The Manchester United Thread

Mike. said:
It depends on who your targets are and who is interested, and how quickly you think you can reclaim it. But like I said, these are players I would chase this window, or have deals agreed for a least one now for the summer.
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Yep I think United should definitely try and make moves for this window ... It's very risky to leave all this to the summer
 
zzeezzy said:
So what? Many clubs have changed managers and it certainly as effected them hasn't it? Chelsea - Mourinho, Everton - Martinez, Man City - Pellegrini, Southampton - Pochettino (Ok I know he's been there a few seasons but it was smooth transition).

Then going in to Europe... Bayern - Pep.... Real Madrid - Ancelotti...... Barca - Martino.

This squad were not only league champions last year but remember the margin? Also when you have players like De Gea, Rooney, RVP, Vidic, Rafael etc. you can hardly make an excuse for the big down-fall. The biggest problem has been his tactics, not adventurous enough until it's too late, take Tottenham the other day.
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All of the managers you've named, bar Mart?nez and Martino, have managed at a similar level to their new jobs before. Moyes has not. Therefore, the pressure and expectation he feels at United will be a very new experience to him. And with the other managers, they haven't had an old squad (or at least an ageing squad) which needs to be changed quite a bit, so it's not really the same scenario. Add to that an ineffective executive vice-chairman in Ed Woodward, and Moyes is in a really difficult situation. Remember when AVB tried to overhaul Chelsea's squad a few seasons back? This situation is more akin to that than any of the examples you've named, to be honest. I'm not saying it's not Moyes's fault at all, just that he does need time to adapt, and it actually is a transition period for United.
 
zzeezzy said:
So what? Many clubs have changed managers and it certainly as effected them hasn't it? Chelsea - Mourinho, Everton - Martinez, Man City - Pellegrini, Southampton - Pochettino (Ok I know he's been there a few seasons but it was smooth transition).

Then going in to Europe... Bayern - Pep.... Real Madrid - Ancelotti...... Barca - Martino.

This squad were not only league champions last year but remember the margin? Also when you have players like De Gea, Rooney, RVP, Vidic, Rafael etc. you can hardly make an excuse for the big down-fall. The biggest problem has been his tactics, not adventurous enough until it's too late, take Tottenham the other day.
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We've been adventurous for a quite a while recently, but lack the creative spark, so i question how close you watch us. Too late? he make subs on 55 and 60 minutes FFS! We arguably could have done better with a more patient, load the midfield approach against them.

Chelsea, City, Bayern, Madrid, Barca have a lot less issues than us. Everton are two points better off. No well actually you can, because of the same issue we have been talking about for ever. We dont have a midfield.
 
Alcaraz said:
Yep I think United should definitely try and make moves for this window ... It's very risky to leave all this to the summer
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Yep all available, at a premium. Are we big enough gamblers? I would say its time to be. We've been hamstrung by no Gill as well, needed someone to whisper in Moyes ear about the market at this level" you need to move quicker"
 
Mike. said:
Yep all available, at a premium. Are we big enough gamblers? I would say its time to be. We've been hamstrung by no Gill as well, needed someone to whisper in Moyes ear about the market at this level" you need to move quicker"
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Except for Matic imo as I think Benefica have set an absurd asking price for him which is why Chelsea backed away and went for Guarin
 
Mike. said:
We've been adventurous for a quite a while recently, but lack the creative spark, so i question how close you watch us. Too late? he make subs on 55 and 60 minutes FFS! We arguably could have done better with a more patient, load the midfield approach against them.

Chelsea, City, Bayern, Madrid, Barca have a lot less issues than us. Everton are two points better off. No well actually you can, because of the same issue we have been talking about for ever. We dont have a midfield.
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This issue could of been resolved in the summer, but no, we chase Fabregas forever and a day wasting our time then realise that it's August 31st and the only option left is Fellaini for more than his release clause was earlier.

We can argue about tactics all day long, I disagree, that Tottenham game we were second best up to when they scored to make it 2-0, only then did the fire kick in and you have to wonder why. If this is Moyes adventurous tactics I'd hate to see his disciplined one.
 
zzeezzy said:
This issue could of been resolved in the summer, but no, we chase Fabregas forever and a day wasting our time then realise that it's August 31st and the only option left is Fellaini for more than his release clause was earlier.

We can argue about tactics all day long, I disagree, that Tottenham game we were second best up to when they scored to make it 2-0, only then did the fire kick in and you have to wonder why. If this is Moyes adventurous tactics I'd hate to see his disciplined one.
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It's almost like you miss the point entirely every time. We control lots of ball, and struggle to cut teams apart. BECAUSE WE LACK THAT KIND OF MIDFIELDER. That was the biggest problem vs spurs with our 61% posession, didnt have a single central midfield player who thrives on that much ball and can slice teams apart with split passing and test them with long range shots.
 
United have been left behind in the transfer market for quite some time (RVP excluded) and the last time I checked Moyes wasn't in charge during all those transfer windows.
 
Alcaraz said:
Except for Matic imo as I think Benefica have set an absurd asking price for him which is why Chelsea backed away and went for Guarin
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I think Chelsea are actually being quite stingy, because they are far apart on Guarin too, but yes I expect Matic to be expensive
 
W4NKER said:
United have been left behind in the transfer market for quite some time (RVP excluded) and the last time I checked Moyes wasn't in charge during all those transfer windows.
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Exactly! It's actually rarity to get a player like RVP.
 
