The Manchester United Thread
- Thread starter MisterStubbs
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Yes we can, with the way we're playing any Championship team is going to be a challenge.
Even if we do lose, what will do we about it? **** all as always. Lets just waste this whole season before making a decision on this ****** manager. It really is disgraceful mate.
Scouseinthehouse
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Maybe he has pictures of Ed or the Glaziers in a very compromising position that's his safeguard?
.Maybe he has pictures of Ed or the Glaziers in a very compromising position that's his safeguard?
LVG probably showing them his big balls as we speak, can't think what else is keeping him in the job.
Yeah, this is a true story. AZ is maybe the most amazing thing Van Gaal ever did, really.
Eredevise is totally dominated by PSV, Ajax or Feyenord. They have something like 95% of all champion titles. AZ was 11th the season before, Van Gaal resigned. Players begged him to stay, and he eventually gave it another go.
And next year, they ******* stormed the place. 28 games without losing. 11 clean sheets in a row. Least goals conceded. Won the league with massive point advantage and best goal difference.
The story goes, Sergio Romero made a mistake in one game that cost the team a goal. Poor guy couldn't cope with the fact that he disappointed Van Gaal and had some sort of mental breakdown. He went apeshit punching the walls in the dressing room. Broke several bones in his hand before people could calm him down and he was out for the rest of the season.
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Just imagine if Van Gaal was in this position at Real Madrid.... he would be getting ****** hung up to dry by the fans and wouldn't be able to seen out on his own.
When you think about it we are really still head and shoulders (in a bad way) above other elite clubs in terms of how forgiving we are to managers and how long we give them.
Benitez had way better results than Van Gaal and still got sacked. If you go one game without a goal for Real Madrid you're questioned and ridiculed. If you have as many goalless games as we have had this season you'll be lucky if you're not castrated on the pitch by the fans.
When you think about it we are really still head and shoulders (in a bad way) above other elite clubs in terms of how forgiving we are to managers and how long we give them.
Benitez had way better results than Van Gaal and still got sacked. If you go one game without a goal for Real Madrid you're questioned and ridiculed. If you have as many goalless games as we have had this season you'll be lucky if you're not castrated on the pitch by the fans.
Barney @Red News @barneyrednewsEd is meeting some sponsors today in Mayfair. #priorities
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This sums it all up, Ed TheGlazerMoneyMan Woodward grabbing another fecking sponsor, ****** **** this guy is going to make me seriously ill if I have to put up with much more of him.
This is why you need a ******* footballing knowledgable person to run the football associated aspect of the club then Woodward to his hearts content can do that commercial **** all day long, that he specializes in.
Borussia Dortmund:
Managing Director of Borussia Geschäftsführungs-GmbH: Hans-Joachim Watzke.
Segment director for Sport: Michael Zorc.
Organisation und Management / BVB auf einen Blick / BVB Aktie
Atletico Madrid:
Chairman Club Atlético de Madrid: Enrique Cerezo Torres.
General Director of Football: Clemente Villaverde.
Sporting Director: José Luis Pérez Caminero.
Club Atlético de Madrid - Organizational chart
Juventus:
Chairman Football Club S.p.A: Andrea Agnelli.
Vice Chairman - Pavel Nedvěd.
CEO and General Manager for Sport Area: Giuseppe Marotta.
Sporting Director - Fabio Paratici.
http://www.juventus.com/en/club/inv...ard-of-directors-and-control-bodies/index.php
Happy Birthday, Fabio! - Juventus.com
Bayern Munich:
Executive Board Chairman: Karl-Heinz Rummenigge.
Executive Board Member (Sport segment) - Matthias Sammer.
Members - FC Bayern München AG
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wkdsoul
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Ed is meeting some sponsors today in Mayfair. #priorities
--------------------
This sums it all up, Ed TheGlazerMoneyMan Woodward grabbing another fecking sponsor, ****** **** this guy is going to make me seriously ill if I have to put up with much more of him.
This is why you need a ******* footballing knowledgable person to run the football associated aspect of the club then Woodward to his hearts content can do that commercial **** all day long, that he specializes in.
Borussia Dortmund:
Managing Director of Borussia Geschäftsführungs-GmbH: Hans-Joachim Watzke.
Segment director for Sport: Michael Zorc.
Organisation und Management / BVB auf einen Blick / BVB Aktie
Atletico Madrid:
Chairman Club Atlético de Madrid: Enrique Cerezo Torres.
General Director of Football: Clemente Villaverde.
Sporting Director: José Luis Pérez Caminero.
Club Atlético de Madrid - Organizational chart
Juventus:
Chairman Football Club S.p.A: Andrea Agnelli.
Vice Chairman - Pavel Nedvěd.
CEO and General Manager for Sport Area: Giuseppe Marotta.
