The Liverpool Thread

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Tonights exciting and all, but like a giddy kid counting down the hours to Friday lunchtime and 'holiday lottery day!'

And the way the pots are, we'd be massively unlucky not to drop on some boss trips. The Europa ****** all over the Champions League in that regard.

It's like Christmas day for adults. :).

Why I need a season ticket and the rest!

We didn't even want Champions League football.
 
We didn't even want Champions League football.

We didn't even want Europa League football as a club. ;).

Funny how you view things as a fan. Naturally, you want to be in the Champions League. It's where we belong and what we've always been all about playing at Europe's top table. But with the same teams more or less year in, year out, those trips get predictable. So when you get a chance of something different in the Europa, it's a far more exciting prospect. And there's three or four potential brilliant trips in every pot. (Along with some horrendously long, expensive, and logistical nightmares. Astana would be a longer trip for example than Aberdeen made with their record haul the last round of qualifiers. Initial look at that through Moscow (not even half way), involves 8 hours in Moscow where you wouldn't even be able to leave the airport down to not having the Visa, and the flights are ridiculously early in and out of Khazikstan.).

Other fans who just have a passing look at Thursday night Europa games and naturally mock at some of the names and places. But they often make for boss, real fun trips. And you know unless it's a big one, most won't bother unlike the Champions League so prices stay lower which is all relative.

I'm babling but I love the group draws as good as any day in the calendar. It is like a holiday lottery. 3 potential trips that you don't know where your going but you know your gonna' have a great time and some stories to tell no matter how it ultimately goes.
 
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We didn't even want Europa League football as a club. ;).

Funny how you view things as a fan. Naturally, you want to be in the Champions League. It's where we belong and what we've always been all about playing at Europe's top table. But with the same teams more or less year in, year out, those trips get predictable. So when you get a chance of something different in the Europa, it's a far more exciting prospect. And there's three or four potential brilliant trips in every pot. (Along with some horrendously long, expensive, and logistical nightmares. Astana would be a longer trip for example than Aberdeen made with their record haul the last round of qualifiers. Initial look at that through Moscow (not even half way), involves 8 hours in Moscow where you wouldn't even be able to leave the airport down to not having the Visa, and the flights are ridiculously early in and out of Khazikstan.).

Other fans who just have a passing look at Thursday night Europa games and naturally mock at some of the names and places. But they often make for boss, real fun trips. And you know unless it's a big one, most won't bother unlike the Champions League so prices stay lower which is all relative.

I'm babling but I love the group draws as good as any day in the calendar. It is like a holiday lottery. 3 potential trips that you don't know where your going but you know your gonna' have a great time and some stories to tell no matter how it ultimately goes.

It does frustrate me how English clubs (majority) seem to undervalue the Europa League.

Yes, it is not the top european competition but it is still a european trophy and a hard one to win. Look at Sevilla and their continued efforts in the EL.

West Ham for me was the worst example. What exactly are they trying to achieve? They are not in a relegation battle and are very unlikely to break into the top 6/7 so a Europa League run should be seen as a fantastic opportunity. Instead they play the kids and get beat
 
We didn't even want Europa League football as a club. ;).

Funny how you view things as a fan. Naturally, you want to be in the Champions League. It's where we belong and what we've always been all about playing at Europe's top table. But with the same teams more or less year in, year out, those trips get predictable. So when you get a chance of something different in the Europa, it's a far more exciting prospect. And there's three or four potential brilliant trips in every pot. (Along with some horrendously long, expensive, and logistical nightmares. Astana would be a longer trip for example than Aberdeen made with their record haul the last round of qualifiers. Initial look at that through Moscow (not even half way), involves 8 hours in Moscow where you wouldn't even be able to leave the airport down to not having the Visa, and the flights are ridiculously early in and out of Khazikstan.).

Other fans who just have a passing look at Thursday night Europa games and naturally mock at some of the names and places. But they often make for boss, real fun trips. And you know unless it's a big one, most won't bother unlike the Champions League so prices stay lower which is all relative.

