The Liverpool Thread

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Luis Suarez was not your manager.

Yeah and lets not forget why you guys ACTUALLY came close to winning it...

Hilarious. This is the perfect example of a manager not getting credit because of his other failings

Suarez wasn't Liverpool, Liverpool as a team were fantastic and Rodgers was the man in charge to oversee it, whether people like it or not. The fact Liverpool had a better winning percentage WITHOUT Luis Suarez AND the fact he missed quite a few games in that season seems forgotten

Of course he was the star man, he is an unbelievable footballer - But it's like saying Pep deserves little credit because of Messi, or Mourinho because of Ronaldo/other star men in his winning teams.

What about all the times Steven Gerrard rescued Liverpool? Does that mean the manager in charge at the time deserved little to no credit?

Rodgers' time may be up, and he is making poor decisions/mistakes - But that season was the best i have witnessed being a Liverpool fan and Brendan Rodgers was in charge of that
 
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Hilarious. This is the perfect example of a manager not getting credit because of his other failings

Suarez wasn't Liverpool, Liverpool as a team were fantastic and Rodgers was the man in charge to oversee it, whether people like it or not. The fact Liverpool had a better winning percentage WITHOUT Luis Suarez AND the fact he missed quite a few games in that season seems forgotten

Of course he was the star man, he is an unbelievable footballer - But it's like saying Pep deserves little credit because of Messi, or Mourinho because of Ronaldo/other star men in his winning teams.

What about all the times Steven Gerrard rescued Liverpool? Does that mean the manager in charge at the time deserved little to no credit?

Rodgers' time may be up, and he is making poor decisions/mistakes - But that season was the best i have witnessed being a Liverpool fan and Brendan Rodgers was in charge of that
Mate I respect your opinions but that season was jekyll and hyde at its finest. Up until december we were utter wank as per usual with every season rodgers has been in charge, we were relying on daniels goals and moments of brilliance. We all know brendans so called philosophy is one uptop and slow patient buildup. However to accomodate suarez he had to go two up top or sometimes suarez wide right this meant a high pressure bielsa type system that was so effective however it requires high levels of fitness which is why it is difficult to maintain for 90mins. I mean kudos too rodgers for using the system but this is were it all goes wrong. Why does he feel the need to change something that works and go back to his rubbish pedestrian, square pegs in round holes. His foot in mouth syndrome with the press. I wont even go into the how bad the defence has become under his leadership. Truth be told if woy wasnt so god **** awful rodgers would take the mantle for the worse manager we have ever had.
 
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Back to this tired discussion again. I think Scouse made an excellent post a few pages back saying how that team was literally centered around an incredibly motivated Suarez and without him, it wouldn't have come anywhere close to winning the title
 
James Milner backs under-fire Liverpool boss Brendan Rodgers to turn their season around - Mirror Online

When things are going well, it gets blown out of context and the same when it’s bad.

Hard to argue with that, to be fair. When it's going good, we're the best team in the world with the best fans in the world. When it's going bad, we have the worst manager in the world and the worst team in the world. This sense of exaggeration is something I believe that simply is reflected by the passion of fans combined with their lack of objectivity, patience and rationality. At Liverpool this is amplified by the notion that because we were once the best team in the world, we should always be the best team in the world. Maybe the attitude isn't all wrong, but it certainly doesn't reflect the reality.


I’ve been really impressed with the manager. Preparation is second to none. We go into every game with a game plan.

This, on the other hand, I just can't grasp even when trying. What the actual **** was our game plan against West Ham and Man United? To lose? Well, it was certainly carried out with precision.
 
Liverpool FC boss Rodgers: I'll overcome "frenzy" to get me the sack - Liverpool Echo

It didn’t [win the league] but nobody even expected us to be near the top four. I know how to manage top players and build and manage an exciting group, but when you lose that or those players are not available and you have to piece it together, that takes time. Then all the good work gets forgotten. That’s how it works.

