The Liverpool Thread

[Alcaraz]

With the most important outside hire we've made since then for me and the one truly World class manager (at the time of signing) we've ever .

Delving into semantics here but it's international break of boredom so wth ... I wouldn't really say Klopp is world-class. Then again my definition of world class is someone who has won the CL and league titles in multiple top leagues or someone who has had success for a prolonged period of time in a top league

By that definition, only Pep, Mourinho and Ancelloti qualify among those still managing today. Calling Klopp world class is like calling Benitez world class. You could make an argument but it just doesn't sound right. Klopp still needs to prove his worth outside Germany and win the CL at least once for me

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Delving into semantics here but it's international break of boredom so wth ... I wouldn't really say Klopp is world-class. Then again my definition of world class is someone who has won the CL and league titles in multiple top leagues or someone who has had success for a prolonged period of time in a top league

By that definition, only Pep, Mourinho and Ancelloti qualify among those still managing today. Calling Klopp world class is like calling Benitez world class. You could make an argument but it just doesn't sound right. Klopp still needs to prove his worth outside Germany and win the CL at least once for me

Semantics indeed but that's a fair opinion. (Although I'd take issue that he's not far more highly regarded now than Rafa was a decade back. Semantics. *Smiles.).

I'd just lay good money most any team would have him in the same bracket as the other 3 if they were looking and he'd have as good a chance as those of getting whatever job. As regards England, I bet there was a lot of sinking hearts around the other 4 major players as to their questionable managerial situations going forward that a major player is off the table. And with Milan's pull to Ancelotti, that top bracket managerial group just shrunk massively.

 

[Mike.]

[h=1]Klopp faces burden of expectations that has doomed Liverpool managers[/h]

ESPN FC's Alison Bender talks to the Liverpool fans about their thoughts on the club's newly appointed manager Jurgen Klopp.
They tracked his plane across Europe with the frenzied anticipation of children following Santa's progress across the globe on December 24. Indeed, Jurgen Klopp's arrival at Anfield felt like Christmas to many Liverpool fans. The club reinforced the sense of occasion by issuing a line of merchandise devoted to the German within 24 hours of his appointment as manager.
Before Klopp has been introduced to the players, before he has selected a team, before he has won a single game in the Premier League, the 48-year-old has been granted iconic status.
Realism? Circumspection? There have been few signs of either. Merely excitement. Nowhere else in football is there such a craving, such a desire to elevate the man who picks the side to such lofty heights. If English football is enthralled with the cult of the manager, Anfield is the high altar of the sect.
"A good manager can improve a team by five, maybe 10 percent," a long-time Anfield observer said. "Why do we seem to think it can be 300 percent?"
It all goes back to Bill Shankly, of course. The Scot's messianic qualities transformed a provincial backwater into a European powerhouse. His statue stands outside the Kop like an Old Testament prophet, arms outstretched, demanding belief, fortitude and adoration. Klopp is the sort of character who might imagine earning similar status. He may, however, find it instructive to look at the fate of Liverpool managers in the post-Shankly era. Only Bob Paisley, more than 30 years ago, left the position happily, on his own terms and free of chaos.
Joe Fagan retired at the age of 65, 30 years ago, exhausted by his two-year tenure and suffered a gruesome sendoff at Heysel. Kenny Dalglish, his successor, had his first term as manager overshadowed by tragedy, too, walking away from the job in 1991, the burden of Hillsborough too much for even someone as strong as the Scot.
If these soured exits were attributable to catastrophe, the Liverpool job has chewed up and spat out everyone since. Graeme Souness had been one of the greatest players in the club's history but he left with his reputation in tatters after three years at the helm at Anfield. Roy Evans, the last of the bootroom boys, was humiliated by the appointment of Gerard Houllier as joint manager in 1998, so resigned. Houllier won a cup treble in 2001 but suffered heart problems and almost died during a game against Leeds United later that year. He returned with talk of being "10 games from greatness." Two matches against Bayer Leverkusen were enough to end that dream and the Frenchman's spell in charge ended in 2004 amid disappointment and rancour.
Rafa Benitez came next and brought the Champions League to Anfield. When the club was sold three years after he arrived, he found himself embroiled in an exhausting civil war that ground him down. When he was sacked in 2010, he was a shadow of the manager that arrived on Merseyside.
Houllier and Benitez brought trophies and glory to Anfield. By the time they were sacked, some sections of the support were treating them as if they'd overseen relegation.
Roy Hodgson was in charge when Fenway Sports Group (FSG) bought Liverpool. He did not last long. He was fired the next January, bewildered and confused. He had been given an impossible job. Next came Dalglish again. He won the League Cup but FSG wanted more. Brendan Rodgers replaced him three years ago. The Northern Irishman's image was shinier than any trophy. Now it has been tarnished.

