Underrated Dutch Talents

[eriksen8]

I've been playing fm for some years now and I always get the feeling Dutch players and talents are underrated. When you take a look at all the greats the Dutch football academy has brought forward, with only 16 million Dutch residents, you HAVE to conclude this academy is one of the better ones in the world. This can also be seen by just looking at the u17, u19, etc squads. I always assumed that Dutch talents/players got underrated because of the lack of exposure. But now with the introduction of last years Next-Gen series at least
the talents should be properly rated. This youth CL makes it very easy to spot the future top players because you can immediately see which playes are 10 steps ahead of their competition. Some players are just operating on a different level. Sterling(liverpool), Dongou(Barcelona), Fischer(Ajax) are just some of these players. Raheem Sterling, one of FM 12 greatest talents, was rated properly (in my opinion). Still his team lost to a superbly playing victor fischer. Fischer scored 3 goals and had 2 assists in this game. In the match against Barcelona he also produced 3 goals. Ajax reached last years Next-Gen finale (they should have been the champions). They won the semi final with 0-6 against liverpool (away) and the quarter final against Barcalona with 0-3 (away). The Ajax team of youngsters were the best team in the tournament and yet, none of these players are truly great talents in fm 12 as Sterling. Not even close. So you would assume this would be fixed in fm 13, you would assume the ajax youth would get a boost. Especially since they started the new Next-Gen campaign in a similar goals scoring fashion as last year. The scary part is that the Feyenoord youth has performed even better
than the ajax youth the last couple of years. And these players were also not AMAZING wonderkids. Felipe gutierez was, and he can't even get a place in the starting 11 for FC Twente.

The thing that buggs me the most is the fact that especially English talents are SO highly overrated. The English national squad isn't really performing and this is because of the lack of Brittish talent. Don't get me wrong, there are some great players like terry, lampard, joe hart, ferdinand, welback, rooney. But none of these players have the pure technical/creative class of let's say David Silva, Rafael Van Der Vaart, Diego, etc. Furthermore when looking at the Top teams in the PL, the players that really give a team that rare creative spark are always the foreign players. Some examples are Silva, Dembele, Van Persie, Hazard, Nasri, Kagawa, etc. Still in every FM there seem to be English wonderkids that have a high potential for those technical/creative attributes. (Obviously I'm making some generalization, seeing as Ramsey is a creative and technically gifted player).

For some youth football fanatics; Google/youtube Anass Achabar, MEmphis Depay, Ouasim Bouy, Tony Vilhena, Victor Fischer, Mitchell Dijks, Stefano Denswil, Ricardo Kishna, Lucas Andersen, Locadia, Zakaria Baccali, Kyle Ebicilio, Karim Rekik, Jethro Willems, Ricardo van Rhijn, Bruno Martins Indi, Adam Maher, Jordy Clasie.
These are just some underrated(not all are) and relatively unknown gems that have a bright future, I would like to see their rating a bit higher next year around.

I am obviously biased, but I was just wondering if there are people who have a similar opinion. Looking forward to your responses.

- A Dutch Ajax fan 8-|

 

[fuelledbypassion]

Seems a reasonable complaint given the logic. When you look at the players that Holland has produced in the past, it's clear that they are one of the european powerhouses, yet their youngsters are often underrated. I also find that the dutch produce less talented regens than the likes of England, Italy, Spain, France and Germany, when realistically they should probably be on par.

 

[Mike.]

I've been playing fm for some years now and I always get the feeling Dutch players and talents are underrated. When you take a look at all the greats the Dutch football academy has brought forward, with only 16 million Dutch residents, you HAVE to conclude this academy is one of the better ones in the world. This can also be seen by just looking at the u17, u19, etc squads. I always assumed that Dutch talents/players got underrated because of the lack of exposure. But now with the introduction of last years Next-Gen series at least
the talents should be properly rated. This youth CL makes it very easy to spot the future top players because you can immediately see which playes are 10 steps ahead of their competition. Some players are just operating on a different level. Sterling(liverpool), Dongou(Barcelona), Fischer(Ajax) are just some of these players. Raheem Sterling, one of FM 12 greatest talents, was rated properly (in my opinion). Still his team lost to a superbly playing victor fischer. Fischer scored 3 goals and had 2 assists in this game. In the match against Barcelona he also produced 3 goals. Ajax reached last years Next-Gen finale (they should have been the champions). They won the semi final with 0-3 against liverpool (away) and the quarter final against Barcalona with 0-3 (away). The Ajax team of youngsters were the best team in the tournament and yet, none of these players are truly great talents in fm 12 as Sterling. Not even close. So you would assume this would be fixed in fm 13, you would assume the ajax youth would get a boost. Especially since they started the new Next-Gen campaign in a similar goals scoring fashion as last year. The scary part is that the Feyenoord youth has performed even better
than the ajax youth the last couple of years. And these players were also not AMAZING wonderkids. Felipe gutierez was, and he can't even get a place in the starting 11 for FC Twente.

