The Manchester United Thread
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Seriously dude... I'm disappointed, you've only dropped your expectations to below top 4 because Moyes is in charge, that's all it can be. Even a season of transition wouldn't explain dropping outside the top 4. We were ****** champions last year!!! Even Everton are doing better than us!
I suppose we shall see all in time, but sorry... when Moyes gives me something to shout about, I might do it. But right now, it's been embarrassing.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Dude.... let me point it out to you clear, Jose didn't ever want this anyway... many sources close to him knew his intentions was never to be the man to replace Fergie directly after.
Fergie got the choice of this manager, which I have to say, is hideous as well. I mean it doesn't matter how anything is done, it has to be the ****** board who assesses and makes that decision.
If the board had of made it, I don't think Moyes could of been the man, he has some credentials but no where near enough to touch the United hot seat.
Umm no I didnt you just made that up. I'm talking about a scenario. It doesnt actually matter to them if we are title winners or midtable for 6 years. They can make a massive profit anyway. How much depends on how high we are, we have to hope they care how high we are.
Umm yeah that only came out after Ferguson picked Moyes. Nice try though. He changed his tone about the job after that was announced. From the last 16 (when we were knocked out) to the decision, he purred about Ferguson and United. Then suddenly its blue blue blue.
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The board agreed to the decision. they could have vetoed it. Fergie made the choice, but the board has to agree.
Fergie made the initial decision, the board followed it, we know this....
Anyway it's been great chatting but appears no one likes me posting against Mr. Moyes just because he's made mistakes and I can't highlight them. Then I get ludicrous replies saying about Fergie who made a signing with Bebe and how Fellaini is justified as not a panic buy, suddenly it's all right and I'm wrong.
I still want to know the whole how Fellaini wasn't a panic buy.
See again you just made the bold up, because everyone has pointed out various things, so dont lie. I'm off to the pub.
Made what up? You've just spend your last 10 minutes trying to defend him lol.... Christ on a cross.
You know he might not have intented to take the job, but knowing Jose he would have liked to be Fergie's chosen successor only to publicly turn the job down. Jose loves the press as he can manipulate it easily.
Mike went to the pub in pure frustration and sent me a text telling me to tell you to shut up. Turns out I'm in the mood for a debate anyway.
I wouldn't, if Moyes was a 30 year old in his first management job. But he's not. He's an experienced manager with a track record of scouting and improving young talent. Five months at a club in transition does not beat eleven successful years at Everton.
Because United wanted him cheaper. Just because he's a target doesn't mean you have to immediately break the bank for him.
Strawman argument there. Nobody's said Moyes shouldn't EVER be criticised, just that your ridiculous standards and criticism is out of order.
Lallana would be pretty pointless since I don't think he's better than Nani, Januzaj or Kagawa on the wings, and won't get into the central berth ahead of Rooney. The other three would all be good choices, but none of them would be cheap, and Cabaye's getting on a bit.
Name them. Name the journalists who said that. Because from where I stand, as someone who actually has a job writing about football and as someone who follows a shitton of journalists, I didn't see one reliable journo actually say that Moyes TURNED DOWN Strootman.
That's a retarded argument, and totally unrelated to my point. My point was you wouldn't lambast Ferguson for personally scouting potential signings, so it's absolutely ******* unfair to do the opposite to Moyes.
United could get RELEGATED and still not lose money. If that really was the case, they'd hire the cheapest guy available.
LOL.
Yes, let us do that. Good idea, bringing up American Football when you obviously know ******* nothing about it.
Let me tell you about the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, the Glazers' NFL franchise. They're a small franchise with not much history, having only been formed in 1976. Expansion teams often have it rough in the early years, and the Bucs were no exception. They only finally stabilised into an average side in about 1979, when Lee Roy Selmon led a dominant defence protecting a reliable but unremarkable offence. In 1980, they made the playoffs for the first time. Unfortunately for the next fifteen years they did pretty much nothing, occasionally getting to the playoffs but mostly being throttled by their owner Hugh Culverhouse's tight control of wage expenditure. This made them profitable but not particularly good.