I think I can actually agree with this. The way I see it, Rodgers unwillingly agreed to the transfer committee implementation upon his arrival. He rejected the idea of working under a DoF, because he wanted a hands-on approach - he wanted control. There was just no way he was gonna convince FSG to give him - a youth as far as managers go, without any silverware to show to - complete control of transfer, academy, scouting etc. So he agreed to a compromise; he'd work together with a transfer committee.

This committee has been ****, let's face it. You can argue that they've had a higher success rate when it comes to signings than "Rodgers signings", I would argue that myself. But still, it doesn't change the fact that it has resulted in a number of people all pulling in different directions, with no one getting their way. There've been compromises along the way from the start. Additionally, it's hard to blame Rodgers for Suarez leaving, or Sterling being sold. He has constantly had to replace key players, and in that process he's always had to go through the transfer committee.

I'm not saying Rodgers is not to blame, I still don't think he's the right man. But some simple reflection on the matter will undoubtedly reveal nuances that you'll ignore if you're stuck in a black and white frame. Yes, he's made some poor signings. He's played people out of position again and again and again. He's done lots wrong, but not everything is his fault. Which is, probably, exactly why the debate now is whether it's simply a managerial problem or a strategical one. In my opinion, it's both. Maybe another manager would be able to achieve some success with this system, but it would always be limited. There needs to be a change of strategy as far as recruitment and transfers go. That's not something that will get fixed simply by appointing a new manager.
 
Hilarious. This is the perfect example of a manager not getting credit because of his other failings

Suarez wasn't Liverpool, Liverpool as a team were fantastic and Rodgers was the man in charge to oversee it, whether people like it or not. The fact Liverpool had a better winning percentage WITHOUT Luis Suarez AND the fact he missed quite a few games in that season seems forgotten

Of course he was the star man, he is an unbelievable footballer - But it's like saying Pep deserves little credit because of Messi, or Mourinho because of Ronaldo/other star men in his winning teams.

What about all the times Steven Gerrard rescued Liverpool? Does that mean the manager in charge at the time deserved little to no credit?

Rodgers' time may be up, and he is making poor decisions/mistakes - But that season was the best i have witnessed being a Liverpool fan and Brendan Rodgers was in charge of that

I kept reading until the bit about Barca. Whether Messi plays or not they will win all if not most. The difference between us with Suarez and since he left - it's ridiculous.

Suarez was outstanding for us. But it was errors in other areas that cost us the title. Our defending was shocking and we couldn't see out games.

We had to out-score the opponent to win. Sounds obvious - I know. But we conceded far too many goals.
 
The fact Liverpool had a better winning percentage WITHOUT Luis Suarez AND the fact he missed quite a few games in that season seems forgotten

You're right, its forgotten, and rightfully so. While originally you had better success without Suarez for bunch of games, you're without him for over a year, and - shocker - you're ****.

I rest my case.

This committee has been ****, let's face it. You can argue that they've had a higher success rate when it comes to signings than "Rodgers signings", I would argue that myself. But still, it doesn't change the fact that it has resulted in a number of people all pulling in different directions, with no one getting their way. There've been compromises along the way from the start. Additionally, it's hard to blame Rodgers for Suarez leaving, or Sterling being sold. He has constantly had to replace key players, and in that process he's always had to go through the transfer committee.

I beg to differ. Committee isn't even that much of a big deal. Just how different is it from how it usually works in most clubs, exactly? Manager identifies the type of player, scouting dept finds 20 of them, manager takes 5 names off the top and needs to sell the idea to business people. Sure, they don't actually vote on stuff and ****, but its not actually THAT different of a process to expect it to yield drastically worse results.

Liverpool's problem right now is they can't secure targets. Its simple as that.

So how do you fix that? You can't offer people money, you already have that and evidently its not working. You can't offer them trophies, since that's not happening any time soon. So what's left? Apparently club had Gerrard texting transfer targets and trying to convince them. Not bad idea, throw a legend of football as a bait. But who's gonna do that now? ******* Henderson?