Mike. said:
It's almost like you miss the point entirely every time. We control lots of ball, and struggle to cut teams apart. BECAUSE WE LACK THAT KIND OF MIDFIELDER. That was the biggest problem vs spurs with our 61% posession, didnt have a single central midfield player who thrives on that much ball and can slice teams apart with split passing and test them with long range shots.
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Agreed 10000000%. This is the problem right here:

Manchester Utd Stats - Manchester United News, Transfer Talk & Gossip | TEAMtalk

Bollocks all creativity. Moyes has had one transfer window to address it. Fergie had about 10 and still failed. The old 'no value in the market excuse'
 
Mike. said:
It's almost like you miss the point entirely every time. We control lots of ball, and struggle to cut teams apart. BECAUSE WE LACK THAT KIND OF MIDFIELDER. That was the biggest problem vs spurs with our 61% posession, didnt have a single central midfield player who thrives on that much ball and can slice teams apart with split passing and test them with long range shots.
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And you're missing the point as well, how can you defend Moyes considering what he has done so far this season? So you're blaming it completely on players and not at all on his tactics or substitutions in any games?

Is a good manager all about signing midfield players.. suddenly that would make us completely different even though we are known about playing through wingers? How can you have league champions and then suddenly not a squad good enough for top 4? Moyes is to blame for nearly all of it, not anyone else, apart from perhaps Ed Woodward.

The fact that Fergie had choice of manager in the first place was ludicrous, it should be down to the board... not a ****** manager. He was the wrong choice then and is proving to be so now. There is no comparisons to Fergie apart from their nationality, at least Fergie had actually achieved something at the top-level before he joined and had a winning reputation.
 
Mike. said:
Closest central mid is Ryan Giggs... A 40 year old converted winger.
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Compare the stats on that site to the likes of Man City and its all too clear.

I can't find the actual quote but I couldn't believe that it took 16 Premier League games for a Man Utd midfielder to register an assist!
 
zzeezzy said:
And you're missing the point as well, how can you defend Moyes considering what he has done so far this season? So you're blaming it completely on players and not at all on his tactics or substitutions in any games?

Is a good manager all about signing midfield players.. suddenly that would make us completely different even though we are known about playing through wingers? How can you have league champions and then suddenly not a squad good enough for top 4? Moyes is to blame for nearly all of it, not anyone else, apart from perhaps Ed Woodward.

The fact that Fergie had choice of manager in the first place was ludicrous, it should be down to the board... not a ****** manager. He was the wrong choice then and is proving to be so now. There is no comparisons to Fergie apart from their nationality, at least Fergie had actually achieved something at the top-level before he joined and had a winning reputation.
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Ha. Moyes would have gave a list of targets to Ed, its up to Ed to sign them. He failed miserably.

And everyone else strengthened last window whilst Utd were left with Felliani plus possibly the worst league-winning side ever.
 
W4NKER said:
Ha. Moyes would have gave a list of targets to Ed, its up to Ed to sign them. He failed miserably.
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Same squad didn't do too bad last season though did they? No excuses for being 7th after 20 games.
 
zzeezzy said:
And you're missing the point as well, how can you defend Moyes considering what he has done so far this season? So you're blaming it completely on players and not at all on his tactics or substitutions in any games?

Is a good manager all about signing midfield players.. suddenly that would make us completely different even though we are known about playing through wingers? How can you have league champions and then suddenly not a squad good enough for top 4? Moyes is to blame for nearly all of it, not anyone else, apart from perhaps Ed Woodward.

The fact that Fergie had choice of manager in the first place was ludicrous, it should be down to the board... not a ****** manager. He was the wrong choice then and is proving to be so now. There is no comparisons to Fergie apart from their nationality, at least Fergie had actually achieved something at the top-level before he joined and had a winning reputation.
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Bollocks. Moyes had achieved his fair share at Everton, just because he didn't win anything doesn't mean he didn't do well. Obviously he's not going to be as accomplished as Fergie, not many people are, but to say he didn't achieve anything at the top-level, and that he didn't have a winning reputation at Everton, is bollocks. That's not to say he's necessarily suited to managing a 'big' club, mind you, just that you can't say he achieved nothing at Everton without sounding like an ignoramus.
 
zzeezzy said:
And you're missing the point as well, how can you defend Moyes considering what he has done so far this season? So you're blaming it completely on players and not at all on his tactics or substitutions in any games?

Is a good manager all about signing midfield players.. suddenly that would make us completely different even though we are known about playing through wingers? How can you have league champions and then suddenly not a squad good enough for top 4? Moyes is to blame for nearly all of it, not anyone else, apart from perhaps Ed Woodward.

The fact that Fergie had choice of manager in the first place was ludicrous, it should be down to the board... not a ****** manager. He was the wrong choice then and is proving to be so now. There is no comparisons to Fergie apart from their nationality, at least Fergie had actually achieved something at the top-level before he joined and had a winning reputation.
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Strawman post since I never said he was blameless. But yes two players would make all the difference, the same way RVP and Carrick almost fired us to the title last season.

Because not everything his Moyes' fault. Because I'm not so ludicrously one eyed that I cannot see that there are many issues, with many people all over the club at fault.

Because I actually realise that SAF papered over the gaps last season with of the best forwards in the world in ludricrous form and Carrick near the top of his game, and neither got injured long term!

The single biggest issue right now is lack of creativity, do we blame Moyes for failing to address in one window, or Ferguson for failing in 8?

But if you cant see how this amounts to a transition, I really, really cannot be bothered carrying this on.
 
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