Then Culverhouse died, leaving a team that was decent but not able to play to its full potential, as well as the franchise itself bereft of funds. But then the Glazers came along. They put in Tony Dungy, a Del Bosque-style team-builder rather than a firebrand tactician. Dungy hired good coordinators and they went 10-6 in the season. The season after, in '97, they improved even more, and this trend of continual playoff runs eventually ended in 2002, where they won the Super Bowl. In short, the Glazers not only turned the franchise around, they took a team that was nowhere near winning and turned them into champions by hiring the right people and investing where necessary.
Oh, and they've only had five head coaches during the Glazer era. That's over the course of nearly twenty years.
You want to talk more about American Football, or will you shut up about it now?
You love your strawmen, don't you? At no point did he say anything like that.
Why would the board have any reason to doubt Ferguson? If I was an American with relatively limited knowledge of football, I think I'd rely on the legendary manager who's been in the game for almost all of his life over myself.
No, nobody likes you being ******* retarded, but apparently that's all you're doing. Seriously, your arguments are either nonsensical, fantastical, misinformed or just raging over nothing.
Yeah, so ******* what? He just spent 10 minutes defending Moyes, doesn't mean you're not allowed to highlight his flaws. ****, Mike's been highlighting Moyes' flaws as much as anyone. What you shouldn't be doing is just talking bollocks, which, unfortunately, you are.
I wouldn't, if Moyes was a 30 year old in his first management job. But he's not. He's an experienced manager with a track record of scouting and improving young talent. Five months at a club in transition does not beat eleven successful years at Everton.
Because United wanted him cheaper. Just because he's a target doesn't mean you have to immediately break the bank for him.
Strawman argument there. Nobody's said Moyes shouldn't EVER be criticised, just that your ridiculous standards and criticism is out of order.
Lallana would be pretty pointless since I don't think he's better than Nani, Januzaj or Kagawa on the wings, and won't get into the central berth ahead of Rooney. The other three would all be good choices, but none of them would be cheap, and Cabaye's getting on a bit.
Name them. Name the journalists who said that. Because from where I stand, as someone who actually has a job writing about football and as someone who follows a shitton of journalists, I didn't see one reliable journo actually say that Moyes TURNED DOWN Strootman.
That's a retarded argument, and totally unrelated to my point. My point was you wouldn't lambast Ferguson for personally scouting potential signings, so it's absolutely ******* unfair to do the opposite to Moyes.
United could get RELEGATED and still not lose money. If that really was the case, they'd hire the cheapest guy available.
LOL.
Yes, let us do that. Good idea, bringing up American Football when you obviously know ******* nothing about it.
Let me tell you about the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, the Glazers' NFL franchise. They're a small franchise with not much history, having only been formed in 1976. Expansion teams often have it rough in the early years, and the Bucs were no exception. They only finally stabilised into an average side in about 1979, when Lee Roy Selmon led a dominant defence protecting a reliable but unremarkable offence. In 1980, they made the playoffs for the first time. Unfortunately for the next fifteen years they did pretty much nothing, occasionally getting to the playoffs but mostly being throttled by their owner Hugh Culverhouse's tight control of wage expenditure. This made them profitable but not particularly good.
Then Culverhouse died, leaving a team that was decent but not able to play to its full potential, as well as the franchise itself bereft of funds. But then the Glazers came along. They put in Tony Dungy, a Del Bosque-style team-builder rather than a firebrand tactician. Dungy hired good coordinators and they went 10-6 in the season. The season after, in '97, they improved even more, and this trend of continual playoff runs eventually ended in 2002, where they won the Super Bowl. In short, the Glazers not only turned the franchise around, they took a team that was nowhere near winning and turned them into champions by hiring the right people and investing where necessary.