German football correspondent Raphael Honigstein gives his insight on Jurgen Klopp's first Liverpool press conference, having covered him for so many years when he managed Borussia Dortmund.
Over the past few weeks, Liverpool fans have been deleting the Photoshopped images of Shankly bestowing his approval on Rodgers that rattled around the internet just 18 months ago. Banners featuring the recently sacked manager's face have been folded up and stored away. The Rodgers "Boss" T-shirts once so visible around Anfield are now used for cleaning windows and cars. Klopp will hope that the merchandise bearing his image will not become so embarrassing so quickly.
The desire for a saviour is powerful and dangerous. The flip side of so much hope invested in Klopp is that it gives the new manager little room for maneuver. Unrealistic belief fosters overreaction when the desired standards are not reached. And the level of anger -- at least on social media -- from Liverpool fans is breathtakingly quick to arouse and brutal in its fury.
Klopp is the best appointment Liverpool could have made. That is a significant step forward from 2012 when they engaged Rodgers. Those expecting the next Shankly need to back off and give the new man some breathing space to develop a way forward, though. Instant success is unlikely.
They should also remember how Shankly left Liverpool: in an unexplained and premature resignation that he lived to regret. He felt estranged from the club and more welcome at Everton.

 

[Alcaraz]

Semantics indeed but that's a fair opinion. (Although I'd take issue that he's not far more highly regarded now than Rafa was a decade back. Semantics. *Smiles.).

I'd just lay good money most any team would have him in the same bracket as the other 3 if they were looking and he'd have as good a chance as those of getting whatever job. As regards England, I bet there was a lot of sinking hearts around the other 4 major players as to their questionable managerial situations going forward that a major player is off the table. And with Milan's pull to Ancelotti, that top bracket managerial group just shrunk massively.

Sorry but I just don't see any team in the right frame of mind actually picking Klopp over Pep/Ancelloti. Perhaps over Mourinho sure but that would be completely for non-footballing reasons with Jose being a combustible character. In short, all 3 of Pep, Ancelloti and Mourinho have achieved far more in the game than Klopp at the moment and are at the top of the pile which you would probably describe as world-class. Klopp in the tier below with the likes of Simeone etc.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Looking forward to 'The Normal One' changing that opinion Alcaraz.

 

[Mike.]

Sorry but I just don't see any team in the right frame of mind actually picking Klopp over Pep/Ancelloti. Perhaps over Mourinho sure but that would be completely for non-footballing reasons with Jose being a combustible character. In short, all 3 of Pep, Ancelloti and Mourinho have achieved far more in the game than Klopp at the moment and are at the top of the pile which you would probably describe as world-class. Klopp in the tier below with the likes of Simeone etc.

If you are talking purely football then, probably not no. That said, Ancellotti is better in the CL than he is in the league.

Whatever one classes Klopp, he is not in the same pantheon that houses those three, and the likes of Ferguson before he retired.

 

[Tyton]

Why not? Pep, Carlo and Jose are proven at extracting success out of an already godlike squad. Klopp has proven success at building squads. Those are completely different skillsets, and they don't necessarily go well with each other. There's a reason why United went with Van Gaal even though they can get virtually anybody.

 

[Mike.]

Why not? Pep, Carlo and Jose are proven at extracting success out of an already godlike squad. Klopp has proven success at building squads. Those are completely different skillsets, and they don't necessarily go well with each other. There's a reason why United went with Van Gaal even though they can get virtually anybody.

I'm talking about what has been achieved. Not saying Klopp won't one day walk in there

 

[ICYUNVME]

If you are talking purely football then, probably not no. That said, Ancellotti is better in the CL than he is in the league.

Whatever one classes Klopp, he is not in the same pantheon that houses those three, and the likes of Ferguson before he retired.

Ferguson is in a completely different league to the 5 mentioned above imo. Mourinho/Pep slightly behind and Ancelotti behind them simply for longevity in success. If Simeone and Klopp continue in the same vein for around 3-7 years (that would include winning things) then I would probably put them ahead/on par with Ancelotti as I think they're footballing outlook is probably better.

The only people who could challenge Ferguson in world football atm (if we compare them at the end of their respective careers) would be Mou/Pep&Simeone. Klopp just hasn't shown enough though he has yet to manage a team anywhere near the quality the others have (granted Fergie built his) So that could all change if he builds Liverpool/moves to an elite team and that 'upscales' his credentials as it were. As I imagine him managing a team like Real Madrid would yield better results than teams like BD or LFC. Not selling his best players would be a nice start.

