The Manchester United Thread

[Scouseinthehouse]

Every summer it is always this, we need 3 or so signings ....

3/ 5 year plans. Always 2 or 3 signings away. One big signing turning the corner until you've turned that many corners you don't know where the starting point ever was that needed fixing.

Been through 2 decades and more of this. I feel your pain.

 

[zzeezzy]

The Glazers are business men. Nothing more. They have improved the commercial side of the club 1000% since they came. You can argue about the money we have to spend paying back the debt but the fact is that the money being used to pay the debt is covered by all the sponsorships that the Glazers and their team have aquired over the years. The money for the debt is only a fraction of what we generate because of them. The term ppeculate to accumulate is perfect for them.

They have set us up for the foreseeable future from the commercial side. We were the first to have a training kit sponsor, training ground sponsor. and everything else they have done. When these deals are up for renewal, they can only get bigger.

They never interfere with the football side of things. Which is the best thing any owner could do. All they are interested in is making money, and we have made 10 fold with them at the club

They have improved us commercially, which is great for all of us who are interested in commercial business and money. But quite frankly I can assume that the majority of us fans don't give a **** about that kind of stuff and care about the club's footballing side of things. Even before the Glazers came when we were NOT in debt I shall add we had more than enough financial muscle to compete commercially and were just fine.

Also realise that all this will go away over time with the lack of success and the wrong or I should say, lack of decisions they are making now which will cost the club. All the Glazers or board care about as you have admitted is money, so until that has a negative impact they will only then make a decision which will be to late for us on the pitch, we will already be beyond reach of salvaging this season with top 4 for example. Which will also affect us going into next season and so on and so forth.

 

[steveorobbo]

Woody has gone way further than saying there is just funds available though. He says we want to sign big players and then he says there is no budget because we are in a very strong financial situation. Must be like soothing words to other clubs because if they have 'no budget' then why not charge United absolute premium for our players?

Its not just us that gets charged through the nose. All Premiership clubs will be now. The new TV deal isnt only news in England. Clubs worldwide know about it. Some clubs wont even get 10% of what a relegated Premiership team will get, by actually winning the league in their country.

Even Championship clubs fleece the Relegated teams because they kow they have had a nice payout from the Premier League, and will spend the best they can to make sure they go straight back there.

You have the money lists aswell where we are always in the top 3. We was even the most valuable sports brand in the world across all sports not so long ago. Plus news of all our deals being made public. Other clubs know exactly what we have to spend. Woodward opening his mouth doesnt change a thing as far as other clubs are concerned. They already know.

 

[sunilvk7]

Every summer it is always this, we need 3 or so signings, that only applies if they are the right ones. Name me a transfer window under Woodward where you have been confident that it has been well thought out and not involved a panic buy.

Even last summer you can say that Martial was a panic buy and there was next to no thought put into it, we ship out like 4 strikers and then bring in 1 at the last moment then wonder why in this season we are struggling for goals.

Same can be said for defence and all our other problem areas that was evident way before this season.

Obviously LVG has a big responsibility to this as well.

Van Gaal decides the squad, Woodward make the business.

Van Gaal says RVP, Hernandez should be out. Woodward will make the deals to sell them.

In few mins you will blame Woodward for Indian political mess.

Also to answer your point, transfers that were thought out and made early: Herrera, Shaw, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Depay, Darmian.

We signed Di Maria late as he was injured and he wanted to join PSG. Blind, Rojo because of World cup and they made to semi finals and finals.

Martial was signed year early though, it was only after Monaco were knocked out they were open for negotiations. Thank God or Woody that we didn't miss out on him.

 

[sunilvk7]

They have improved us commercially, which is great for all of us who are interested in commercial business and money. But quite frankly I can assume that the majority of us fans don't give a **** about that kind of stuff and care about the club's footballing side of things. Even before the Glazers came when we were NOT in debt I shall add we had more than enough financial muscle to compete commercially and were just fine.

Couldn't be more wrong with this post. That was before Chelsea and City mega money kicked in.

We missed out on signings because of our rigid wage structure. Ronaldinho deal, ring a bell? Or will you blame Woodward for that too?

 

[steveorobbo]

They have improved us commercially, which is great for all of us who are interested in commercial business and money. But quite frankly I can assume that the majority of us fans don't give a **** about that kind of stuff and care about the club's footballing side of things. Even before the Glazers came when we were NOT in debt I shall add we had more than enough financial muscle to compete commercially and were just fine.

