The Manchester United Thread

[Mike.]

You don't have to buy absolutely top class players to improve the team. Mandzukic, Dante were not world class players when Bayern signed them but see how they have performed for them.

If you say our scouting team and Moyes can't pick 2 CMs that are better than our midfielders then there is something clearly wrong with the system. You don't have to buy Fabregas level players, you can go for a level below them and still they will become our best CMs.

Misfiring wingers where Valencia is given all the mins without giving Nani any run of games. Nani needs games to get his confidence back and Moyes is not giving him that.

Rio is past it but we have Smalling, Jones, Evans who are all fantastic players/young players. Evra is past it and I mentioned it. We have Fabio who never got any chance at all and we waited till last min to sign Coentrao when he wanted to move all summer.

We have misfiring wingers but why is Zaha not getting any chances? I won't blame Moyes for that at all as he needs time to feel comfortable to introduce young players but not giving Nani run of games is Moyes' mistake.

Woodward also deserves blame but IMO most of the blame should be on Moyes. He just didn't trust ManUtd scouting reports and opted out of few players like Strootman, Thiago.

He didn't trust scout reports and takes the blame on that. Woodward takes the blame for allowing himself to be a caught up on Fabregas, and then b) continually low ball Everton, who didn't crumble. And our scouting team has been slacking for some time tbf (remember how no one watched Vidal?). could he have introduced nani earlier? certainly, but remember who was getting player all the time before: a certain super talented 18 year old who we were desperate not to lose.

 

[Mike.]

Exactly. We said samething when Fergie was in charge, he was blamed for not signing a CM (mostly when he didn't try to sign Dembele) even though he was a living legend. What he still did was attack and go for a win no matter what something we don't under Moyes. If people are going to use CM as excuse then you have to blame Moyes for that too, at least most of the blame.

Board letting go? They did a fantastic job for decades, they deserves to pick their time of retirement.

Sure let them go, but should be well aware the issue it would cause.

 

[sunilvk7]

He didn't trust scout reports and takes the blame on that. Woodward takes the blame for allowing himself to be a caught up on Fabregas, and then b) continually low ball Everton, who didn't crumble. And our scouting team has been slacking for some time tbf (remember how no one watched Vidal?). could he have introduced nani earlier? certainly, but remember who was getting player all the time before: a certain super talented 18 year old who we were desperate not to lose.

I'm not sure all the blame should be on woodward for Fabregas and Fellaini saga. Nani should have played ahead of Valencia IMO.

Woodward only goes after the player that Moyes gives greenlight for. At least that's how it works in ManUtd according to Fergie.

 

[Alcaraz]

I suppose the difference is that SAF was a winner

 

[Mike.]

I'm not sure all the blame should be on woodward for Fabregas and Fellaini saga. Nani should have played ahead of Valencia IMO.

Woodward only goes after the player that Moyes gives greenlight for. At least that's how it works in ManUtd according to Fergie.

Yes, but after that green light Woodward is in control of negotiations. he failed to release we were getting played by Fabregas's camp, and failed to realise that Everton were never going to sell at those prices. Woodward's negotiations were a total failure

 

[Subtle]

I suppose the difference is that SAF was a winner

Isn't it fun to watch from the other side for once?

 

[Scotty98TR]

Okay, let's just say for a minute that everything to do with transfers in the Summer were down to Woodward (Which we have no actual way of knowing, I'd just like to point out).

Moyes tactics are negative and defensive. Even with the players you have available to you right now, you should still be able to beat the likes of Newcastle and West Brom at home. But you don't get enough players forward quick enough. You try to rush it, often hitting crosses/through balls in as soon as possible. But that means players haven't got forward in time.

As an example, I remember against Newcastle Van Persie (Your best finisher) picked up the ball quite deep in Newcastle's half. He turned and played the right-winger through (Might of been Valencia, I can't remember). The right winger then ran a few metres and tried to play a low through-ball/cross into the box when only one United player was there. Van Persie didn't have time to catch up and get anywhere near the box, nor had anyone else.

And regardless of whether or not Fergie failed to strengthen CM, the fact is he won the league, 5 out of the past 7 years. You'd only just lost out on the title in the last minutes in one of the 2 years you didn't win it. He had just strolled to success last season. Clearly, he didn't need to strengthen, even if that was your weak point. Moyes should of made sure they signed a more creative midfielder. But more importantly, he should be doing better even with the current team.

P.S. Fans have the right to complain about anything that is happening to their club. If they don't like how Moyes is running United, it isn't 'an embarrassment' or being 'childish' to say so.

 

[dasty]

I was simply questioning Moyes' ability to sign big as he had a pretty bad record in the past for Everton with it as well as the footballing style we had under him. I know that we had been playing awful football in the past few years, but what better time to change our footballing style than under a new manager? Moyes, unfortunately, had made things worse, at least for the first 15 games in the league. And I should refrain myself from speaking of our last transfer window. I hope my questioning had not caused too much negativity amongst the United supporters here, and if I did, I apologize for it.

