Total Football: Tic-Tac Magick (FM12)

jibbers said:
Yes, that IS total football. Have you even watched any of their games? I have all of Hollands WC matches from 74 and 58 games of Ajax between 71-73, so please....

It doesn't matter why they were invented, point is that Total football is not Barcelona's football. The main trait about Total football was the interchanging of positions ffs. Barcelona keep possession until gaps open up. Ajax used a lot of width and scored most of their goals from Crosses from the ingers and took a lot of shots from outside the box ffs. They reached the opposition goal in like 4-5 passes. Barcelona's build up takes like 15+ passes in the build up. Ajax and Holland were far more direct and plaayed at a much quicker tempo ffs. Barcelona don't play total football. Absolute rubbish.

O and there was offside when Ajax came, they were the first team yo use a high defensive line *facepalm*

Barcas system is desingned to breakdown Zonal Marking? ROFFFFFFFl

WTF am i reading. Barcelonas system is using space and off the ball movement and using the ball movement to tire opponents. Ajax were completely different from BArcelona ffs. The only principles they share is what they do without the ball. What they did on the ball was completely different.
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Why on earth are you being so aggressive?
 
Shiraz said:
Why on earth are you being so aggressive?
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I just find it annoying when people use the world total football incorrectly. People ned to go and watch the games that Ajax and Holland played. There's some massive misconception on this forum that Total football = keeping posssession.
 
jibbers said:
I just find it annoying when people use the world total football incorrectly. People ned to go and watch the games that Ajax and Holland played. There's some massive misconception on this forum that Total football = keeping posssession.
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jibbers, is it possible for u to make a real total football tactic?
 
Perhaps you should give him a break, with the match engine i imagine it'd be near impossible to make a real total football tactic. Yes there are misconceptions about it but i'd actually love to see someone make a direct emulation of actual total football.
 
Yuzo jr said:
jibbers, is it possible for u to make a real total football tactic?
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It's very difficult to make Total football, **** in todays game total football can't be really played tbh. I mean the concepts are in modern football but to actually play it would be suicidal.

CraigWL said:
Perhaps you should give him a break, with the match engine i imagine it'd be near impossible to make a real total football tactic. Yes there are misconceptions about it but i'd actually love to see someone make a direct emulation of actual total football.
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Yea, but he's arguing with me that Barcelona play total football when they don't. They have concepts but they don't play total football. There are major differences, obviously influenced by the change in tactics and offside rules.

This is the closest I have seen it being Emulated in FM

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/foot...ct-totaal-voetbal-dutch-emulation-tactic.html

It has a lot of problems but it is as good as we'll get imo. I'm still trying to tweak it because the only team that can use it in this game is Barcelona really, and even they struggle beacuse you have to be quite physicl. Getting a team that has all the necessary traits is nigh on impossible, except you use your youth team in a top club and create players specifically for it.
 
CraigWL said:
Perhaps you should give him a break, with the match engine i imagine it'd be near impossible to make a real total football tactic. Yes there are misconceptions about it but i'd actually love to see someone make a direct emulation of actual total football.
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I think so too. Even if you made all players swap position with each other, you still wouldn't get the same effect whereby players drop into positions to cover the space created by another player - or it wouldn't be fluid enough, I don't think.

Also, the ME takes into consideration the player's natural position and this affects the performance of a player. They may be able to cope fairly well in a position which they can't play in, but I don't think they would perform to the best of their potential. I think it would be inefficient.

It would be interesting to try it though.
 
jibbers said:
It's very difficult to make Total football, **** in todays game total football can't be really played tbh. I mean the concepts are in modern football but to actually play it would be suicidal.



Yea, but he's arguing with me that Barcelona play total football when they don't. They have concepts but they don't play total football. There are major differences, obviously influenced by the change in tactics and offside rules.

This is the closest I have seen it being Emulated in FM

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/foot...ct-totaal-voetbal-dutch-emulation-tactic.html

It has a lot of problems but it is as good as we'll get imo. I'm still trying to tweak it because the only team that can use it in this game is Barcelona really, and even they struggle beacuse you have to be quite physicl. Getting a team that has all the necessary traits is nigh on impossible, except you use your youth team in a top club and create players specifically for it.
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I'm not arguing :P You're right.

It's rare you see teams genuinely man mark in the modern game, as it tends to be zonal marking, except for maybe CBs and a DM occasionally. Tiki-Taka breaks zonal marking by flooding the midfield and outnumbering players, the unit then moves up, down, left and right.

Whenever I create a tactic I always look at the two fundamental principles of a football team:
1) What they do with the ball
2) What they do without the ball

With the ball they maintain possession and probe for passes into space.

