Don't know about disaster... Situation is far from optimal, but it isn't solely Moyes's fault. Failure in transfer market more down to that Woodward or whoever that guy is. Also players have let him down. Still it's partly his fault, but not so much as some are trying to make of it.
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Don't know about disaster... Situation is far from optimal, but it isn't solely Moyes's fault. Failure in transfer market more down to that Woodward or whoever that guy is. Also players have let him down. Still it's partly his fault, but not so much as some are trying to make of it.
Hook, line and sinker.
what do you mean?
Again something that was also driven by everyone at United, if you think only the manager has total control over every aspect of a transfer at the club, you will be very wrong.
Theory isnt everything. The one quality mid we have is injured, this badly affects the entire shift of the side. Fellaini isnt up to speed yet. So in practice we are worse off than last year.
1) Whether you are against it or not is irrelevant. He is the manager now, like it or not. And he is going to need time.
2) Big Ron is a complete moron, we had transition periods under SAF.
3) Everton are not Manchester United. Lots of respect for them, but their demands are not even close to ours.
4) Suck it up. No one wants that but you don't avert it by panicked decisions.
5) Then you respectfully deserve the "embarrassing yourself tag", if you think that kind of reaction is what the club is built on, you are very wrong. Fans don't just support during the good times, but when things get sticky too, anything less and you are a glory hunter.
If you want him out after 15 games you deserve that tag. "we'll only support the winning manager", no mate, that doesn't fly this early, no matter how much you love the club, and how long you support it. You've basically decided to turn on him at the first hint of trouble, that's fickle at best, sorry. The club are not going to fire him, so trying to create any kind of hostile atmosphere will only hurt the club. Lets be really clear on that, you would not be helping the club.
Ferguson wasn't up for it when he arrived, he took 3 years, the club actually declined slightly initially, but he got the time and the breaks and look what we got in return. Moyes will have to do in probably less than 2 years. He hasn't even had the January window. If think you are a good fan for calling for the managers head now, think again. We need at least TWO transfer windows to get the kind of players we need.
Actually he isn't, what he is, is reactive, he needs to go from that to being an imposing one, but again we will need a much better midfield first.
So you can't see any alternative, so instead you panic early and demand that we find a new manager, complete knee jerk reaction when the season isnt even half way over. Stop overly panicking, stop being knee jerk, he isnt going anywhere so get behind him and the club. We're not Chelsea fans.
I'm being incredibly harsh here, but in classic United style this thread was in need of a Ferguson style hairdryer.
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I said he sounded like a glory-hunter because it seemed to me like that he was supporting success at the club, not the club itself. If you're going to support a club, you need to get behind a manager, even if you disagree with their appointment. The only thing fans can really do is get behind the team and manager, since ultimately that's what'll help the team the most. Sure, you can protest against Moyes and the team, but that'll do little help. Mart?nez may be doing very well at the moment, but it's only been a few months. Moyes managed to get good results consistently for years, and consistency over a long period of time is what separates good managers and lucky managers. So if you're going to use Moyes's past tenure at Everton as a way of judging him, then Mart?nez's reign as Wigan boss was far from perfect too! On the matter of transfers, you're right, Moyes did have money to spend, but it was hardly much, despite the massive amount made from sales - his highest-fee signing was Fellaini at ?15 million; his second Yakubu at ?11.25 million and third Bilyaletdinov for ?8.9million, which are hardly huge sums for a side consistently battling for Europe/once made it into the Champions League. United fans were admitting in the summer that they had a weak midfield, but now all of a sudden, it's an "we need to sign players in five different positions, our current squad is so terrible" attitude - quite a big change if you ask me!Let's not get into this again!
He plays deeper for Belgium and does it exceptionally well. Fellaini's very talented, give him time.
Oh certainly. United's business this summer was an absolute mess.
You can say what you like, but you can't tell someone else that they're sounding like a glory-hunter because they've got a different opinion from you regarding it.