And to add to that, we had only scored 3 goals from open play at home this season with only Hull scoring less than us. Is that acceptable? Nope. Am I an embarrassment for demanding Moyes to do something about it quickly? I hope not.

 

[Mike.]

Okay, let's just say for a minute that everything to do with transfers in the Summer were down to Woodward (Which we have no actual way of knowing, I'd just like to point out).

Moyes tactics are negative and defensive. Even with the players you have available to you right now, you should still be able to beat the likes of Newcastle and West Brom at home. But you don't get enough players forward quick enough. You try to rush it, often hitting crosses/through balls in as soon as possible. But that means players haven't got forward in time.

As an example, I remember against Newcastle Van Persie (Your best finisher) picked up the ball quite deep in Newcastle's half. He turned and played the right-winger through (Might of been Valencia, I can't remember). The right winger then ran a few metres and tried to play a low through-ball/cross into the box when only one United player was there. Van Persie didn't have time to catch up and get anywhere near the box, nor had anyone else.

And regardless of whether or not Fergie failed to strengthen CM, the fact is he won the league, 5 out of the past 7 years. You'd only just lost out on the title in the last minutes in one of the 2 years you didn't win it. He had just strolled to success last season. Clearly, he didn't need to strengthen, even if that was your weak point. Moyes should of made sure they signed a more creative midfielder. But more importantly, he should be doing better even with the current team.

P.S. Fans have the right to complain about anything that is happening to their club. If they don't like how Moyes is running United, it isn't 'an embarrassment' or being 'childish' to say so.

What? Midfield has been our weak point for 4 years, Ferguson was just very good masking it, till we came up again sides with very strong mids. Like City. masking a weakness isn't the same as not being weak. Oh and calling for the managers head after 15 games is embarrassing. And yes Scotty, Woodward is in control of negotiations once the manager names his target, that is how the club has been run for years, that is pretty much what his job covers, as it was Gill's when he was at the club The whole point was that despite winning, its long been our weak spot. Dasty, Moyes himself is a reactive manager, he doesnt quite have a style yet. He has to learn one and impose himself.

 

[Scotty98TR]

What? Midfield has been our weak point for 4 years, Ferguson was just very good masking it, till we came up again sides with very strong mids. Like City. masking a weakness isn't the same as not being weak. Oh and calling for the managers head after 15 games is embarrassing. And yes Scotty, Woodward is in control of negotiations once the manager names his target, that is how the club has been run for years, that is pretty much what his job covers, as it was Gill's when he was at the club The whole point was that despite winning, its long been our weak spot. Dasty, Moyes himself is a reactive manager, he doesnt quite have a style yet. He has to learn one and impose himself.

Then surely it's Moyes fault for not identifying more realistic targets, better than Fellaini. Anyway, as I said, let's forget everything about transfers. Moyes' tactics are negative and simply not good enough. With the squad available, he should be doing better.

And stop trying to take the high ground. Dasty is as much of a fan as you, and has the right to have a negative opinion of the manager

 

[Mike.]

Then surely it's Moyes fault for not identifying more realistic targets, better than Fellaini. Anyway, as I said, let's forget everything about transfers. Moyes' tactics are negative and simply not good enough. With the squad available, he should be doing better.

And stop trying to take the high ground. Dasty is as much of a fan as you, and has the right to have a negative opinion of the manager

Fabregas, Herrera, Fellaini. Only one was unrealistic, but even then there were indications, I mean we literally went over this for months when it happened. and no one said he shouldn't be doing better, just that there is more to it than that. The players themsvels are not even doing the basics well enough, that isn't down to the manager. And what on earth is your last point. It's got nowt to do with high ground by saying Moyes a reactive manager. And sorry if, but you are saying he has that right, then I have the right to point out otherwise, no? Even though that wasn't even the point I was making.

 

[Puddz]

Then surely it's Moyes fault for not identifying more realistic targets, better than Fellaini. Anyway, as I said, let's forget everything about transfers. Moyes' tactics are negative and simply not good enough. With the squad available, he should be doing better.

And stop trying to take the high ground. Dasty is as much of a fan as you, and has the right to have a negative opinion of the manager

Have you ever considered that there might not have been someone on the market that United could have gotten easily that would do the job they need? We went for Thiago, Fabregas and Herrera and there were understandable reasons why they didn't join. It's not entirely Moyes fault when he has only been in the job for a few weeks at that time.

Also, Mike wasn't saying Datsy isn't allowed to have a negative opinion.

 

[TheFalse9]

Bayern outplaying us doesn't mean we were defensive. We always attack in numbers. Yes I know there were few games where we played very very defensively with SAF in charge but with the number of games he was in charge it's very negligible.