 

[ICYUNVME]

Why not? Pep, Carlo and Jose are proven at extracting success out of an already godlike squad. Klopp has proven success at building squads. Those are completely different skillsets, and they don't necessarily go well with each other. There's a reason why United went with Van Gaal even though they can get virtually anybody.

In all fairness the Chelsea team Jose took over were pretty ****. He did have loads of money to build with, but so did Pep etc.

 

[Tyton]

In all fairness the Chelsea team Jose took over were pretty ****. He did have loads of money to build with, but so did Pep etc.

Lolwut? The previous season they finished 2nd in the league, and in Champions League they made it to semis. Ranieri put in all the groundwork for Mourinho, just like Mancini did later in Inter. Its just that, like I've said, building a squad and extracting success from a squad is a different skillset, and only Ferguson was really world-class at doing both.

 

[Alcaraz]

Lolwut? The previous season they finished 2nd in the league, and in Champions League they made it to semis. Ranieri put in all the groundwork for Mourinho, just like Mancini did later in Inter. Its just that, like I've said, building a squad and extracting success from a squad is a different skillset, and only Ferguson was really world-class at doing both.

You are right but it also has to he said that Jose took Raineri's team to another level entirely. They broke an absurd amount of records on the way such as conceding 10-11 goals the entire season which is quite laughable when you compare it to our current defensive problems but I digress. Same with Real Madrid when they scored record goals and made it to CL Demi's multiple times when they were forever getting knocked out in quarters

I am not sure this will be classed as building a team 100% but Mourinho was an expert and elevating good teams to amazing teams

 

[Alcaraz]

If you are talking purely football then, probably not no. That said, Ancellotti is better in the CL than he is in the league.

Whatever one classes Klopp, he is not in the same pantheon that houses those three, and the likes of Ferguson before he retired.

Indeed, Klopp is a great manager but he is simply a level below multiple league and CL winners in Pep/Mourinho/Ancelloti. I think of him as a lot like Simeone. Built a great squad at a decent sized club that had it moment in the sun but will always remain in the shadow of larger counterparts in the league due to disparity in resources etc.

Klopp still has some way to go before he can enter the top tier of managers

 

[ICYUNVME]

Lolwut? The previous season they finished 2nd in the league, and in Champions League they made it to semis. Ranieri put in all the groundwork for Mourinho, just like Mancini did later in Inter. Its just that, like I've said, building a squad and extracting success from a squad is a different skillset, and only Ferguson was really world-class at doing both.

Woops, I mixed up Ranieri's last season with Mou's first.

But still, that team was no where near what it was the year after.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Woops, I mixed up Ranieri's last season with Mou's first.

But still, that team was no where near what it was the year after.

Would of been interesting to see. Chelsea were a disgrace to force Ranieri to work under the Jose cloud IMHO. He was brilliant and made a joke of it more often than not. But **** poor for the fella' to have to deal with.

Would of been interesting to see if he'd of ended the title drought. He certainly spent big on the backbone of that first title winning side. His last signing was Cech IIRC who would of been a major difference right there.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Away from 'r Jurgie, loved reading Xavi over the weekend saying he'd of loved the opportunity to play in England and if he could of, he'd of played for L'pool or his favourite Utd.

First one of the most sought after managers on the Planet. Now one of the greatest players of his generation.

Not bad for a 'small' club huh? .

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Applying to be manager.
View attachment 962310

If that's a genuine reply it's pretty darn funny.

 

[ImAddicted]

Applying to be manager.
View attachment 962310

If this is real, it is absolutely brilliant!

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

 

[mersk]

Away from 'r Jurgie, loved reading Xavi over the weekend saying he'd of loved the opportunity to play in England and if he could of, he'd of played for L'pool or his favourite Utd.

View attachment 220787

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

View attachment 962497

XD.Don't make me start writing like I talk or else nobody will understand and the thread will go to **** quicker than a Mingolet ****-up ha ha.

Is it Sat'day already? The wait is KILLING me here. Honestly believe 'The Normal One' is THE ONE to take us back to where we so crave to be and can't wait to get this new era rolling. If he's not at the club he's out and about being, well, normal and appears to love the City already.

Manager + Players + (most importantly) Fans, all FULLY believing. At Anfield, that triumvirate is a VERY powerful thing indeed. The City and fanbase are bouncing off the walls in absolute euphoria like I've honestly never known. Tottenham be bouncing Sat'day. Anfield and Kazan next Thursday be absolutely f-ing ROCKING!

Also LOVING the Opus 'Live is Life' song for him bouncing round twitter. REALLY hope that takes off. That would be awesome to sing and dance to on the Kop.