The thing that buggs me the most is the fact that especially English talents are SO highly overrated. The English national squad isn't really performing and this is because of the lack of Brittish talent. Don't get me wrong, there are some great players like terry, lampard, joe hart, ferdinand, welback, rooney. But none of these players have the pure technical/creative class of let's say David Silva, Rafael Van Der Vaart, Diego, etc. Furthermore when looking at the Top teams in the PL, the players that really give a team that rare creative spark are always the foreign players. Some examples are Silva, Dembele, Van Persie, Hazard, Nasri, Kagawa, etc. Still in every FM there seem to be English wonderkids that have a high potential for those technical/creative attributes. (Obviously I'm making some generalization, seeing as Ramsey is a creative and technically gifted player).

For some youth football fanatics; Google/youtube Anass Achabar, MEmphis Depay, Ouasim Bouy, Tony Vilhena, Victor Fischer, Mitchell Dijks, Stefano Denswil, Ricardo Kishna, Lucas Andersen, Locadia, Zakaria Baccali, Kyle Ebicilio, Karim Rekik, Jethro Willems, Ricardo van Rhijn, Bruno Martins Indi, Adam Maher, Jordy Clasie.
These are just some underrated(not all are) and relatively unknown gems that have a bright future, I would like to see their rating a bit higher next year around.

I am obviously biased, but I was just wondering if there are people who have a similar opinion. Looking forward to your responses.

- A Dutch Ajax fan 8-|

You make some decent points, but you are also misunderstanding how players are rated.

Also the creative spark isnt quite true, when you look at United. That has almost exclusively been the domain of the domestic players, and Scholes in particular.

Scoring 3 goals in next gen will not get you ratings. and doesnt make you better off than other player. its done over a consierable period of games.

 

[Mike.]

Seems a reasonable complaint given the logic. When you look at the players that Holland has produced in the past, it's clear that they are one of the european powerhouses, yet their youngsters are often underrated. I also find that the dutch produce less talented regens than the likes of England, Italy, Spain, France and Germany, when realistically they should probably be on par.

Not sure the dutch talent has been coming up like it has done in the past, so in many ways its fairly reflected, but perhaps that will change.

Also, There is no way anyone can argue Rooney does not have technical class right up there with the best

 

[benloveschelsea]

Leroy Fer!!!!!!

 

[fuelledbypassion]

Not sure the dutch talent has been coming up like it has done in the past, so in many ways its fairly reflected, but perhaps that will change.

Also, There is no way anyone can argue Rooney does not have technical class right up there with the best

But the Ajax academy in particular has been responsible for producing the generation of Van Der Sar, Seedorf, Davids, De Boer, Bergkamp, Kluivert etc and then the following era of Van Der Vaart, Sneijder, De Jong, Heitinga, Pienaar etc. Surely when their youngsters are reaching finals and thrashing Barcelona on the way, you would expect better than currently comes through that academy?

 

[Mike.]

But the Ajax academy in particular has been responsible for producing the generation of Van Der Sar, Seedorf, Davids, De Boer, Bergkamp, Kluivert etc and then the following era of Van Der Vaart, Sneijder, De Jong, Heitinga, Pienaar etc. Surely when their youngsters are reaching finals and thrashing Barcelona on the way, you would expect better than currently comes through that academy?

Thats just it, the first lot has all retired, and the second lot are 28+, where is the next lot, hence the lower rating previously. Not saying it wont change for FM13, but you can see why it was lower.

 

[fuelledbypassion]

Thats just it, the first lot has all retired, and the second lot are 28+, where is the next lot, hence the lower rating previously. Not saying it wont change for FM13, but you can see why it was lower.

I see what you mean, but they are still producing players and were ranked no.1 in the world in august 2011 (although the ranking system is a bit of a joke).

 

[eriksen8]

@mike
You name Paul Scholes, the Paul Scholes United had to bring back after he retired. I think this only reinforces my earlier claim that there aren't many technically gifted players coming through in England.
My point is, with 50 million residents it's extremely poor whats coming through(or am I overestimating the English population). The Spanish have iniesta xavi, the Germans Ozil Gotze and I feel as if you SHOULD be able to do better. Do you agree or not?