Yeah it's perfectly normal for ManUtd to attack with 2 attackers :rollani:

ManUtd fans are so so :facepalm: Saying Manager made a mistake is a sin and a pointless argument. Continue with Moyes did great but it was squad's fault **** while it is so obvious where the mistake is.

Attacking in numbers is not the same as playing 'nice football', as some people have said United play in this thread.

Okay, let's just say for a minute that everything to do with transfers in the Summer were down to Woodward (Which we have no actual way of knowing, I'd just like to point out).

Moyes tactics are negative and defensive. Even with the players you have available to you right now, you should still be able to beat the likes of Newcastle and West Brom at home. But you don't get enough players forward quick enough. You try to rush it, often hitting crosses/through balls in as soon as possible. But that means players haven't got forward in time.

As an example, I remember against Newcastle Van Persie (Your best finisher) picked up the ball quite deep in Newcastle's half. He turned and played the right-winger through (Might of been Valencia, I can't remember). The right winger then ran a few metres and tried to play a low through-ball/cross into the box when only one United player was there. Van Persie didn't have time to catch up and get anywhere near the box, nor had anyone else.

And regardless of whether or not Fergie failed to strengthen CM, the fact is he won the league, 5 out of the past 7 years. You'd only just lost out on the title in the last minutes in one of the 2 years you didn't win it. He had just strolled to success last season. Clearly, he didn't need to strengthen, even if that was your weak point. Moyes should of made sure they signed a more creative midfielder. But more importantly, he should be doing better even with the current team.

P.S. Fans have the right to complain about anything that is happening to their club. If they don't like how Moyes is running United, it isn't 'an embarrassment' or being 'childish' to say so.

I agree, Moyes's tactics are often poor and unadventurous, but the transfers aren't really his fault (he carries maybe only a little bit of blame for them). The statement about strengthening CM isn't really valid, by the way, because, as Mike.'s already said, masking a weakness isn't the same as not having one. Even though Fergie didn't need one to win the league, it doesn't mean that the squad's good enough to the win the league. Essentially, Fergie's just left Moyes in a tricky situation by not luring a CM in with his reputation, since, as shown in Thiago's case, the manager's reputation can play a big part in persuading a player. It's like Mourinho's Inter, he managed to win the treble with them, but he left Ben?tez with an ageing squad which wasn't capable of doing it again.

 

[Mike.]

We have to do a lot of things, everywhere. and everyone had to improve all cross the club. And Ashley Young should never play again.

 

[Scotty98TR]

Fabregas, Herrera, Fellaini. Only one was unrealistic, but even then there were indications, I mean we literally went over this for months when it happened. and no one said he shouldn't be doing better, just that there is more to it than that. The players themsvels are not even doing the basics well enough, that isn't down to the manager. And what on earth is your last point. It's got nowt to do with high ground by saying Moyes a reactive manager. And sorry if, but you are saying he has that right, then I have the right to point out otherwise, no? Even though that wasn't even the point I was making.

But you are saying people who don't want Moyes as the manager, or are not happy with what Moyes is doing are an embarrassment and are being childish. You mentioned that true fans of the club would get behind the manager regardless, but that is simply not true. I never said you shouldn't be saying your opinion on why Moyes needs time or whatever, but you shouldn't be calling people embarrassments for not blindly supporting Moyes.

Players don't suddenly become unable to do the basics over a month or two. There has to be a reason why they have gone from being by far the best team in the league, to being nowhere near the title race. And the only significant change has been Fergie being replaced by Moyes.

Have you ever considered that there might not have been someone on the market that United could have gotten easily that would do the job they need? We went for Thiago, Fabregas and Herrera and there were understandable reasons why they didn't join. It's not entirely Moyes fault when he has only been in the job for a few weeks at that time.

Also, Mike wasn't saying Datsy isn't allowed to have a negative opinion.

But there was. Mesut Ozil or Eriksen would both on been perfect. But as I keep saying, forget about the transfer business. I clearly said I am not talking about that.

And he said people like him were being childish or an embarrassment to the club/not a proper fan/etc. etc. Read what I wrote above (To Mike)

Attacking in numbers is not the same as playing 'nice football', as some people have said United play in this thread.


I agree, Moyes's tactics are often poor and unadventurous, but the transfers aren't really his fault (he carries maybe only a little bit of blame for them). The statement about strengthening CM isn't really valid, by the way, because, as Mike.'s already said, masking a weakness isn't the same as not having one. Even though Fergie didn't need one to win the league, it doesn't mean that the squad's good enough to the win the league. Essentially, Fergie's just left Moyes in a tricky situation by not luring a CM in with his reputation, since, as shown in Thiago's case, the manager's reputation can play a big part in persuading a player. It's like Mourinho's Inter, he managed to win the treble with them, but he left Ben?tez with an ageing squad which wasn't capable of doing it again.

