The Liverpool Thread

[Scouseinthehouse]

u wat m8? Half of those 5 years he was managing national side. Scoring World Cup 3rd place in the process, missing the final on pens.

Like most Utd fans I know, which is quite a few living the North West, I've just never really got the Van Gaal thing. Don't get me wrong. he's a good to very good manager; but I've never thought of him as an elite name you'd want when you're looking. I get why Utd appointed him as he was probably the best available at the time. But he just never leaps out at yer.

I mean outside of that golden generation Ajax side what, 20 years ago now, has he ever done anything else in European competition? And he's been at some mighty big clubs.

This might misguidingly get construed as a slight on Utd which it isn't (and even most of their fans want him gone the end of the year); but I've honestly never gotten it with him and his dictatorial style.

 

[Mike.]

Like most Utd fans I know, which is quite a few living the North West, I've just never really got the Van Gaal thing. Don't get me wrong. he's a good to very good manager; but I've never thought of him as an elite name you'd want when you're looking. I get why Utd appointed him as he was probably the best available at the time. But he just never leaps out at yer.

I mean outside of that golden generation Ajax side what, 20 years ago now, has he ever done anything else in European competition? And he's been at some mighty big clubs.

This might misguidingly get construed as a slight on Utd which it isn't (and even most of their fans want him gone the end of the year); but I've honestly never gotten it with him and his dictatorial style.

I think you are missing out on a lot of what LVG did

 

[Mike.]

u wat m8? Half of those 5 years he was managing national side. Scoring World Cup 3rd place in the process, missing the final on pens.

LVG built foundations where ever he managed. These foundations are apparent today, with Bayern and Barca hugely benefitting. Even his detractors admit that. Germany and Spain benefitted massively with the players he helped bring through.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

I think you are missing out on a lot of what LVG did

Meh, maybe I'm being a tad harsh on him and he's by no means a poor manger.

Just never jumped out to me as a name you'd ideally want when I think of the top managers/ coaches the past two decades or so.

I know you guys are only a few points off the top the league and top the European group (crisis what crisis and all that); but performances should be far better two years in with what he has at his disposal and what he's gone through for me.

The key will be your next move with the potential other big clubs scrambling. Completely agree with you it would be to Utd's detriment not to be seriously pushing for Pep.

 

[Tyton]

Like most Utd fans I know, which is quite a few living the North West, I've just never really got the Van Gaal thing. Don't get me wrong. he's a good to very good manager; but I've never thought of him as an elite name you'd want when you're looking. I get why Utd appointed him as he was probably the best available at the time. But he just never leaps out at yer.

I mean outside of that golden generation Ajax side what, 20 years ago now, has he ever done anything else in European competition? And he's been at some mighty big clubs.

This might misguidingly get construed as a slight on Utd which it isn't (and even most of their fans want him gone the end of the year); but I've honestly never gotten it with him and his dictatorial style.

I don't think you fully appreciate the magnitude of an achievement he pulled of with Ajax. The average age of that team was probably like 22 or something. He didn't "just" win European Cup. He won it with a bunch of green teenagers. Not only that, they didn't just luck out, they were crushing the opposition. What he did with that team, I can only describe as batshit crazy. And when you do something batshit crazy, the only way you can go is down.

But, he did continue to win stuff everywhere he went. And he's the real brain behind Bayern's recent domination.

Its like with Istanbul game. European Cup is nice, but you can't fully appreciate just how insane it was, if you don't understand the context. And the context is, Milan had more superstars just in the backline, than you had in the entire squad.

 

[Dynamo_ZahnZee]

LVG is the managerial equivalent of a Center Back: you'll never see his name on the score sheet but nothing could have been won without their hard work.

I've always said to friends, LVG will win United nothing while he's there, but he'll be why they win things in a few years time.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

I don't think you fully appreciate the magnitude of an achievement he pulled of with Ajax. The average age of that team was probably like 22 or something. He didn't "just" win European Cup. He won it with a bunch of green teenagers. Not only that, they didn't just luck out, they were crushing the opposition. What he did with that team, I can only describe as batshit crazy. And when you do something batshit crazy, the only way you can go is down......

To be fair, in the same way you can make a genuine argument for others benefiting off Van Gaal, he and Ajax ultimately did off Cruyff's stint as a coach there. He changed the whole structure (as he did with Barcelona which again Van Gaal continued); and set the style of play they both won the European Cup with in '95 and still adhere to, to this day. Cruyff modified the Michels way and layed the groundwork for the youth that came through.

 

[Mike.]

LVG is the managerial equivalent of a Center Back: you'll never see his name on the score sheet but nothing could have been won without their hard work.

I've always said to friends, LVG will win United nothing while he's there, but he'll be why they win things in a few years time.

I suspect he will leave end of the season if he cannot come close (in title challenge way), but we will benefit in the long run from it.

LVG is the manager they should have got after Ferguson. Not on his level, but enough to steady the boat and leave them next manager in good hands, and still grab a trophy.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

I suspect he will leave end of the season if he cannot come close (in title challenge way), but we will benefit in the long run from it.