Concerning Fischer(and other Ajax Academy talents), I DO understand scoring 3 goals doesn't get you high ratings. That would be ridiculous. I think you misunderstood my point. These players were underrated. And I first claimed the low ratings might have been due to the fact that youngsters playing in Holland are less of a hype to the rest of the world and they get less exposure. These goals and assists should undo this. And I do expect him to have a great potential in fm 13. Not only because of his Next-Gen matches, some people find him to be an even greater talent than Eriksen. He just had a solid season, and that promisses him to be a great player in the future.

The only reason I brought up the NextGen, is to underline the fact that there should be a few amasing wonderkids in that squad in FM13. What I mean is; Giving the inter NextGen players 5 wonderkids, the liverpool NextGen players 5 wonderkids and the Barcelona NextGen players 5 wonderkids and the ajax NextGen players only one would make no sense to me.

You DO however have a point about the current status of the academy. The last years weren't the best in history, that's why Johan Cruijff decided to return to Ajax and he instated Bergkamp, Jonk, Overmars and de Boer (currently the manager, before he coached the youth squad, the one that reached the NextGen finales). Still I think they have done great last years. The last players that just left are (Tottenham), Anita(Newcastle), Van der Wiel(PSG), Stekelenburg(AS Roma). Also our first eleven are usually consisting of 8 academy players. So claiming the academy failed is wrong. I however do realise the quality of technical players declined the last years (since Sneijder/Van der Vaart). But now we have Eriksen, Fischer, Kishna and more who obviously still need to prove it. I firmly believe only the Barcelona Academy does better. If we take all players that came through from the academy since puyol they have a really great team. But if I collect all players came through from the ajax academy since then, Ajax would also have a great team. I even think more quality players came through the Ajax Academy. Barcelona does however have a extremely good draft these years with iniesta, xavi and messi. But it's impossible to maintain this every 3 years.

 

[duca]

It's the same with Portugal :/

If you make a team from players formed in Sporting you would also have a great team

 

[Mike.]

@mike
You name Paul Scholes, the Paul Scholes United had to bring back after he retired. I think this only reinforces my earlier claim that there aren't many technically gifted players coming through in England.
My point is, with 50 million residents it's extremely poor whats coming through(or am I overestimating the English population). The Spanish have iniesta xavi, the Germans Ozil Gotze and I feel as if you SHOULD be able to do better. Do you agree or not?

Concerning Fischer(and other Ajax Academy talents), I DO understand scoring 3 goals doesn't get you high ratings. That would be ridiculous. I think you misunderstood my point. These players were underrated. And I first claimed the low ratings might have been due to the fact that youngsters playing in Holland are less of a hype to the rest of the world and they get less exposure. These goals and assists should undo this. And I do expect him to have a great potential in fm 13. Not only because of his Next-Gen matches, some people find him to be an even greater talent than Eriksen. He just had a solid season, and that promisses him to be a great player in the future.

The only reason I brought up the NextGen, is to underline the fact that there should be a few amasing wonderkids in that squad in FM13. What I mean is; Giving the inter NextGen players 5 wonderkids, the liverpool NextGen players 5 wonderkids and the Barcelona NextGen players 5 wonderkids and the ajax NextGen players only one would make no sense to me.

You DO however have a point about the current status of the academy. The last years weren't the best in history, that's why Johan Cruijff decided to return to Ajax and he instated Bergkamp, Jonk, Overmars and de Boer (currently the manager, before he coached the youth squad, the one that reached the NextGen finales). Still I think they have done great last years. The last players that just left are (Tottenham), Anita(Newcastle), Van der Wiel(PSG), Stekelenburg(AS Roma). Also our first eleven are usually consisting of 8 academy players. So claiming the academy failed is wrong. I however do realise the quality of technical players declined the last years (since Sneijder/Van der Vaart). But now we have Eriksen, Fischer, Kishna and more who obviously still need to prove it. I firmly believe only the Barcelona Academy does better. If we take all players that came through from the academy since puyol they have a really great team. But if I collect all players came through from the ajax academy since then, Ajax would also have a great team. I even think more quality players came through the Ajax Academy. Barcelona does however have a extremely good draft these years with iniesta, xavi and messi. But it's impossible to maintain this every 3 years.