Had a better team to start with, sure, but he's playing at the same kind of level Moyes was in his last few seasons without the dour reactive football. And let's not act like Moyes never had ANY money to spend ever: Rooney, Lescott, Arteta, Andy Johnson... all double figure sales in Moyes' tenure.
Well that's different. Say that United fans' opinion of the squad has dropped even more, and that'd be fair, not saying they've swung from completely positive to utterly negative in the space of a few months.
To be honest, it's far from brilliant; but it's far from a disaster too. United won the Community Shield (pretty much meaningless, I know, but hey, it's a trophy); they're still in the FA Cup and are unbeaten at the top of their Champions League group. Their record in the Premier League is not great, with six wins; four draws and five losses, but again, it's not disastrous considering they've played City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea, as well as other on-form teams such as Southampton, Everton and Newcastle.
The panic buy of Fellaini was bad business, granted, but it's not like United 'don't know what to do' with him, it's just that he's not really on-form/adapting to the system as successfully as predicted. I agree it looks like the squad is an improvement on paper, but you have to accept that the players haven't performed this season (maybe partly down to Moyes's tactics) and some are ageing (namely Ferdinand, Vidić and RVP). It's all good saying 'big clubs can have no transitions', but in practice it doesn't work - the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal and us (Liverpool) have been in transition in recent years. Everton haven't really needed a transition because of some good transfer dealings (especially Lukaku) and a good run of form, which is partly down to Mart?nez's skill but more to do with luck, unless this run continues to the end of the season. And on the matter of inspiring the squad, he can only do that if the squad's fully behind him, there's only so much a manager can do to impact their morale, but it seems like they're still shocked at the loss of Fergie, and the negativity of the fans towards Moyes hardly helps either.Mike mate, as always you try to be the voice of reason and also, I respect you cos you try to support Utd the "proper" way.
But:
True to an extent but:
1) Imho the summer transfer window was a sign of things to come with Utd/Moyes making a total mess of things going after totally unrealistic targets wasting valuable time then trying to panic buy but not managing even that and ending up with a player who we overpaid 4mil for who we dont seem to know what to do with.
2) Its one thing "being your own man" but Moyes, rather stupidly, got rid of Meulensteen, Steele etc (ie people who knew what UTD is about with experience of winning loads of trophies) and put people in their place with experience of sitting next to David Moyes and not much else! Which come to think of it, bearing in mind that Moyes has no experience in winning things was beyond suicidal and I said it at the time (btw I also thought FELLAINI would be a good purchase since the season before last ...).
3) The squad is an IMPROVEMENT from last season (Januzaj/Fellaini) at least theoretically and anyway Moyes has not managed to inspire them to play decently. I mean yes we have issues in the mf but the squad he has is much better than 9th 13 points off the top and better than he has them paying.
1. I see your point but for myself Ive never said those things. I was against his appointment and have voiced my concerns from day one and, sad to say they ve been totally justified so far.
2. Big Ron was correct. We are a big club and big clubs can have no transitions esp if that means not qualifying for the CL. Ive made my point about my fear about being superceded by other teams and quickly becoming LFC if that is allowed to happen in previous posts so wont repeat myself.
3. Transition and giving time - nice concepts. I see no transition happening with Everton who seem to be doing better without Moyes than with him!
4. Yes we are spoiled but I lived through the barren years and I have the fear of returning to them myself.
5. I came to England to watch the Everton match and was very disappointed that the only person in the stands within earshot who was utterly frustrated and against Moyes was myself ...
Oh, poor little Davey! Im sorry but once he decided to take on the job he SHOULD BE UP TO IT! This argument is no argument for Moyes imho its against him. Also, Im a UTD supporter since I was 8yo. I have to travel to England from another country to watch Utd which I do regularly. So I (and a lot of other true -not glory hunting -fans) have every right to support Utd but disagree with Moyes' continued employment for us. The more time passes the more convinced I am that by voicing our feelings we would be helping UTD by getting rid of him (before the damage done is irreversible). And I resent the "embarassing ourselves" tag.