Also realise that all this will go away over time with the lack of success and the wrong or I should say, lack of decisions they are making now which will cost the club. All the Glazers or board care about as you have admitted is money, so until that has a negative impact they will only then make a decision which will be to late for us on the pitch, we will already be beyond reach of salvaging this season with top 4 for example. Which will also affect us going into next season and so on and so forth.

They are already making decisions because of losing money. They have let us spend £250m to get back into the Champions League, because not being in it has a negative effect on them.

At the moment, they are probably still confident of making the top 4. 5 point or whatever it is isnt really a lot. Considering we have to play those teams above and around us again aswell. It just needs to click. But even if we do make top 4, I can see LVG being sacked/mutual consent in the summer. He only has a year left by then, and no obvious improvement in 2 seasons. No reason why they should stick with him for another year, knowing he's going after that season anyway.

Also we have the added threat of our Champions League places being knocked down to 3 from the end of next season, if Italian teams continue to do well. Our exit from the group stage has massively improved Italy's chances of taking that fourth spot for their league. We have no confidence whatsoever in the team to go far or even win the Europa League. Another early exit will almost hand that 4th spot to Italy.

So in all likelyhood, next season we will have to finish in the top 3 to get Champions League football. If LVG is struggling to get 4th after spending £250m, I dont see why they would chance him getting top 3 and giving him even more money.

 

[zzeezzy]

Couldn't be more wrong with this post. That was before Chelsea and City mega money kicked in.

We missed out on signings because of our rigid wage structure. Ronaldinho deal, ring a bell? Or will you blame Woodward for that too?

Who cares about City's/ gung ho approach for transfers and wages anyway, there is nothing sustainable about it and they have benefited with a few PL titles but they are still utter dross in Europe. That approach is great if you have a vision of signing big players with no kind of long term plan, which it seems Woodward wants the club to be. But we will not have sustained success with it.

This whole galactico style vision that Woodward has will get us into a similar type of Real Madrid situation, spending fucktons of money but getting little reward. I'd rather us take the more Atletico approach, build a team and have a vision for the future rather than just now. That's more the United way if you ask me.

Plus realise that City are building for the future, with their youth and training complexes, all that malarky you have no doubt heard about now anyway. So they are now adopting a slightly more long-term approach.

I don't hear us investing in much of anything in that regard these days.

 

[Tyton]

Van Gaal decides the squad, Woodward make the business.

Naw, that's not how it works mate. This isn't 1950s. There's too much money involved now, its not a "peoples game" anymore, it's a multi million business. Every transfer is a process of negotiation, yes the staff identifies the targets and board provides the money, but there's a lot more to the process. No manager on the planet has so much power as to go to the board and say "buy me this guy, thanks bye".

And remember, all the superstar bullshit didn't start with Van Gaal. It started with Moyes. Are you going to tell me David ******* Moyes is the kind of guy who prefers working with global superstars? Bollocks, complete bollocks. This is the board pushing for marketable signings.

 

[steveorobbo]

Who cares about City's/ gung ho approach for transfers and wages anyway, there is nothing sustainable about it and they have benefited with a few PL titles but they are still utter dross in Europe. That approach is great if you have a vision of signing big players with no kind of long term plan, which it seems Woodward wants the club to be. But we will not have sustained success with it.

This whole galactico style vision that Woodward has will get us into a similar type of Real Madrid situation, spending fucktons of money but getting little reward. I'd rather us take the more Atletico approach, build a team and have a vision for the future rather than just now. That's more the United way if you ask me.

Plus realise that City are building for the future, with their youth and training complexes, all that malarky you have no doubt heard about now anyway. So they are now adopting a slightly more long-term approach.

I don't hear us investing in much of anything in that regard these days.

Your just contradicting yourself now. On one hand your saying the Glazers are business men and only care about making money. Then on the other hand your saying Woodward wants us to be the next Real Madrid signing Galactico's and is gonna spend **** loads of money.

If the Glazers wanted to make money, why would they fund Woody in his Galactico quest? Woodward answers to the Glazers. If the Glazers only cared about money and profit, they wouldnt give him that kind of money to spend.