You're out of moves here. The only thing you can do, literally the only thing, is to have a high-profile manager. Someone people will trip over to play for, hoping he will teleport them into stardom. Rodger's not it, and he will never be it, the way things are going. No young player will want to risk his career, signing 5-year contracts and commiting himself to what's shaping up to be a decade of mediocrity. They won't sign up for a project they have no faith for.
 
Yeah I honestly don't get the whole deal about the committee now that I think about it. It's basically a shiny name for a process that occurs at every club

Take Chelsea for instance. You would have to be stupid to think Mourinho has full control over transfers. He informs the scouting department about the type of player he is looking for. Emelano, the DOF, come back to him with 15-20 players that tick all the boxes and together they pick them in order of preference. Then they probably have to sell the idea to Marina Granovosia, the CEO, who then gives the final go-ahead if the financials are sound only after which Roman Ambramovich loosens the purse strings

This doesn't sound all that different from what Liverpool do. Transfers are always a collaborative effort between 3-4 people. No manager is given unilateral control
 
What I suspect could be the problem at Liverpool is how skewed the balance of power is between the committee and Rodgers. It's very possible the committee is able to thrust signings on the manager without him agreeing whereas at other clubs, even if everyone wants a player, they won't get him if the manager says no
 
Yes tyton they wont sign up for 5 years to be loaned out for the 5 yrs like whats mostly happening

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Mate I respect your opinions but that season was jekyll and hyde at its finest. Up until december we were utter wank as per usual with every season rodgers has been in charge, we were relying on daniels goals and moments of brilliance. We all know brendans so called philosophy is one uptop and slow patient buildup. However to accomodate suarez he had to go two up top or sometimes suarez wide right this meant a high pressure bielsa type system that was so effective however it requires high levels of fitness which is why it is difficult to maintain for 90mins. I mean kudos too rodgers for using the system but this is were it all goes wrong. Why does he feel the need to change something that works and go back to his rubbish pedestrian, square pegs in round holes. His foot in mouth syndrome with the press. I wont even go into the how bad the defence has become under his leadership. Truth be told if woy wasnt so god **** awful rodgers would take the mantle for the worse manager we have ever had.

I agree with nearly everything you have said - but the worst manager ever apart from Woy? Come onnnnn!

I kept reading until the bit about Barca. Whether Messi plays or not they will win all if not most. The difference between us with Suarez and since he left - it's ridiculous.

Suarez was outstanding for us. But it was errors in other areas that cost us the title. Our defending was shocking and we couldn't see out games.

We had to out-score the opponent to win. Sounds obvious - I know. But we conceded far too many goals.

Dont get me wrong, I am not comparing us to Barca, but it just annoys me that managers get all the fault when things go wrong and little praise when it goes right
 

He's not only new, but the vice captain. The very last thing he's going to do is not back the manager.

Although it would be nice if he'd concentrate on his on game instead of superfluous talk to the media being as he's not warranted a place in the side at all thus far. It makes one wonder whether he fit at City with top class players around him where he could do the donkey work and chip in production wise; where as when the emphasis is on him to be one of the main men he's looked lost and pretty darn poor at Anfield.


How about you shut everyone up with performances and results instead of blaming everyone else and harping back to your one good season (which had FAR more to do with one player having a career year than anything else) alongside 2 and a bit **** poor ones?

Man does this guy have a convoluted opinion of himself for someone that has achieved exactly NOTHING in the game.

..... I beg to differ. Committee isn't even that much of a big deal. Just how different is it from how it usually works in most clubs, exactly? Manager identifies the type of player, scouting dept finds 20 of them, manager takes 5 names off the top and needs to sell the idea to business people. Sure, they don't actually vote on stuff and ****, but its not actually THAT different of a process to expect it to yield drastically worse results.

In principle. But more often than not, he's apparently been left to pick (they claim nobody is ultimately signed without his say so) from a shortlist that doesn't include his original targets. By all accounts he's gotten FAR more transfers than not railroaded onto him rather than the players he actually wanted. But it's hard to really know anything for sure as there's been absolutely no transparency from the club on this at all. Even beat guys like Barrett (very approachable guy. In person or via whatever form of media) will admit their only getting part sides of whatever either side divulges.