I'm babling but I love the group draws as good as any day in the calendar. It is like a holiday lottery. 3 potential trips that you don't know where your going but you know your gonna' have a great time and some stories to tell no matter how it ultimately goes.

Yeah, it's not where you want to be, but it doesn't mean it's rubbish. Especially if you get through the Kos. Bear in mind that the co-efficients are important, especially if you do ever return to the CL ( now is the season by the way, guardiola will leave next season, and there is every chance he will end up is Manchester, probabaly United as City are league favourites). Real chance of a euro trophy, which of course would put you in the CL anyway.
 
Liverpool fan here since 2005. I really don't like our chances this year for Champions League qualification, even though I don't admit it in front of my mates who support Arsenal and Man.Utd.

I don't like Rodgers at all, he let our best player ever leave, even though he was performing at a very high level (top goalscorer in DLP position is insane at 34 years old). He didn't spend his budget well (Reus-A.Traore-Depay-Kovacic-Vietto could easily be ours by now) and he insists playing without a DM.

I'm not the type of guy who moans about everything, I just don't think that he's the right person for the job. In 2013/14 season he was carried by Suarez-Sturridge-Gerrard and we saw what happend when Suarez left the club, Sturridge shown why Chelsea got rid of him so easily (Injury prone) and Stevie was sitting on the bench in order for Joe Allen to play.

The only way to save the season is to sack Rodgers by January and play all in for Klopp. Give him what he wants, get Gerrard back on loan and make a final push for the Champions League positions. Right now, Man.Utd, Man.City, Chelsea and Arsenal have stronger squads than our own.
 
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It does frustrate me how English clubs (majority) seem to undervalue the Europa League.

Yes, it is not the top european competition but it is still a european trophy and a hard one to win. Look at Sevilla and their continued efforts in the EL.

West Ham for me was the worst example. What exactly are they trying to achieve? They are not in a relegation battle and are very unlikely to break into the top 6/7 so a Europa League run should be seen as a fantastic opportunity. Instead they play the kids and get beat

The West Ham scenario was beyond ridiculous. Why not go out the first qualifier rather than the 6th game if that was your intention all along?

And I don't need to tell you I'm 100% with you on the Europa. It's disgraceful how clubs here treat it. And with the carrot of not only a Champions League place, but an automatic group placing for the winners now; it makes it even more annoying.
 
Yeah, it's not where you want to be, but it doesn't mean it's rubbish. Especially if you get through the Kos. Bear in mind that the co-efficients are important, especially if you do ever return to the CL ( now is the season by the way, guardiola will leave next season, and there is every chance he will end up is Manchester, probabaly United as City are league favourites). Real chance of a euro trophy, which of course would put you in the CL anyway.

Absolutely. People just don't realise how important the co-efficients are.

When we do return to the Champions League, we'll be down in pot 3 at least. Which guarantees at least 2 real good teams. The longer you're out, and even worse out of Europe all together/ go out early in a European season, the harder that gets hit. 2005, we were the top coefficient in Europe. 10 years later of poor performances/ none European seasons, we're down in what, 42nd place and not even seeded for the Europa draw when Tottenham of all teams are.

NO opportunity to be in European competition should ever be sniffed at.
 
It does frustrate me how English clubs (majority) seem to undervalue the Europa League.

Yes, it is not the top european competition but it is still a european trophy and a hard one to win. Look at Sevilla and their continued efforts in the EL.

West Ham for me was the worst example. What exactly are they trying to achieve? They are not in a relegation battle and are very unlikely to break into the top 6/7 so a Europa League run should be seen as a fantastic opportunity. Instead they play the kids and get beat
TV revenue and prize money is **** compared to what the teams would get from the premier league and champions league plus it isn't very effective at increasing a club's overall profile and brand. That's why, the Europa league is a hindrance for the top 8. The West Ham situation seems odd, however if you look at the effects of the Europa league of lower teams, it's devastating and some teams have been relegated after playing it the same season.
 
