The Manchester United Thread
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Theatre of dreams
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He a good player who Mourinho wants. That's at a decent price in today's market. And offers things that none of our current squad offer. Can't honestly think of any wingers that we could go for that are realistic and offer genuine width.
Exactly this ^. Maybe T.Lemar, but he's going for like 80m and doesn't seem like Monaco want to sell
Well if we're squibbling over Inter's demands, why waste time? Either pay it or move on.
Theatre of dreams
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Yeah he's good and i would love him. But he looks to be a lot more expensive and not really a natural winger.
Theatre of dreams
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Im actually happy Ed is not bending over and trying to get us a better deal. It may take longer but that's fine by me window closes end of Aug not now. All I really care about is getting a DM/CM in atm.
I think we're going to end up paying 50m regardless.. so we're not gaining much.
But yes we badly need a DM, but it's looking unlikely, could be our downfall if we don't.
Theatre of dreams
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Dont mind paying 50. Maybe Eds just trying to get it structured and not all in one lump. Don't have any concerns about signings yet.
Scouseinthehouse
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Reminds me, this was a brilliant piece on the Mourinho DM by Delaney last week I meant to post:
Why Jose Mourinho is so desperate for the right defensive midfielder to be the base for Manchester United to play from | The Independent
Which leads into why I find this coming season SO fascinating. The different tactical approaches/ philosophies of the top managers.
The DM position is just one example. Forgetting the rest of the league who invariably sit in and defend against the top 6 regardless, there's really only Mourinho and Conte to a lesser extent left (And Rafa but as Newcastle aren't a top 6 side we'll ignore them), who are still 'old school' and rolling with that traditional approach that has worked in the main for him. Totally the polar opposite to the newer, more progressive bread like Guardiola and Klopp who just want to get as many footballers on the pitch and let them interchange and work it out for themselves. Keita being the perfect topical example. We (Liverpool) now look for all-round midfielder that are more, I guess you'd say, box-to-box. Guys that are effective both ends of the park and will be comfortable anywhere on the pitch. It's a throwback to the pre-PL years with all round midfielders like Robson and Reid and McMahon who were effective all over. Before the 'DM' term and a specific position became vogue. Real Madrid have won back-to-back Champions League by having more players in there that can beat a man as well as defend (Modrics a great example) to open things up. Rather than just winning it and then laying it off. Pep has that bizarre sounding dream to have eleven midfielders on the pitch at any one time that can play total football in any position. (Although to be fair I think he's already secretly testing this theory by having City play without a goalkeeper ......). Where as Mourinho goes the other way and sticks to his tried and trusted formula from when he won the European Cup with Porto and every stop in between.
The contrast between managers that just allow players to go out and play, and the few still going down the rigid set route who are quite prepared to make a game as ugly as it needs to get the result is a fascinating flux at the very top end. With those key games against each other invariably separating where the top clubs finish.
I don't think the PL has ever had such a diverse dichotomy of tactical approaches that have to be solved. You're having to find one way against 13 other clubs. Then a whole other against your immediate competitors. Why transfers are becoming more complex, taking longer, and costing more as you're needing the absolute cream of the crop to stay ahead and meet all these different challenges.
Gonna' be a fascinating season watching it play out.
And if my rambling was too long there, just enjoy Delaney's excellent breakdown of what's served Utd's manager so well in the key DM roles in his teams.
ninjaskill
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Real Madrid still use a defensive midfielder though, Casemiro who stays deep behind Modric and Kroos who are both very good passers who can beat players. Quite a few pundits felt that Casemiro was a key difference between the Benitez and Zidane Real Madrid sides and the success that the two teams had
Theatre of dreams
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His improvement last season has nearly taken him to the top class of DM!
Scouseinthehouse
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They do but there's been a noticeable shift away from having a two of one pure DM and a defensive minded one to more having midfielders in there that can not only win it but beat a man and open things up in so doing. If I can beat you/ dribble past you, I've not only progressed but you're now behind me and there's one less man to worry about. I win it and lay it off, it's more compact and all the bodies are in front of me to have to get through. They destroyed Juventus with the space they were creating doing just that over and over as opposed to Juve's tactics the recent CL final.
It's an interesting 'next' evolution of the game as more and more 'newer' managers take a more attacking approach and just wanting to get as many footballers who can play and create on the pitch as possible.
*Edit* This will probably sound madness but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see a team have an outfield player in nets say within the next 10 years and sacrificing a traditional 'keeper. Peps all but doing his best to do that now putting far more emphasis on keepers who are real good with their feet over anything else. We're seeing it with midfielders moving further back to all defensive positions as managers want players who can play back there so it seems the natural next step. As bizarre as it currently sounds.
Fascinating shift the way the games evolving to me against the more traditional (let's say last 10/15 years or so) tactics.
Even more so the PL as I don't think, in the main down to the absolute cream of the crop in coaching being here along with better and better players by the passing window, there's ever been such a diverse challenge at the very top level to overcome to win things than we now face.
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The funny thing is Rafa actually was the one who introduced Casemiro in the side. Zidane just went along with it and gets the credit. Pundits getting something wrong again, never seen that before.
Scouseinthehouse
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Related aside, but I don't know why Rafa always get's downplayed and people are never quick to acknowledge just what he's achieved? Which is pretty remarkable when you sit and look at it. I don't always like his brand of footie. And it's starting to become outdated to win the very top level the more the game moves forward. But he deserves far more credit than he ever gets.
But this isn't the thread to be discussing Benitez lol.
ninjaskill
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He introduced him into the side but didn't put as much faith in him as Zidane has, for example taking him out of the Clasico that they got hammered in for James Rodriguez, he played a fair amount under Benitez but Zidane plays him every match he is fit for pretty much
Pretty much, Zidane is using the same lineup that got Rafa fired. I have lots of respect for Zidane but it often seems that his biggest asset as a manager is that he can stand up to Perez without getting sacked the next morning.
I thought it was common knowledge that El Clasico squad was due to external pressure.
ninjaskill
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Don't think it will happen at the top level of a player who is say a CB or GK but wouldn't be surprised if their were some GK's at top clubs who changed to from being an outfield position to a GK relatively late on in their development 16 or 17 years old. A CM for a top club decides that he doesn't think he could cut it for them as a CM decides to give being a keeper a go does well enough saving shots and claiming crosses and can pass well
There's no point analysing Madrid's team selection in depth as you have to wonder how much input is from above and how much leeway does the manager really have.
Scouseinthehouse
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Point. That's a noticeable change at the way youth development is being viewed now too.
It's interesting how the moud of certain positions at youth level with the big clubs is changing. For instance, centre backs no longer in the Terry mould but more in a midfielder skill set mould who are comfortable on the ball that they can teach defensive traits into.
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Theatre of dreams
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James Robson
@JamesRobsonMEN
Mourinho: I asked for four players. I'm ready to go from four to three because the market is difficult. We are not ready to buy & buy & buy
James Robson
@JamesRobsonMEN
We are not a club that is ready to pay what clubs want us to pay so I am ready to go from four to three. But the market closes end of August not now
jamie jackson
@JamieJackson___
Jose: "I can imagine Man City would like to pay £25m for Walker" but this is what (£50m) Spurs asked...