 

[zzeezzy]

They are already making decisions because of losing money. They have let us spend £250m to get back into the Champions League, because not being in it has a negative effect on them.

At the moment, they are probably still confident of making the top 4. 5 point or whatever it is isnt really a lot. Considering we have to play those teams above and around us again aswell. It just needs to click. But even if we do make top 4, I can see LVG being sacked/mutual consent in the summer. He only has a year left by then, and no obvious improvement in 2 seasons. No reason why they should stick with him for another year, knowing he's going after that season anyway.

This £250m figure is a farce, you make it sound like it has come straight out of the Glazers pockets??? It comes from the clubs money and that figure is not right because 3/4 roughly has been recouperated through wages and transfer fees received from other players such as Di Maria. Plus think of all the money we pay on dept repayments under these clowns.

Anyway I'm not arguing over LVG because he simply isn't the right man and when you say 'waiting for something to click' what does that mean? If there literally any sign whatsoever that anything at all is working? It will not all work at once, if it was just one aspect of our play that was missing then I would understand it, but it isn't it is simply our all round game.

Also regarding them supposedly thinking that top 4 is still available, I doubt it, they are just going to wait too long to make the decision which will cost us as they did under Moyes. That season and top 4could of been salvaged if they had of acted when they should of with Moyes for example.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Steve, we still hold a healthy advantage over Italy. There's no danger of England losing the 4th place any time soon and certainly not next season.

Plus we have 6 teams left in still to their 5 so they'd have to another second half the European season like last and us not to begin threatening immediately.

 

[sunilvk7]

Who cares about City's/ gung ho approach for transfers and wages anyway, there is nothing sustainable about it and they have benefited with a few PL titles but they are still utter dross in Europe. That approach is great if you have a vision of signing big players with no kind of long term plan, which it seems Woodward wants the club to be. But we will not have sustained success with it.

Again, signing 1 or 2 big players is not galactico approach. It was just lazy word coined by media and it's surprising how many ManUtd fans have fallen for it.

Like how media blamed Woodward and ManUtd for not spending money and in few months when he did, they blamed him for not adhering to United values, giving youth a chance.

This whole galactico style vision that Woodward has will get us into a similar type of Real Madrid situation, spending fucktons of money but getting little reward. I'd rather us take the more Atletico approach, build a team and have a vision for the future rather than just now. That's more the United way if you ask me.

Your initial point about Galactico is wrong. Who are all those big names we have signed? Go on and name me few. All I can think of is Di Maria and Falcao. Don't tell it's Schweinsteiger also.

Plus realise that City are building for the future, with their youth and training complexes, all that malarky you have no doubt heard about now anyway. So they are now adopting a slightly more long-term approach.

I don't hear us investing in much of anything in that regard these days.

Chelsea also invested a lot in their academy, how many are given chances? It's all good having new shiny training complex, buildings but what's the point when they are not given chances?

There is a huge change at United and it takes time for that. There is a lot of change in academy staff also. Forget all that, how many youngsters are given chances?

 

[sunilvk7]

Naw, that's not how it works mate. This isn't 1950s. There's too much money involved now, its not a "peoples game" anymore, it's a multi million business. Every transfer is a process of negotiation, yes the staff identifies the targets and board provides the money, but there's a lot more to the process. No manager on the planet has so much power as to go to the board and say "buy me this guy, thanks bye".

And remember, all the superstar bullshit didn't start with Van Gaal. It started with Moyes. Are you going to tell me David ******* Moyes is the kind of guy who prefers working with global superstars? Bollocks, complete bollocks. This is the board pushing for marketable signings.

No. Manager gives his choices, CEOs makes the signings. if the player A is not available then move on to B. No club works with only 1 player per position. They have list of players and order.

In Italy it's different. Manager identifies the position, DoF identifies the players.

You are saying David Moyes doesn't want work with global superstars?

 

[sunilvk7]

This £250m figure is a farce, you make it sound like it has come straight out of the Glazers pockets??? It comes from the clubs money and that figure is not right because 3/4 roughly has been recouperated through wages and transfer fees received from other players such as Di Maria. Plus think of all the money we pay on dept repayments under these clowns.
.

So trimming wages and recouping money. So management is making sensible decisions.

Your points are all over the place. Like Robbo pointed out, you go on and on about Glazers and at the same time blame Woodward for taking Galactico approach.