Sporting Director - Fabio Paratici.
http://www.juventus.com/en/club/inv...ard-of-directors-and-control-bodies/index.php
Happy Birthday, Fabio! - Juventus.com
Bayern Munich:
Executive Board Chairman: Karl-Heinz Rummenigge.
Executive Board Member (Sport segment) - Matthias Sammer.
Members - FC Bayern München AG
So you're raging he's at a meeting doing the stuff, you want him to do?
steveorobbo
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Ed is meeting some sponsors today in Mayfair. #priorities
--------------------
This sums it all up, Ed TheGlazerMoneyMan Woodward grabbing another fecking sponsor, ****** **** this guy is going to make me seriously ill if I have to put up with much more of him.
This is why you need a ******* footballing knowledgable person to run the football associated aspect of the club then Woodward to his hearts content can do that commercial **** all day long, that he specializes in.
Borussia Dortmund:
Managing Director of Borussia Geschäftsführungs-GmbH: Hans-Joachim Watzke.
Segment director for Sport: Michael Zorc.
Organisation und Management / BVB auf einen Blick / BVB Aktie
Atletico Madrid:
Chairman Club Atlético de Madrid: Enrique Cerezo Torres.
General Director of Football: Clemente Villaverde.
Sporting Director: José Luis Pérez Caminero.
Club Atlético de Madrid - Organizational chart
Juventus:
Chairman Football Club S.p.A: Andrea Agnelli.
Vice Chairman - Pavel Nedvěd.
CEO and General Manager for Sport Area: Giuseppe Marotta.
Sporting Director - Fabio Paratici.
http://www.juventus.com/en/club/inv...ard-of-directors-and-control-bodies/index.php
Happy Birthday, Fabio! - Juventus.com
Bayern Munich:
Executive Board Chairman: Karl-Heinz Rummenigge.
Executive Board Member (Sport segment) - Matthias Sammer.
Members - FC Bayern München AG
I dont see how a structure like that would help. Its just another person/obstacle.
At the moment we have the scouting team that report to LVG about potential targets (or LVG will go to the head scout regarding a target and they scout), LVG will then go to Woodward about the target. Woodward then gets the nod from the Glazers to go for the target.
As is it now, the manager has the say on which players HE wants to sign.
If we got a DoF, its just another step. Scouts>Head Scout>LVG>DoF>Woodward>Glazer.
The DoF would still have to answer to Woodward to get the nod from the Glazers. So what would the DoF actually offer that isnt already covered by the head scout?
Well yes because he is ignoring the thing he should really be doing.
My main point is that this role of a man doing both sides of things just doesn't work, his time must be all over the place.
If you look at all well managed clubs which I listed in that post they all have a chain of work which relates to the footballing side of things being run by guys associated with football and the commercial side of things is ran by totally different people who specialise in that.
It really doesn't work when you start crossing them over making people not only work in multiple jobs but also stuff they don't specialise in. In the modern day game especially where it is has become so much bigger commercially.
If it works for better managed clubs that I listed than us in terms of football why not us?
Basically what it does is cuts out people like Woodward from getting involved in making football associated decisions when he doesn't specialise in. Which is only a good thing, trust me.
If you think about it logically it makes sense, plus we're not talking about transfers which is a whole different ball game anyway. So the scouts don't come into this aspect.
Scouseinthehouse
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One of our biggest problems on acquisitions with the whole 'committee' garbage with Rodgers was Ayre and Gordon, two great businessmen but not football men, having a major say in who we targeted and who was bought. People like that should only be involved on the financial side the back end.
Not saying Woodward is part of the evaluation process at Utd. I wouldn't know. But your overall point as regards proper structure is bang on.
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It's common sense really, especially in the modern game where everything is much bigger. If all these mighty foreign clubs are doing it there is clear reason enough.
I think Atletico and Dortmund are two of the clubs I admire the most in terms of the way they are run and it's easy to see where we are going wrong when you look at it logically. Unfortunately though Glazers and logic is another matter, considering the club have neglected funding on the youth system for a long time (then in comparison look at the likes of Chelsea and City are spending/doing in that regard last few years) I can't see them doing anything in this regard either any time soon.
This club is ran primarily by commercially driven people, which is showing, we are doing very well in terms of that aspect but the footballing side of things has gone to the pits.
Dude. Dude. What the ****.
I get that you're emotional and all.
But did you just give Real Madrid as an example of healthy way of running the club?
wkdsoul
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Which is?
Has LVG asked for anyone? are you selling anyone? I don't think a restructure is needed when you're commercial side is the biggest in the world pretty much, and nearly 70% of the squad were just sold and replaced without much hassle.
You have a football person running the football aspects already, LVG. Your issues are on the pitch.
razielioux
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Legend Incredible
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Rather than giggs or mourinho, why not try Warren joyce? One of our own who fully understands the clubs traditions and most importantly, is more experienced than giggs
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Holy ****, we actually agree on something!