TV revenue and prize money is **** compared to what the teams would get from the premier league and champions league plus it isn't very effective at increasing a club's overall profile and brand. That's why, the Europa league is a hindrance for the top 8. The West Ham situation seems odd, however if you look at the effects of the Europa league of lower teams, it's devastating and some teams have been relegated after playing it the same season.

Those to me are just tired, lame excuses that only prevail in England.

If the Europa League is SUCH a drain on squads, why does it not happen with clubs with even less resources in major European Countries? How can Spanish, Italian and German clubs cope with midweek and weekend games comfortably? And that get's even more ridiculous when clubs complain about Sunday league games being harder and throwing everything out. You're still getting the same duration between games. Just moved to a different darn day.

Which then leads to the Europa being a hindrance to the clubs in the top half of the table. It now carries not only a place in the following seasons Champions League, but an automatic place in the groups. When you have, let's face it, 5 clubs maximum fighting it out now most every season for the Champions League riches through the PL, with 1 of the big boys missing out season on season; what MORE of an incentive is there than to win the Europa to get that?

The only reason it's viewed as it is in England is because we have clubs that for some reason continually disrespect a great tournament down to the financial side being minuscule compared to the Champions League. Completely forgetting all the other great benefits it potentially affords in the process.
 
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Those to me are just tired, lame excuses that only prevail in England.

If the Europa League is SUCH a drain on squads, why does it not happen with clubs with even less resources in major European Countries? How can Spanish, Italian and German clubs cope with midweek and weekend games comfortably? And that get's even more ridiculous when clubs complain about Sunday league games being harder and throwing everything out. You're still getting the same duration between games. Just moved to a different darn day.

Which then leads to the Europa being a hindrance to the clubs in the top half of the table. It now carries not only a place in the following seasons Champions League, but an automatic place in the groups. When you have, let's face it, 5 clubs maximum fighting it out now lost every season for the Champions League riches through the PL, with 1 of the big boys missing out season on season; what MORE of an incentive is there than to win the Europa to get that?

The only reason it's viewed as it is in England is because we have clubs that for some reason continually disrespect a great tournament down to the financial side being minuscule compared to the Champions League. Completely forgetting all the other great benefits it potentially affords in the process.
Firstly, teams from other leagues do not possess the huge resources of premier league clubs, meaning that the Europa league is viable. In Italy, Spain and Germany their respective football associations move dates of games to give larger gaps between league and continental competitions, as well as having a winter break. In England, you could play Thursday night, as well as Saturday (2 days later), while in Spain their FA would allow it to be played on a Sunday or Monday night.

Firstly, the Europa league is a knockout competition and it is very risky to bank champions league hopes on it. Should you bank on it and fail, you could lose out on tens of millions of pounds by finishing in a lower league position.
 
top 10 in the world hahahaah it just keeps getting better and better

Yes, Ramos has a mistake in him but I'd feel a lot more comfortable with Ramos at the back than Koscielny (There's a reason Ramos has won so much). However I don't think Kompany's got a mistake in him, he was poor last season but equally City in general were poor and the same can be said for Hummels at Dortmund. Also considering Mascherano's not naturally a CB I think he does a brilliant job for Barcelona, of course he can be mismatched, he's 5'7"/5'8" but there's no denying his ability.

Perhaps Koscielny's underrated but you said he was "definitely" in the top ten and IMO he's certainly not. As I've said he's good, not great and certainly not "world-class" IMO.

Im just saying Kos is not world class. He is a good defender and is underrated by most rival fans but the term 'world class' is thrown around stupidly nowadays

It doesn't surprise me when Damola3 says it, he is possibly the most biased/deluded fan i've seen on here but struggling to see how he can be classed as one of the world's best
Laurent Koscielny: Unheralded defender is Arsenal's key player | Football News | Sky Sports
Looking at it from a reasonable point of view, none of my claims have been unreasonable. Looking at the record with an without Koscielny proves a point.
View attachment 232232

Below are the CA of the top 15 central defenders in FM by CA. By that, Koscielny would be 13th best in the world and very comparable to other top defenders. Even by looking at him FM stats, he's pretty much the perfect defender.