When non-football men like Ayre are at the forefront of deciding the players given to the manager outside of what he wants, then you have BIG problems.

That said, he knackered things up for himself the first window (when he was in full control) with the money he blew. That on top of the big money failures Kenny had gone through was really the catalyst for FSG to step in with the ridiculous committee.

Liverpool's problem right now is they can't secure targets. Its simple as that.

They've secured their targets. The problem has been the standard and price bracket of player they've been targeting.

FSG are slowly learning that their version of money ball just does not fly at the top end of modern day football.

Rodger's not it, and he will never be it, the way things are going. No young player will want to risk his career, signing 5-year contracts and commiting himself to what's shaping up to be a decade of mediocrity. They won't sign up for a project they have no faith for.

That was another of the major problems with Benitez and his megalomaniac want for control over EVERYTHING at the football club. The way he sat in on contracts and readily handed out ludicrous 5 year deals for ridiculous amounts of money. That then left us with hefty guaranteed contracts on sub-standard players we couldn't shift as they refused to take a pay cut and we wanted a decent slice of the initial fee back. So we had to let contracts run right down before they left on frees to great financial expense to ourselves.

​**** no to lengthy deals like that again for new signings thank you.

Yeah I honestly don't get the whole deal about the committee now that I think about it. It's basically a shiny name for a process that occurs at every club ..... l

What I suspect could be the problem at Liverpool is how skewed the balance of power is between the committee and Rodgers. It's very possible the committee is able to thrust signings on the manager without him agreeing whereas at other clubs, even if everyone wants a player, they won't get him if the manager says no

There you go. That's one of the major problems that differs from most all other English clubs and makes FSG's structure wholly flawed.

All that said, he's fully accepted these conditions and has made a **** poor attempt at making the players he's been given fit. A great coach will adapt his system to fit the pieces he has at his disposal until such time as he can get the pieces to fit what he ultimately wants to do. But Brendan is FAR too arrogant and stubborn to do that and only slightly changes when it's absolutely forced on him. (And then massages his ego by putting it out there how he's agonised over the problems and come up with a brilliant new solution.).

The whole upper management structure at Anfield is wrong and FSG appear to be finally admitting that. Not least in everything to do with player acquisitions. And it has hampered the manager no question. But equally he's not helped himself out with the resources at his disposal, continually mismanaging them even before game starts; so it ultimately is as much on himself as anyone else he cares to blame.
 
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I agree with nearly everything you have said - but the worst manager ever apart from Woy? Come onnnnn! .....

And a worse manager his first three and a bit years in the job at Anfield the last 56 years since Shank's pulled us out of the second division abyss would be ..... ?
 
Aye, the stories coming out last season about how Rodgers had come out with a 3-5-2 system after agonizing every night with only tea and toast for company was cringe-worthy in the extreme. No idea why he has to put out those stories when he has achieved zilch in the game
 
Yeah I honestly don't get the whole deal about the committee now that I think about it. It's basically a shiny name for a process that occurs at every club

Take Chelsea for instance. You would have to be stupid to think Mourinho has full control over transfers. He informs the scouting department about the type of player he is looking for. Emelano, the DOF, come back to him with 15-20 players that tick all the boxes and together they pick them in order of preference. Then they probably have to sell the idea to Marina Granovosia, the CEO, who then gives the final go-ahead if the financials are sound only after which Roman Ambramovich loosens the purse strings

This doesn't sound all that different from what Liverpool do. Transfers are always a collaborative effort between 3-4 people. No manager is given unilateral control

Isn't Wenger still entirely in charge of things at Arsenal? It's definitely a dying model now, if for no other reason than because relying on a single visionary to guide your business is a lot less reliable than having a board.
 
Isn't Wenger still entirely in charge of things at Arsenal? It's definitely a dying model now, if for no other reason than because relying on a single visionary to guide your business is a lot less reliable than having a board.

Now there is someone who could have done with a transfer committee thrusting a few signings onto him. I have lost count of the number of transfer windows where there was an obvious weakness in the team which Wenger failed to fill
 
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