watch a La Liga match in Barcelona than it is to watch an away game in the Premier League.

PatrickLFC said:
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"Either it is accepted and they make more money, or it's protested, and they return the prices to the same level they were, and the fans are happy."

The sad reality is, nobody should be paying £59 to watch a game of football. However, you're very correct and that is exactly the issue I have with this situation.

This was a victory.. But it was only a battle, we have not won the war and we cannot win it alone. The prices charged are an absolute embarrassment throughout the Premier League. If clubs can protest in their thousands on a weekly basis we might actually get somewhere. The sponsors/ TV companies won't like seeing half empty grounds and dull atmosphere during protests, and only then will we begin to see any change.

Around 10,000-15,000 fans walked out at the Sunderland game and in my opinion that isn't enough. What excuse would anyone in that stadium have for not walking out? This is the most important issue in Premier League football right now and everybody should be supportive of this movement. Also, for fans of other clubs to come on this forum and criticise and belittle the fans achievement is disgusting.

"I've seen actual studies on things like this."

That sort of practice is illegal in this country and to argue that that's the case here is rather silly. They will no doubt try to increase the prices again next season but until fans stand up to their clubs on a nationwide level this will continue to happen. What we have learnt though, is the Liverpool fans are no push-overs. We will not be bullied into paying for the stadium despite the club making hundreds of millions a year, unlike a certain London club.
 
PatrickLFC said:
That's the impression I get, I've seen a lot of people patting themselves on the back for the protest, but forgetting that the reality is that there's still work to be done. Hopefully further inroads can be made, but it's very difficult to imagine that FSG haven't prepared for just about any eventuality.

And they've just bought a whole lot of goodwill without spending a cent.
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Then you're badly mistaken and somewhat ill-informed on this fight mate.

You've only to read the initial SOS/ Spion Kop 1906 joint response to tell you where we still stand:

Wednesday 10 February 2016 at 18:58

Statement from Spirit Of Shankly and Spion Kop 1906

Although the last week has been a sorry tale in the recent history of the relationship between owners of LFC and the Club’s supporters, it has also seen both the best of what Liverpool FC supporters are about and the incredible power those same supporters have to promote change for the better at LFC.

Today’s announcement has to be seen a positive step in repairing the relationship between owners and supporters. If they had recognised what was being said by supporters about the impact of the original price rises (perhaps by actually meeting with their own Ticketing Working Group) then much of the embarrassment and upset of the last four days would have been avoided. It is a sobering lesson in listening to your supporters properly.

We welcome these changes from the owners and that they have recognised the mistake made and apologised for it. We take no delight in them being wrong. It helps no one. What is important though is that a lesson is learned and that proper engagement and taking note of supporters’ concerns occurs and those views are taken more seriously.

We started this process to make football cheaper for all LFC supporters, to make it fairer and to increase access for younger and local supporters. This proposal is not our panacea. More must be done to make football affordable. However we have always stated that this is a journey that the owners should embark upon and this is a positive step in the right direction towards fairness and away from greed, but it is only one step.

We will now take this opportunity to review the numbers and their impact upon supporters, we will be speaking to the club about it and we will speak with supporters to get their views.

The Spirit of Shankly and Spion Kop 1906 believe that given the fact there has been this reconsideration by the owners, it is only fair and appropriate that we reconsider our next steps until the full impact of these changes can be established.


Don't be misguidingly thinking that is that my friend. Your supporters union has consistently lead the fight on fair, affordable prices for all and that isn't now at an end . Thos was just a major battle that has to be won along the way. And in so doing it's strengthened our hand considerably.
 
Yeah, no one was belittling it aannddyy so get off the moral high horse. Even Patrick is exercising caution, is he disgusting too?

Also Subtle's point was not about the legality of any practice, but whether it happens ( and it does, high street stores have been caught out time and again doing the very same with sale prices) as I said, what happens when the smoke clears and over the 6-12 months will be telling.
 
Aannddyy said:
..... Around 10,000-15,000 fans walked out at the Sunderland game and in my opinion that isn't enough. What excuse would anyone in that stadium have for not walking out? This is the most important issue in Premier League football right now and everybody should be supportive of this movement. Also, for fans of other clubs to come on this forum and criticise and belittle the fans achievement is disgusting......
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Fantastic overall post mate.

Just wanted to add on the quote .....

There was a lot, particular the Kop, who supported the walkout but didn't walk. Many long standing supporters. One, a lad from Derby who sits near me and who I've marched alongside during the fight against Hicks and Gillette. Walking out during a game is so un-fan like. However just it's a real hard decision to make. And especially here with the bond we have the team. So I kind of understand why they stayed. I don't agree. but I cn appreciate it. Protesting has to ultimately be an individual choice. The great thing was there wasn't any animosity like previous demo's. I heard a few having a go at those staying out of frustration. But it was minimal. And there wasn't much decent at those walking out from those who stayed either. Yeah, a fully empty stadium would of been brilliant. But to get upwards of 15,000 leave, many of whom came from main stand and kemmy seats which is the very last people you'd expect to walk, was beyond fantastic and sent a serious message that reverberated across the Atlantic.