Spoilers - Top 15 Central Defender CA
CA
Jerome Boateng - 173
Thiago Silva - 172
Sergio Ramos - 171
Mats Hummels -170
Vincent Kompany - 168
Pepe - 164
Mehdi Benatia - 163
Diego Godin - 163
John Terry - 161
Gerard Pique - 161
Andrea Barzagli - 161
Giorgio Chiellini - 159
Laurent Koscielny - 158
Per Mertesacker - 157
Nicolas Otamendi - 157




View attachment 232216 View attachment 232208
View attachment 232214
View attachment 232212

Based on this data, it would be unfair to call me deluded, although you don't have to agree with my opinion.
 
Those to me are just tired, lame excuses that only prevail in England.

If the Europa League is SUCH a drain on squads, why does it not happen with clubs with even less resources in major European Countries? How can Spanish, Italian and German clubs cope with midweek and weekend games comfortably? And that get's even more ridiculous when clubs complain about Sunday league games being harder and throwing everything out. You're still getting the same duration between games. Just moved to a different darn day.

Which then leads to the Europa being a hindrance to the clubs in the top half of the table. It now carries not only a place in the following seasons Champions League, but an automatic place in the groups. When you have, let's face it, 5 clubs maximum fighting it out now most every season for the Champions League riches through the PL, with 1 of the big boys missing out season on season; what MORE of an incentive is there than to win the Europa to get that?

The only reason it's viewed as it is in England is because we have clubs that for some reason continually disrespect a great tournament down to the financial side being minuscule compared to the Champions League. Completely forgetting all the other great benefits it potentially affords in the process.

You sir, are spot on!
 
Lallana out for 3-4 weeks.

I do feel sorry for him because despite an underwhelming start to the season, every time he has shown a bit of match fitness and improved performance he has got injured again.

It could actually suit Liverpool better tonight without Lallana playing, but you never wish a player injuries regardless
 
Lallana out for 3-4 weeks.

I do feel sorry for him because despite an underwhelming start to the season, every time he has shown a bit of match fitness and improved performance he has got injured again.

It could actually suit Liverpool better tonight without Lallana playing, but you never wish a player injuries regardless
How would a player being injured suit a team? While I understand he may not have started, it's hardly good news.
 
How would a player being injured suit a team? While I understand he may not have started, it's hardly good news.

Thata because he has had a poor start to the season. He holds onto the ball for too long we need a quicker tempo in the final third and he slows the ball down. Good player just not suited to lfc.
 
Thata because he has had a poor start to the season. He holds onto the ball for too long we need a quicker tempo in the final third and he slows the ball down. Good player just not suited to lfc.
If he isn't good enough to start, Brendan wouldn't pick him. He's best qualified to pick the team tbh.
 
If he isn't good enough to start, Brendan wouldn't pick him. He's best qualified to pick the team tbh.

Or maybe he is under pressure to play his 25 mill signing despite it not working into the teams favour. He may be the most qualified but from the time brendan been with us weve seen say players being played out of position, playing midfielders at centre half and trying to shoehorn non-dm players into the dm position. Lets just leave it at that.
 
Or maybe he is under pressure to play his 25 mill signing despite it not working into the teams favour. He may be the most qualified but from the time brendan been with us weve seen say players being played out of position, playing midfielders at centre half and trying to shoehorn non-dm players into the dm position. Lets just leave it at that.
In my opinion, Liverpool have got to stop buying so many average players. The only signing that's improved the first team is Clyne. Milner, Ings, Gomez, Bogdan and Benteke have all increased depth, however the first team isn't that improved. BR screwed up the Sterling contract situation, however after selling him, Liverpool should have left it in the kitty to offer big money to a champions league quality attacker. Liverpool aren't signing a top player based on future prospects due to many top European clubs having money, however if Liverpool payed over the market rate for a player, you might actually have improved. One example is Alexis. You may had enough had a better chance if he was offered 200k+ per week.
 
How would a player being injured suit a team? While I understand he may not have started, it's hardly good news.

I never said it was good news. But due to his poor start to the season it may be better changing things and had he not been injured I think he would have started
 
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