LVG is the manager they should have got after Ferguson. Not on his level, but enough to steady the boat and leave them next manager in good hands, and still grab a trophy.

I'll never understand the Moyes appointment in the same way I'll never understand FSG appointing a manager to learn his trade on the job at Liverpool Football Club.

 

[Tyton]

To be fair, in the same way you can make a genuine argument for others benefiting off Van Gaal, he and Ajax ultimately did off Cruyff's stint as a coach there. He changed the whole structure (as he did with Barcelona which again Van Gaal continued); and set the style of play they both won the European Cup with in '95 and still adhere to, to this day. Cruyff modified the Michels way and layed the groundwork for the youth that came through.

You can, and you can also make genuine argument for Klopp benefiting from Lobanovskyi inventing pressing in the USSR in the 1950s, but that would go into absurd, wouldn't it?

What sets Van Gaal apart from all these other guys, is that he's a great theoretician that actually consistently wins ****, for over 2 decades. That doesn't happen a lot, if at all. Cruyff has done **** all apart from his stint at Barca. Same with Sacchi , other than his short time in Milan.

I won't deny it starts to look as if LVG lost his touch a bit. But saying he only did one big thing in 1995, is a tad too much.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

.....
I won't deny it starts to look as if LVG lost his touch a bit. But saying he only did one big thing in 1995, is a tad too much.

Now you're getting a little bit too mischievous ha ha.

I said he'd done nothing in European competition since then. (If he has I apologise but I can't think of anything.). Which regardless what he's built or not, he's been at some big clubs with some real strong squads. That's the bench mark for the great ones.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

That was a short but pretty good discussion with different takes. Ta fellas'.

But now I need sleep as I'm totally goosed.

Told yers that Jordan Ibe kid could play a bit.

 

[Tezzz]

I am not even sure what Scouse's point is because you can see he did heavily imply that Klopp was the best manager in the league whereas I don't necessarily disagree with him completely but just find it prudent to wait until the end of the season before casting judgement considering Klopp has just arrived and has only gained success in one league whereas LVG and Jose have won in multiple leagues

Regardless of what Scouse said, he didn't say Klopp is the most successful or greatest premier league manager ever. He said he is one of the best managers in the league which, lets be honest, he is. He definitely isn't outside of the top 5 that's for sure.

 

[sunilvk7]

Now you're getting a little bit too mischievous ha ha.

I said he'd done nothing in European competition since then. (If he has I apologise but I can't think of anything.). Which regardless what he's built or not, he's been at some big clubs with some real strong squads. That's the bench mark for the great ones.

From Redcafe.

Historically he has had the following results in the champions league:

Ajax

94 / 95 - Champions

95 / 96 - Final

96 / 97 - Semi Finals

Barcelona

97 / 98 - Group Stage

98 / 99 - Group Stage

99 / 00 - Semi Finals

Bayern

09 / 10 - Final

10 / 11 - Round of 16


It's also worth noting in his return to Barcelona in 2002 - 03 at the point he got sacked he had won every game in the champions league that season, a record equalling 10 straight matches.

Excluding 2003 for obvious reasons, he has made at least the Semi-Finals in 5 out of 8 attempts and if he has made it out of the group he has gone on to make at least the Semi-Finals in 5 out of 6 attempts.

Barca were not the powerhouse they are today and Bayern didn't make it past Quarter finals since 2000-01 season which they won CL. So those 2 clubs were not power houses they are today and for sure didn't have the best of the squads.

 

[Alcaraz]

From Redcafe.



Barca were not the powerhouse they are today and Bayern didn't make it past Quarter finals since 2000-01 season which they won CL. So those 2 clubs were not power houses they are today and for sure didn't have the best of the squads.

And in 09/10 season, he could easily have won CL but both Robben and Ribery were injured for finals if I am not wrong

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

And in 09/10 season, he could easily have won CL but both Robben and Ribery were injured for finals if I am not wrong

You had me looking there out of curiosity. You are. Just Ribery through suspension.

I was mistaken. I'd neglected that final. But everything else just reforming to me that he's a good/ very good manager but not up there with the elites.

Which isn't a bad thing in itself.

 

[Tezzz]

From Redcafe.



Barca were not the powerhouse they are today and Bayern didn't make it past Quarter finals since 2000-01 season which they won CL. So those 2 clubs were not power houses they are today and for sure didn't have the best of the squads.

Sorry, I'm a bit of noobie when it comes to Van Gaal, what happened in 2003?

 

[Alcaraz]

You had me looking there out of curiosity. You are. Just Ribery through suspension.

I was mistaken. I'd neglected that final. But everything else just reforming to me that he's a good/ very good manager but not up there with the elites.

Which isn't a bad thing in itself.

Applogies but then he came up against a inspired Inter team

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Sorry, I'm a bit of noobie when it comes to Van Gaal, what happened in 2003?

Don't know about Van Gaal but we beat Utd to win another League Cup. .

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Looks like I might have a rare free evening to watch the game. Bonus for me that its a 6KO.

I shall return tomorrow to reveal my long awaited expert analysis and opinions to you all.

So Joe what do you know?