What I don't understand is those that stayed with an 'I'm alright Jack, I can afford so f you' attitude. EVERYONE that walked out the Kop is now worse off. We were getting reductions on our tickets. Small ones but still relative. But we walked out for our fellow fan that were to be hit hard. Solidarity. And to expand that, this absolutely shameful belittling from certain quarters, not just here but more so across the net, beggars belief. This wasn't a Liverpool thing in the wider scope of things This is a FOOTBALL thing that concerns ALL supporters. If we'd bowed down, everyone would of been screwed as we'd be the example for every other club to run with for yet more greed next season. How anyone fails to see that and what can be achieved with the glaring example of the moments events of the past few days is staggering.

And no less disgusting as you noted.
 
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Mike. said:
Yeah, no one was belittling it aannddyy so get off the moral high horse. Even Patrick is exercising caution, is he disgusting too?

Also Subtle's point was not about the legality of any practice, but whether it happens ( and it does, high street stores have been caught out time and again doing the very same with sale prices) as I said, what happens when the smoke clears and over the 6-12 months will be telling.
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Tbh I'd just drawn a line under this and move on. I know I have. There is common sense being spoken yet it's being shouted down because when one get's so passionate about something, and you believe in something so strongly, other opionions become disregarded. Rightly or wrongly. This is something that cannot be discussed with civility sadly because passions become so intense a flame war breaks out then the **** hits the fan.

I've made my point. Of course I support some kind of protest against ticket prices becoming too high. But it's absolutely absurd to hurl insults at other people who make supportive-but cautious posts. People need to calm the **** down and think about what they're posting because someone will take it the wrong way and there'll be nasty fallout. We all love football and we're all fans-but it's sad when you can't post something objectively and well thought out. I stick to my point-and I couldn't care less what anyone thinks about me.

People just need to calm their skins sometimes. And that's my final thoughts on the matter.
 
ajt09 said:
Tbh I'd just drawn a line under this and move on. I know I have. There is common sense being spoken yet it's being shouted down because when one get's so passionate about something, and you believe in something so strongly, other opionions become disregarded. Rightly or wrongly. This is something that cannot be discussed with civility sadly because passions become so intense a flame war breaks out then the **** hits the fan.

I've made my point. Of course I support some kind of protest against ticket prices becoming too high. But it's absolutely absurd to hurl insults at other people who make supportive-but cautious posts. People need to calm the **** down and think about what they're posting because someone will take it the wrong way and there'll be nasty fallout. We all love football and we're all fans-but it's sad when you can't post something objectively and well thought out. I stick to my point-and I couldn't care less what anyone thinks about me.

People just need to calm their skins sometimes. And that's my final thoughts on the matter.
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Ever the voice of reason, Ajt.
 
ajt09 said:
Tbh I'd just drawn a line under this and move on. I know I have. There is common sense being spoken yet it's being shouted down because when one get's so passionate about something, and you believe in something so strongly, other opionions become disregarded. Rightly or wrongly. This is something that cannot be discussed with civility sadly because passions become so intense a flame war breaks out then the **** hits the fan.

I've made my point. Of course I support some kind of protest against ticket prices becoming too high. But it's absolutely absurd to hurl insults at other people who make supportive-but cautious posts. People need to calm the **** down and think about what they're posting because someone will take it the wrong way and there'll be nasty fallout. We all love football and we're all fans-but it's sad when you can't post something objectively and well thought out. I stick to my point-and I couldn't care less what anyone thinks about me.

People just need to calm their skins sometimes. And that's my final thoughts on the matter.
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As much as you tried to make (and half made) a salient point, that was insulting in itself.

But regardless, this being left right now is a wise way forward.
 
No, keep going. What am I supposed to do with all this popcorn?
 
Tyton said:
No, keep going. What am I supposed to do with all this popcorn?
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Well I was going to try get back to putting up some fantastic articles, both print and audio/ visual for L'pool fans sake.

Could of used the popcorn on that.

But I'm struggling as most contain some form of 'unprecedented', or 'ground breaking' or the like. Even from the oft sourced Barrett on here. (Great fella' him BTW. Really approachable. Both via social media or if you run across him in person in the pub before a game. Has some real interesting insight on the Sterling saga that is always worth asking him about. But I digress .....). And those apparently are the no-no words of the day.

So I'm struggling. Maybe throw it at random bystanders and see who out runs who?
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Well I was going to try get back to putting up some fantastic articles, both print and audio/ visual for L'pool fans sake.

Could of used the popcorn on that.

But I'm struggling as most contain some form of 'unprecedented', or 'ground breaking' or the like. Even from the oft sourced Barrett on here. (Great fella' him BTW. Really approachable. Both via social media or if you run across him in person in the pub before a game. Has some real interesting insight on the Sterling saga that is always worth asking him about. But I digress .....). And those apparently are the no-no words of the day.

So I'm struggling. Maybe throw it at random bystanders and see who out runs who?
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Its not unprecedented at all in any big business to make a U-turn that is complete and utter bollocks, right off the top of my head there is the steam paid for mods debacle. Steam a company worth an estimated 3-4 billion dollars that is a big enough company right? certainly worth more than Pool. Introduce paid for mods, 3 days of the customer base losing their **** they went back on it and refunded everyone, despite paid for mods seeing significant money change hands. So no not unprecendented in fact that had a quicker turnaround than this.

Also some of the rhetoric is absolute lolworthy, I see people on one side trying to have reasoned debate then the other side have to resort to personal attacks its hilarious.
 
I find this whole debate utterly boring and seemingly based purely on speculation, although I admit I haven't bothered to read every post in its entirety. But that's just me I guess.

(Before someone says "it's not speculation, this **** happens": I'm not denying that. But that it's happening in this case? That's speculation)
 
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