Zzezzy is right though. When you have the pull and power of a global juggernaut, letting one man be responsible for so much is just stupid. There's a reason why other clubs don't use that structure, why no competitive business still uses that structure and why in general clubs are splitting roles more and more now. Finding someone who is a worldclass businessman AND a worldclass football expert is kinda hard. Finding someone for each of those roles is relatively easy though, and when you **** out absurd amounts of money every day like United do, the price of employing 2 specialists is negligible. It's done wonders for the world of management and coaching, why not apply it to the way the club is run off the pitch as well?
steveorobbo
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So we need a DoF purely to handle transfer/contract negotiations?
Ed Woodward handles contract negotiations on a daily basis. Albeit on the commercial side, and has got us some fantastic deals. So I dont think he's inept at negotiating, which I think is what your trying to say on the footballing side of things. A deal is a deal whether that would be for a player or a commercial contract. Even from a business perspective, you still have to weigh up the pro's and con's of signing a pleyer for x ammount.
I dont think anybody can argue at the prices we have paid for players, considering their ages and potential. Also taking into account any sell on value. The only one that I could point out being bad is Fellaini. It was a panic buy at the end of the window, and Moyes just wanted a player he works well with and to stamp his authority on the squad.
Darmian - £12.7m - Italian international. Can play anywhere across the back 4. Still only 26 so sell on value is still there. Could maybe even make a profit.
Schweinsteiger - £6m-£14m (depending on source) - German world cup winner. Experienced player to organise the midfield. Absolute bargain at £6m (if that is to be believed). Even at £14m, his experience is worth that alone. Signed at 30, so potentially a good 4 years out of him if he plays a Carrick type role. No sell on value but he's there purely to add experience.
Schneiderlin - £25m - Signed at 25 years old. So still a good 6/7 years in him. Also great sell on value if need be. Best defensive midfielder in the league 2 years running (aside from Matic last season). Been in English football a long time and thrived on moving up the leagues. £25m for one of the leagues best in his position, and the amount of years we could potentially get from him is a fantastic deal.
Martial - £36m-£60m - A lot to pay for a youngster, but obviously has a lot of talent there. Could go either way, but we are yet to see the best of him because of the teams style and poor form. Most would agree after what we have seen from him in parts, he could well go to the top bracket of footballers. Our hand was forced on him due to Monaco's CL exit. The plan was end of the season but had to jump in otherwise we would have had a lot of competition next season. Due to the rising transfer market, could easily recoup what we paid in 3-4 years time if need be.
Memphis - £25m - See Martial. Not a lot of difference.
Shaw - £27m - Again, like Martial and Memphis, had to act fast because of interest of Chelsea and others. Should be Englands first choice left back for the next 10 years. Absolute bargain considering the years we'll have him for (all being well after injury). Even if we needed to sell him there is massive resale value on him. Again due to the rising market, and the premium on English players, we could easily recoup what we paid in 3-4 years.
Herrera - £29m - You could argue that the price is a bit steep here, but when he plays and we see what he can do, once a manager comes in that will play him and use him correctly, that price could easily look like a bargain. Still a decent resale value aswell.
Blind - £13.8m - Probably paid a bit too much here, but that was always likely after Hollands WC showing. Has already proved very versatile and is a fantastic squad player to have.
Rojo - £16m - See Blind. Pretty much in the same boat. Unlucky with shoulder injuries. Again due to the rising market, and their ages, both have decent resale value if they dont work out in a few years.
None of the deals have been particularly bad. Most are good deals, with most likely a little loss or even little profit if we came to sell given the market. The only question mark is over how much we have sold players for. Hernandez being the main one. But you can make a case for most of the others. RVP was past it and on a very high wage. Probably had to take what we could just to get him off the books. Same for Nani after Moyes giving him a new 5year contract.
One of the biggest reasons why we are where we are is the fact we let so many decent squad players go and never replaced them. That isnt Woodwards fault. Its LVG's. He likes to work with a smaller squad. Which when it works is probably great, but he wasnt counting on the absolute **** storm of injuries we have had in the last 2 years. He knows our defense isnt good enough when its down to the bare bones. So he sets us up to be hard to beat. When we open up like we did against Newcastle we get ripped apart.
After the new year last season, when we started to recover from all the injuries, we went on a decent run. Because we was pretty much full strength, we could open up a bit more. We even started the season OK with Darmian slotting straight in and Shaw finding his form after working hard in the summer. Since Shaw broke his leg, the injuries have been terrible and mostly to the defense. So we have had to compact again and make ourselves hard to beat. Which means keeping it tight and defending from the front. We have seen what happens when we open up.