As already noted I think that time is not something we have. But tell me, have you seen anything to suggest that with time he'll at least inspire players to show some passion on the pitch?! (I know you ll say the Leverkusen away match and thats the only ***** of hope I have). What I expected him to do at the very least was to inspire the team to react positively to going behind at OT - not ceding possession to the tune of 48%-52% and limply playing out the last half hour of matches (cf the Newcastle match).
Exactly. He's tactically clueless esp when stuff seem to go against us during matches and completely one track (point made before by yours truly so wont repeat).
I kinda see your point. Im actually not convinced that sacking him now would change anything this season but Im terrified of what will happen if we do not. My only hope is that Im wrong like I was about Fergie in the beginning against whom I even picketed in 1989 holding one end of a "Fergie Out" plackard.
I also now look out there and dont see an available and suitable candidate who would be better ...
PS: Please take no offense. None is meant. I take it as given we both love the club -after all its UTD-KIDS-WIFE in that order!
Fellaini wasn't a panic, he was targeted all summer. Why do people actually care if we overpaid ?4m for someone? I cared because it was symbolic of how much of a shambles our transfer business was. Other than that, as long as the player signs the fee is pretty irrelevant to everyone, no? Are you going to sit there at the end of the season after a player leads you to a title, "Oh he was good, but we paid ?4m too much."
Why is everyone using ageing as if it means aged? Ageing means you're approaching the point where you hit decline. I seriously doubt RVP is any worse of a player than he was last year.
Why is everyone using ageing as if it means aged? Ageing means you're approaching the point where you hit decline. I seriously doubt RVP is any worse of a player than he was last year.
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He looks about 10 years older though, getting a little grey this year.
He was passed over all summer, and then when you failed at every other target you had prioritised above him you signed him for about ten million more than he was worth in the dying seconds of deadline day. I can't think of anything that defines a panic buy MORE.
Maybe not, but if after the season's ended with you coming 6th and you say roughly the same thing, I think it would be pertinent thing to say. Besides, the point is that he cost 27-odd mil and is also playing like a baby seal in a vat of mercury.
We always wanted 2 midfielders. We'd put bids in for Fellaini long before deadline day.
If we finished 6th, I'd be more worried about other things than the ?4m that has no personal effect on me. More money coming out of the Glazer's pockets isn't the worst thing in the world.
And in a couple of short paragraphs you ve said what I struggled to put - and failed- in 5 times as much!
The problem at the moment for Moyes is that he can't really do anything. The transfer window's still a month off, and the reserves don't have any players good enough for the first team just yet (except maybe Fletcher, if he can stay fit - but even then, he probably won't be at his past level), so he can't get any new players in. If he drops players, it'll damage morale; if he doesn't drop players, then they might not play well and morale drops. Maybe it's too do with his tactics, but even if he gets them 'right', morale may affect the players' performances, and one thing which is rarely acknowledged is the fact that managers can only do so much to improve a player's confidence and morale.
Yeah, low ball bids without any real sense of urgency. You wanted Fellaini, but there was no indication that he was first or even second choice throughout the entire process.
You can't always get your first choice transfer target, though, and United had to settle for Fellaini, but he's not a bad signing in the consequences. Yes, perhaps he was signed for too much, and maybe he seemed like a bit of a 'panic buy', but they could've done much worse.
You're judging Fellaini, like you're judging Moyes, too soon. He hasn't really had a extended run of games in the team yet, and is clearly off-form at the moment. Form is temporary, class is permanent and Fellaini is a classy player.
Scotty98TR
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If you wanted Fellaini before deadline day, who didn't Moyes simply activate the release clause, or at least get a deal sorted before a few hours before the deadline...
Scotty98TR
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Leading the league in fouls for the last few years running doesnt seem particularly 'classy' to me...
Sorry, I mean class-y, not classy.