But whether we should produce more, has no bearing on whether the players are overrated. Having said that, quite frankly there are very few midfielders in the world, let alone the UK, that can do what Scholes can do.

Ratings wont have anything to with hype because the dutch players are rated by dutch researchers (unless they have moved abroad, in which case they are rated by who ever is that club researcher).

Fischer might get a rating now, because he has has a good consistent season, but there was no case for raising him in FM12, because you don't rate over a handful of games.

I also never claimed the academy had failed. Anita is a good player, but isn't a kind of talent that they a famed for, something pointed out by the dutch researcher. That said, Holland may well get upped.

And you say you have players who need to prove it, well that's kind of my point, when they prove that they are going to look like real talents, that's when they get re rated.

Also Ajax doesnt stand for the entire dutch rating, that is done by the players all the ducth teams would be producing.

Reddiablo, the dutch researcher, is arguably one of the best of all the Euro researchers.

here is the place to go for dutch data http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/276217-Holland-(Official)-Data-Issues/page6

 

[eriksen8]

Mike, I think you're missing the point. I'm only using Ajax as an example because I can name more of those players than in other youth academies. I can actually use reallife examples.
I'm merely pointing out that something is off in the rating system. You might have never heard of Fischer, Kishna, Vilhena, Achabar, Bakkali, Depay, Locadia or maybe you have. That's not really the point. But these players are the gems of the feyenoord, ajax and psv academy. They are the Sneijder, Van der Vaart, Robben of their draft. Some of them have been the key players in all the youth teams, in the national youth teams. They shined on the youth world cup tournaments. Achabar and Bakkali even won prizes for most valueble player (if I'm right). Reddiablo surely must know that.
How is it possible so many of those players have a potential of only half of some other wonderkids. I'm not saying they should all have a Neymar-like rating. I'm merely saying these players should have been rated higher. The key thing is they should have been rated higher, seeing as they have proven to be wonderkids for years. They have proven more than let's say Carlos Fierro/Erick Torres/Felipe Gutierrez/Yaya Sanogo and there are like so many more of these overpowered youth players you encounter every FM. Surely some of them might live up to this, but many of them do not. So I'm not saying the players I name should have the Carlos Fierro/Erick Torres/Felipe Gutierrez/Yaya Sanogo potential. I'm not even saying Carlos Fierro/Erick Torres/Felipe Gutierrez/Yaya Sanogo should be downgraded. I'm only pointing out SO many Dutch talents, are underrated when compared to other ones.

Thanks for that link! I'll have a look!

 

[Mike.]

Mike, I think you're missing the point. I'm only using Ajax as an example because I can name more of those players than in other youth academies. I can actually use reallife examples.
I'm merely pointing out that something is off in the rating system. You might have never heard of Fischer, Kishna, Vilhena, Achabar, Bakkali, Depay, Locadia or maybe you have. That's not really the point. But these players are the gems of the feyenoord, ajax and psv academy. They are the Sneijder, Van der Vaart, Robben of their draft. Some of them have been the key players in all the youth teams, in the national youth teams. They shined on the youth world cup tournaments. Achabar and Bakkali even won prizes for most valueble player (if I'm right). Reddiablo surely must know that.
How is it possible so many of those players have a potential of only half of some other wonderkids. I'm not saying they should all have a Neymar-like rating. I'm merely saying these players should have been rated higher. The key thing is they should have been rated higher, seeing as they have proven to be wonderkids for years. They have proven more than let's say Carlos Fierro/Erick Torres/Felipe Gutierrez/Yaya Sanogo and there are like so many more of these overpowered youth players you encounter every FM. Surely some of them might live up to this, but many of them do not. So I'm not saying the players I name should have the Carlos Fierro/Erick Torres/Felipe Gutierrez/Yaya Sanogo potential. I'm not even saying Carlos Fierro/Erick Torres/Felipe Gutierrez/Yaya Sanogo should be downgraded. I'm only pointing out SO many Dutch talents, are underrated when compared to other ones.

Thanks for that link! I'll have a look!

Shining at youth does not make you the new robben etc, you'd have to start showing that kind of ability in the senior club sides too. that's what gets players that kind of level, because senior football is a serious class above all youth player.

For example. most of the united under 18/youth are excellent at their level. None of them i would start calling the new beckham scholes whatever, because they simply havent played at senior level, and thus researchers would err on the side of caution.

 

[Mike.]

Should also add that fischer gets a 4 star potential rating from a manchester united scout in fm13, he is certainly not underrated.