You can blame LVG for stripping the squad and leaving us **** all when the injuries strike. But its a catch 22 again. If we keep the squad players incase of injuries, the young players are pushed further down the pecking order. So he got rid and relied on the youth to step in here and there. Which would be perfect if it wasnt for all the injuries. A player coming in now and again for a few games is great, but when you have to put 4 or 5 of them in for a couple of months instead of a couple of games, it was always likely to be hard.
Ed Woodward handles contract negotiations on a daily basis. Albeit on the commercial side, and has got us some fantastic deals. So I dont think he's inept at negotiating, which I think is what your trying to say on the footballing side of things. A deal is a deal whether that would be for a player or a commercial contract. Even from a business perspective, you still have to weigh up the pro's and con's of signing a pleyer for x ammount.
I dont think anybody can argue at the prices we have paid for players, considering their ages and potential. Also taking into account any sell on value. The only one that I could point out being bad is Fellaini. It was a panic buy at the end of the window, and Moyes just wanted a player he works well with and to stamp his authority on the squad.
Darmian - £12.7m - Italian international. Can play anywhere across the back 4. Still only 26 so sell on value is still there. Could maybe even make a profit.
Schweinsteiger - £6m-£14m (depending on source) - German world cup winner. Experienced player to organise the midfield. Absolute bargain at £6m (if that is to be believed). Even at £14m, his experience is worth that alone. Signed at 30, so potentially a good 4 years out of him if he plays a Carrick type role. No sell on value but he's there purely to add experience.
Schneiderlin - £25m - Signed at 25 years old. So still a good 6/7 years in him. Also great sell on value if need be. Best defensive midfielder in the league 2 years running (aside from Matic last season). Been in English football a long time and thrived on moving up the leagues. £25m for one of the leagues best in his position, and the amount of years we could potentially get from him is a fantastic deal.
Martial - £36m-£60m - A lot to pay for a youngster, but obviously has a lot of talent there. Could go either way, but we are yet to see the best of him because of the teams style and poor form. Most would agree after what we have seen from him in parts, he could well go to the top bracket of footballers. Our hand was forced on him due to Monaco's CL exit. The plan was end of the season but had to jump in otherwise we would have had a lot of competition next season. Due to the rising transfer market, could easily recoup what we paid in 3-4 years time if need be.
Memphis - £25m - See Martial. Not a lot of difference.
Shaw - £27m - Again, like Martial and Memphis, had to act fast because of interest of Chelsea and others. Should be Englands first choice left back for the next 10 years. Absolute bargain considering the years we'll have him for (all being well after injury). Even if we needed to sell him there is massive resale value on him. Again due to the rising market, and the premium on English players, we could easily recoup what we paid in 3-4 years.
Herrera - £29m - You could argue that the price is a bit steep here, but when he plays and we see what he can do, once a manager comes in that will play him and use him correctly, that price could easily look like a bargain. Still a decent resale value aswell.
Blind - £13.8m - Probably paid a bit too much here, but that was always likely after Hollands WC showing. Has already proved very versatile and is a fantastic squad player to have.
Rojo - £16m - See Blind. Pretty much in the same boat. Unlucky with shoulder injuries. Again due to the rising market, and their ages, both have decent resale value if they dont work out in a few years.
None of the deals have been particularly bad. Most are good deals, with most likely a little loss or even little profit if we came to sell given the market. The only question mark is over how much we have sold players for. Hernandez being the main one. But you can make a case for most of the others. RVP was past it and on a very high wage. Probably had to take what we could just to get him off the books. Same for Nani after Moyes giving him a new 5year contract.
One of the biggest reasons why we are where we are is the fact we let so many decent squad players go and never replaced them. That isnt Woodwards fault. Its LVG's. He likes to work with a smaller squad. Which when it works is probably great, but he wasnt counting on the absolute **** storm of injuries we have had in the last 2 years. He knows our defense isnt good enough when its down to the bare bones. So he sets us up to be hard to beat. When we open up like we did against Newcastle we get ripped apart.
After the new year last season, when we started to recover from all the injuries, we went on a decent run. Because we was pretty much full strength, we could open up a bit more. We even started the season OK with Darmian slotting straight in and Shaw finding his form after working hard in the summer. Since Shaw broke his leg, the injuries have been terrible and mostly to the defense. So we have had to compact again and make ourselves hard to beat. Which means keeping it tight and defending from the front. We have seen what happens when we open up.
You can blame LVG for stripping the squad and leaving us **** all when the injuries strike. But its a catch 22 again. If we keep the squad players incase of injuries, the young players are pushed further down the pecking order. So he got rid and relied on the youth to step in here and there. Which would be perfect if it wasnt for all the injuries. A player coming in now and again for a few games is great, but when you have to put 4 or 5 of them in for a couple of months instead of a couple of games, it was always likely to be hard.