Without the ball they defend like a basketball team, pressuring the opposition and forcing mistakes which result in set pieces, wasteful balls or an interception. Even in FM it's hard to emulate this closing down pattern, as players tend not to close down in groups. The closest I can get is to play with easy tackling and very high closing down. I often see the majority of opposition passes will be long balls out of defence, due to the defenders panicking. My high defensive line means the centre backs pick off these balls and recycle possession back to the midfield, and so the process of attack begins.

I think the key to building good tactics is all about the transition period between the two phases of play:
1) When the team loses the ball, how do they react to win it back.
2) When the team wins the ball, how do they then recycle this back into attack.

Football is really just a huge cycle of play - people just complicate it too much :P
 
hi mate,what his the match prep...team work...attacking movement...defensive...etc!!!
 
MAGiCK FOOTBALL said:
Lol...ok so the RB doesn't interchange with the STC which is what Ajax did before ZONAL MARKING came on the scene...before OFFSIDE became a rule of the game. But the Ajax system was designed and implemented to break down MAN MARKING, whereas the Barcelona system is designed to breakdown ZONAL MARKING.

Why can't people understand the evolution of football....FACE PALM!!!!
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MAGiCK FOOTBALL said:
I'm not arguing :P You're right.

It's rare you see teams genuinely man mark in the modern game, as it tends to be zonal marking, except for maybe CBs and a DM occasionally. Tiki-Taka breaks zonal marking by flooding the midfield and outnumbering players, the unit then moves up, down, left and right.

Whenever I create a tactic I always look at the two fundamental principles of a football team:
1) What they do with the ball
2) What they do without the ball

With the ball they maintain possession and probe for passes into space.

Without the ball they defend like a basketball team, pressuring the opposition and forcing mistakes which result in set pieces, wasteful balls or an interception. Even in FM it's hard to emulate this closing down pattern, as players tend not to close down in groups. The closest I can get is to play with easy tackling and very high closing down. I often see the majority of opposition passes will be long balls out of defence, due to the defenders panicking. My high defensive line means the centre backs pick off these balls and recycle possession back to the midfield, and so the process of attack begins.

I think the key to building good tactics is all about the transition period between the two phases of play:
1) When the team loses the ball, how do they react to win it back.
2) When the team wins the ball, how do they then recycle this back into attack.

Football is really just a huge cycle of play - people just complicate it too much :P
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Not possible to recreate the Dutch machine because the current outdated Match Engine does not allow more than two players to swap positions, so you can not include a 3 player to use the swap cycle.

I can make a few players swap positions: the two forwards change positions with the wingers but I can not add a 3rd player to the rotation to make the whole wing swap positions.
 
Darkatdawn said:
Not possible to recreate the Dutch machine because the current outdated Match Engine does not allow more than two players to swap positions, so you can not include a 3 player to use the swap cycle.

I can make a few players swap positions: the two forwards change positions with the wingers but I can not add a 3rd player to the rotation to make the whole wing swap positions.
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This is one of the main problems. I want to have a 4-2-3-1 with my 3 attacking midfielders all rotating, but this is not possible (well, properly.) I hope that this is something that is looked at because IRL a lot of teams DO have 3 players swapping positions.

The best I've been able to do is the striker swapping with the AMC, and then the 'wingers' swapping in a 4-2-3-1, but if I don't have an AMC that can play striker, and a striker that can play AMC it's pretty pointless because they just don't play anywhere near as well as they would in their actual positions.
 
ChrisBird said:
This is one of the main problems. I want to have a 4-2-3-1 with my 3 attacking midfielders all rotating, but this is not possible (well, properly.) I hope that this is something that is looked at because IRL a lot of teams DO have 3 players swapping positions.

The best I've been able to do is the striker swapping with the AMC, and then the 'wingers' swapping in a 4-2-3-1, but if I don't have an AMC that can play striker, and a striker that can play AMC it's pretty pointless because they just don't play anywhere near as well as they would in their actual positions.
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Yeah, I'd like to see this in the game. It would be nice to rotate the front three in a 4-3-3 tactic.
 
I have to say : "wow ! wonderful, it's like tiki-taka". I know why you call it Tic-Tac
P/S : I'm using it on Everton, rule ball even opposite : MU, Chels, Liverpool, MC :))
 
I cant download it, it says internet explorer has stopped working
 
FINALLY, A TIKA-TAKA TACTIC THAT WORKS!!!

This worked brilliantly on my Spurs save. Thank you!
 
I tried to make tika taka tactic and its just awesome :

View attachment 254249

More 900 passes and Xavi made 150 passes before his injury
 
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