Oh, and they've only had five head coaches during the Glazer era. That's over the course of nearly twenty years.
You want to talk more about American Football, or will you shut up about it now?
You love your strawmen, don't you? At no point did he say anything like that.
Why would the board have any reason to doubt Ferguson? If I was an American with relatively limited knowledge of football, I think I'd rely on the legendary manager who's been in the game for almost all of his life over myself.
No, nobody likes you being ******* retarded, but apparently that's all you're doing. Seriously, your arguments are either nonsensical, fantastical, misinformed or just raging over nothing.
Yeah, so ******* what? He just spent 10 minutes defending Moyes, doesn't mean you're not allowed to highlight his flaws. ****, Mike's been highlighting Moyes' flaws as much as anyone. What you shouldn't be doing is just talking bollocks, which, unfortunately, you are.
You're making me tired just reading through this but I shall attempt it all...
So because Moyes is an experienced manager you're basically saying I should trust him for things he has done at a previous club? Despite making several mistakes last summer... not worth going in to again.
They wanted Fellaini cheaper? So they were naive and didn't pay the release clause and then realised on the last day Everton were not budging and had to pay more anyway? Right... so what have you proven here exactly? Moving on.
How are my standards ridiculous? This is ****** Manchester United, his mistakes last window were bad enough and scouting players like Marchisio, Vidal or Pogba in the middle of the January transfer window is just rubbish anyway. They are clearly not good enough for United's midfield.
A guy called Allistair Ferguson who is connected to many things United on his twitter, he also had a post on his timeline about this Glazers and their American football franchise. Look I don't give a donkey's hoot about American Football, but this guy usually posts relevant stuff so I highly doubt it can be that wrong. If it is, then fair enough, but missing out on Champions League will have an effect on any team, don't forget we're still in ****** debt as well. Glazer's will take action if they see we're going in the wrong direction.... outside top 4 is a major falling for a team like United.
Lallana I've always rated really highly, I think he's a great player on the ball and his versatility would be welcome for United. Nani? Why are you bringing him up, he's not someone who has been playing at his best form for the last few seasons or more. He's been very inconsistent while he's been at United in general with his performances.
But yes, what's the excuse for Moyes not going for one of the other 3 I mentioned? Or is it a case of he is looking at unrealistic targets again.... more than likely. Funny that, brings me back to Marchisio, Vidal and Pogba oh and Fabregas lol.
Wait... why are you bringing the owners in to this? That's irrelevant as to what my point was trying to get across. It is down to the board to make the decision, not the ****** manager. They should of assessed many candidates who would of been interested and therefore if that would of happened Moyes wouldn't of been in the hot-seat right now.
Don't start bringing words like retarded and stuff like that in to this. Apart from the american football thing which may be wrong my points are all valid.
How am I talking such rubbish when you clearly felt the need to go in-depth to reply to different sections of my post?
So because Moyes is an experienced manager you're basically saying I should trust him for things he has done at a previous club? Despite making several mistakes last summer... not worth going in to again.
They wanted Fellaini cheaper? So they were naive and didn't pay the release clause and then realised on the last day Everton were not budging and had to pay more anyway? Right... so what have you proven here exactly? Moving on.
How are my standards ridiculous? This is ****** Manchester United, his mistakes last window were bad enough and scouting players like Marchisio, Vidal or Pogba in the middle of the January transfer window is just rubbish anyway. They are clearly not good enough for United's midfield.
A guy called Allistair Ferguson who is connected to many things United on his twitter, he also had a post on his timeline about this Glazers and their American football franchise. Look I don't give a donkey's hoot about American Football, but this guy usually posts relevant stuff so I highly doubt it can be that wrong. If it is, then fair enough, but missing out on Champions League will have an effect on any team, don't forget we're still in ****** debt as well. Glazer's will take action if they see we're going in the wrong direction.... outside top 4 is a major falling for a team like United.