 

[zzeezzy]

Again, signing 1 or 2 big players is not galactico approach. It was just lazy word coined by media and it's surprising how many ManUtd fans have fallen for it.

Your initial point about Galactico is wrong. Who are all those big names we have signed? Go on and name me few. All I can think of is Di Maria and Falcao. Don't tell it's Schweinsteiger also.

There is a difference between wanting to sign and actually signing them. Woodward has a galactico vision, no doubt about that, Falcao and Di Maria is example enough. But there is others who come into the equation as well.

If you watch his interview for MUTV in the summer or summer before you can tell by the way he speaks that is the vision he has. Also by reading other articles etc. it is really obvious. He wants to emulate Real Madrid and be the club who makes these massive signings just because we have the money to do so.

 

[sunilvk7]

Steve, we still hold a healthy advantage over Italy. There's no danger of England losing the 4th place any time soon and certainly not next season.

Plus we have 6 teams left in still to their 5 so they'd have to another second half the European season like last and us not to begin threatening immediately.

You need to re-read how Coefficient points work.

Next season 2011-12 points won't be considered, so 4 point advantage is gone.
This season 8 English clubs started and 2 are already eliminated. So total will be divided by 8.
Italy started with 6 and 5 are still there. So total will be divided by 6.

It's not just aggregate. It's total divided by number of teams started in Europe.

 

[sunilvk7]

There is a difference between wanting to sign and actually signing them. Woodward has a galactico vision, no doubt about that, Falcao and Di Maria is example enough. But there is others who come into the equation as well.

If you watch his interview for MUTV in the summer or summer before you can tell by the way he speaks that is the vision he has. Also by reading other articles etc. it is really obvious. He wants to emulate Real Madrid and be the club who makes these massive signings just because we have the money to do so.

Van Gaal wanted Di Maria and he even named him as the kind of winger needed. You want to deny that? How dare Woody for getting the player manager asked for.

Woodward said he wants to stop big players leaving England and wants to compete with big clubs for big players. What's wrong with that attitude?

He wants to emulate Real Madrid is just one more nonsense spouted by media and few have lapped it up.

Again who are all the Galactico signings we have made in 3 years?

 

[zzeezzy]

Van Gaal wanted Di Maria and he even named him as the kind of winger needed. You want to deny that? How dare Woody for getting the player manager asked for.

Woodward said he wants to stop big players leaving England and wants to compete with big clubs for big players. What's wrong with that attitude?

He wants to emulate Real Madrid is just one more nonsense spouted by media and few have lapped it up.

Again who are all the Galactico signings we have made in 3 years?

Two years you mean, and we have splashed about money like no mans business and made big signings as already mentioned. Also why are you forgetting Juan Mata? That at the time was very much a galactico signing as well.

So in 4 windows he has signed 3 galactico's technically, but you could count Schweinsteiger who we got at a good price admittedly but still counts. Also remember all the Fabregas courting.

 

[Equilibrio]

Louis Van Gone....seriously, I've had enough, he tries to defend, attack loses all sting; he tries attack, defence collapses, what's the problem here??Why haven't the Glazers sacked him yet?6 wins in 21 games, how is that anywhere close to acceptable?The only reason I think they haven't pulled the trigger yet is that there is no good manager to replace him, while I admire Mou a lot, he is a more of a instant success manager than a sustained success manager, he doesn't give youth a chance much, which is why I feel he won't fit well here, it's just not the United way.At this point I'd gladly take Steve McLaren as our manager...(he was fergie's No.2 at one point and so will know all about the United way, even Quieroz...)

 

[sunilvk7]

Two summers you mean, and we have splashed about money like no mans business and made big signings as already mentioned. Also why are you forgetting Juan Mata? That at the time was very much a galactico signing as well.

So in 4 windows he has signed 3 galactico's technically, but you could count Schweinsteiger who we got at a good price admittedly but still counts.

3 summers. As much as you want to forget it Moyes first season was also with Woodward.

Yeah forgot Juan Mata. That's 4 big name signings in 5 transfer windows. Big deal.

You talk about we spent money like no mans business but you fail to see the context. Intentional? I'm sure it's intentional. How many players have left United in the last 2 years? How many replacements do we need to sign? Only 5 or 6 players are left from Fergie squad, so to replace them you have spend money.

Wait, Glazers allowed United to spend money. I thought they are the root of all evil.