I also keep having to say I am talking solely about transfers here, and am not blaming anyone for the transfers. And if Moyes can't mask that weakness - baring in mind all United's other strengths - then he isn't good enough to be manager of Manchester United.

Anyway, as I said, let's forget everything about transfers.

 

[Mike.]

Scotty, if you are calling for the new manager's head after 15 games, when he is following one of the greatest ever, that is embarrassing. It's going to take two seasons, he's not even had half. considering that United fans have always prided themselves (perhaps false?) on being patient, that is incredibly fickle. All this talk before season was about giving time. and suddenly, no? That is embarrassing, frankly. And Ozil is not perfect, nor is Eriksen because they are both 10s, and we need CMs.

 

[TJD07]

And he said people like him were being childish or an embarrassment to the club/not a proper fan/etc. etc. Read what I wrote above (To Mike)

Mike said it was an embarrassment to be booing and wanting the manager out and sitting there in the stadium wanting others around you to do the same. I agree with him, that's no way to support the club you care about, fickle fans are the ones who do that without just cause. He never called out Datsy about anything, he just noted that Moyes has no real approach and now he's at a bigger club needs to focus more on one and develop it.

United aren't the big fish in the pond currently, SAF did an amazing job at covering up the clubs weaknesses and exploiting what it had. Moyes isn't SAF and to expect to be winning the league with what team he had isn't going to happen. Yes it's a championship team but it's one with no real midfield and players getting on a bit whilst others are yet to reach their potential.

 

[Scotty98TR]

Scotty, if you are calling for the new manager's head after 15 games, when he is following one of the greatest ever, that is embarrassing. It's going to take two seasons, he's not even had half. considering that United fans have always prided themselves (perhaps false?) on being patient, that is incredibly fickle. All this talk before season was about giving time. and suddenly, no? That is embarrassing, frankly. And Ozil is not perfect, nor is Eriksen because they are both 10s, and we need CMs.

If you said before the season started you were going to give him time, and/or you were happy about the appointment to begin with (Baring in mind alot of people won't of actually seen how Everton played under Moyes), and now you are saying that you want Moyes out, then yes, that is hypocritical.
But the majority of people are complaining about Moyes defensive tactics, not saying he should be fired. It isn't embarrassing to vent your frustrations, especially when he clearly isn't good enough at the moment. I agree it takes time to adapt, but that doesn't mean having 9 or 10 men behind the ball in almost every game, then not barely attacking. That isn't down to taking time to adapt - to me, that sounds like he's scared of losing. Something Fergie definitely wasn't.
I don't see how United fans can pride them selves on being patient, when the majority have never had a need to be.
They would of given you exactly what you need. You lack creativity, but have enough about you defensively.


P.S. Off topic, but are other people getting notifications when they're quoted? 'Cos I'm not :/

 

[Scotty98TR]

Mike said it was an embarrassment to be booing and wanting the manager out and sitting there in the stadium wanting others around you to do the same. I agree with him, that's no way to support the club you care about, fickle fans are the ones who do that without just cause. He never called out Datsy about anything, he just noted that Moyes has no real approach and now he's at a bigger club needs to focus more on one and develop it.

United aren't the big fish in the pond currently, SAF did an amazing job at covering up the clubs weaknesses and exploiting what it had. Moyes isn't SAF and to expect to be winning the league with what team he had isn't going to happen. Yes it's a championship team but it's one with no real midfield and players getting on a bit whilst others are yet to reach their potential.

Datsy was an example, I never said he called him an embarrassment specifically. Why does not wanting Moyes as manager make you less of a fan. I agree that without just cause, fair enough. But there is just cause for it.

And yes, you wouldn't expect them to be winning the league. But nor would you expect them to be 9th, having lost to West Brom and Newcastle at home.

 

[Mike.]

If you said before the season started you were going to give him time, and/or you were happy about the appointment to begin with (Baring in mind alot of people won't of actually seen how Everton played under Moyes), and now you are saying that you want Moyes out, then yes, that is hypocritical.
But the majority of people are complaining about Moyes defensive tactics, not saying he should be fired. It isn't embarrassing to vent your frustrations, especially when he clearly isn't good enough at the moment. I agree it takes time to adapt, but that doesn't mean having 9 or 10 men behind the ball in almost every game, then not barely attacking. That isn't down to taking time to adapt - to me, that sounds like he's scared of losing. Something Fergie definitely wasn't.
I don't see how United fans can pride them selves on being patient, when the majority have never had a need to be.
They would of given you exactly what you need. You lack creativity, but have enough about you defensively.


P.S. Off topic, but are other people getting notifications when they're quoted? 'Cos I'm not :/

We don't need creativity. We need a controlling platform, for our creative players