Lallana I've always rated really highly, I think he's a great player on the ball and his versatility would be welcome for United. Nani? Why are you bringing him up, he's not someone who has been playing at his best form for the last few seasons or more. He's been very inconsistent while he's been at United in general with his performances.
But yes, what's the excuse for Moyes not going for one of the other 3 I mentioned? Or is it a case of he is looking at unrealistic targets again.... more than likely. Funny that, brings me back to Marchisio, Vidal and Pogba oh and Fabregas lol.
Wait... why are you bringing the owners in to this? That's irrelevant as to what my point was trying to get across. It is down to the board to make the decision, not the ****** manager. They should of assessed many candidates who would of been interested and therefore if that would of happened Moyes wouldn't of been in the hot-seat right now.
Don't start bringing words like retarded and stuff like that in to this. Apart from the american football thing which may be wrong my points are all valid.
How am I talking such rubbish when you clearly felt the need to go in-depth to reply to different sections of my post?
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Ride The Walrus
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Yes didn't you get the sense of the post... I'm taking the **** as to Moyes scouting methods for top players.
Yes, I am. Remember it isn't only Moyes making these decisions. All his advisors have hardly been stellar.
What do you think I was trying to prove? I always said Fellaini was a panic buy and that United were naive. Fine, don't think many would argue with that. All I gave was a reason why his release clause wasn't met.
Your standards are ridiculous because you take such a tunnel-visioned view. You just assume United can rock up, place a bid and get it all wrapped up within a couple of days. Sometimes there are reasons why transfers haven't happened, and the vast majority of the time we don't know, so I'd stop assuming if I were you.
Wow, so connected and yet he's still posting ******* bullshit like that stuff you put up about there being 18 head coaches in 20 years at the Bucs? You can highly doubt its incorrectness all you want, or you could just go look it up here and see for yourself. Anyone that unable to fact check for stuff that simple is not worth giving any credence to at all, full stop.
You're in debt, yes, but it's not actually that important at the minute. Mike's made loads of posts going into detail on why you shouldn't be worried and knows a lot more than I do about it, but the long and the short of it is that United can be in way more debt than they currently are and still do fine financially.
Cool. Doesn't change the fact that he isn't what's needed.
No he hasn't. In the time he's been at United, Nani's been your most consistent winger. I know Joel', for one, doesn't like it when people say ignorant stuff like that about Nani, and I think I agree. But besides that, he's still at the same level as Lallana.
Stop saying Moyes is only responsible for transfers. He's not. Ferguson might've been since he was so ingrained in the club and had so much power, but Moyes is pretty secondary to United's transfer team at the minute, headed by the spectacularly incompetent Ed Woodward.
Why am I bringing the owners into it? You brought them up in your post about the Buccaneers, not me!
Yes, it's down to the board to appoint a manager, but they'd be ******* stupid to ignore Ferguson's advice. If they had, we'd be sitting here now with United having appointed someone like Zlatko ******* Kranjcar and you'd be having a go at them for not having listened to Ferguson at all!
They're just not though. That's why I'm saying it.
Because apparently in today's society telling stupid people they're being stupid and leaving it at that is unacceptable. Shame, it'd make this post a lot shorter. Also, maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment.
Words.....fail me. I honestly don't know how to respond. And I also don't know whether to laugh or cry. Jesus wept.
Going to make a cuppa to try and gather my thoughts because some of the criticism is completely and utterly unwarranted.
Going to make a cuppa to try and gather my thoughts because some of the criticism is completely and utterly unwarranted.
Ferguson did thorough scouting before signing any player, not only on field but also he wanted to know off field as much as possible before signing any player.
He admitted Bebe was the only player he signed without watching him play and said Jose admitted Madrid wanted to sign him too as he had some raw talent.
So even Ferguson made scouts to do extra scouting all the time, point was Moyes' way of doing transfers is different so he wanted new reports as per his inputs.
Theatreof Dreams
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Depends if Nani or Young back from injury imo.