 

[eriksen8]

Shining at youth does not make you the new robben etc, you'd have to start showing that kind of ability in the senior club sides too. that's what gets players that kind of level, because senior football is a serious class above all youth player.

For example. most of the united under 18/youth are excellent at their level. None of them i would start calling the new beckham scholes whatever, because they simply havent played at senior level, and thus researchers would err on the side of caution.

I can't agree more. None of those player is the next sneijder, the next scholes. There's just one thing, we're talking about potential here. Saying some youth player has the potential of scholes can be true, but saying that player is as good as scholes is false.

We'll continue this discussion when the demo is out

 

[MarkGidman]

@mike
You name Paul Scholes, the Paul Scholes United had to bring back after he retired. I think this only reinforces my earlier claim that there aren't many technically gifted players coming through in England.
My point is, with 50 million residents it's extremely poor whats coming through(or am I overestimating the English population). The Spanish have iniesta xavi, the Germans Ozil Gotze and I feel as if you SHOULD be able to do better. Do you agree or not?

Concerning Fischer(and other Ajax Academy talents), I DO understand scoring 3 goals doesn't get you high ratings. That would be ridiculous. I think you misunderstood my point. These players were underrated. And I first claimed the low ratings might have been due to the fact that youngsters playing in Holland are less of a hype to the rest of the world and they get less exposure. These goals and assists should undo this. And I do expect him to have a great potential in fm 13. Not only because of his Next-Gen matches, some people find him to be an even greater talent than Eriksen. He just had a solid season, and that promisses him to be a great player in the future.

The only reason I brought up the NextGen, is to underline the fact that there should be a few amasing wonderkids in that squad in FM13. What I mean is; Giving the inter NextGen players 5 wonderkids, the liverpool NextGen players 5 wonderkids and the Barcelona NextGen players 5 wonderkids and the ajax NextGen players only one would make no sense to me.

You DO however have a point about the current status of the academy. The last years weren't the best in history, that's why Johan Cruijff decided to return to Ajax and he instated Bergkamp, Jonk, Overmars and de Boer (currently the manager, before he coached the youth squad, the one that reached the NextGen finales). Still I think they have done great last years. The last players that just left are (Tottenham), Anita(Newcastle), Van der Wiel(PSG), Stekelenburg(AS Roma). Also our first eleven are usually consisting of 8 academy players. So claiming the academy failed is wrong. I however do realise the quality of technical players declined the last years (since Sneijder/Van der Vaart). But now we have Eriksen, Fischer, Kishna and more who obviously still need to prove it. I firmly believe only the Barcelona Academy does better. If we take all players that came through from the academy since puyol they have a really great team. But if I collect all players came through from the ajax academy since then, Ajax would also have a great team. I even think more quality players came through the Ajax Academy. Barcelona does however have a extremely good draft these years with iniesta, xavi and messi. But it's impossible to maintain this every 3 years.

But whether we should produce more, has no bearing on whether the players are overrated. Having said that, quite frankly there are very few midfielders in the world, let alone the UK, that can do what Scholes can do.

Ratings wont have anything to with hype because the dutch players are rated by dutch researchers (unless they have moved abroad, in which case they are rated by who ever is that club researcher).

Fischer might get a rating now, because he has has a good consistent season, but there was no case for raising him in FM12, because you don't rate over a handful of games.

I also never claimed the academy had failed. Anita is a good player, but isn't a kind of talent that they a famed for, something pointed out by the dutch researcher. That said, Holland may well get upped.

And you say you have players who need to prove it, well that's kind of my point, when they prove that they are going to look like real talents, that's when they get re rated.

Also Ajax doesnt stand for the entire dutch rating, that is done by the players all the ducth teams would be producing.

Reddiablo, the dutch researcher, is arguably one of the best of all the Euro researchers.

here is the place to go for dutch data Sports Interactive Community

 

[bondj700]

Interesting thread. I kind of agree with both Ericksen8 and Mike. I think overall on past FM's Dutch players probably have been underrated compared to other countries especially England. If you compared players over the last 25 years that could really be classed world class from Holland and England the Dutch would win hands down. The de Boer brothers, Koeman, Davids, Seedorf, Bergkamp, Klievert, RvP, Robben, Sneijder, Gullit, Rijkard, van der Sar,Van Basten, Stam, van Nistelrooy, Overmars In the same period for England I think only Seaman, Ferdinand, Gazza, Lineker, Shearer, Scholes, Gerrard, Ca$hley and Rooney could be called world class.

However, I agree with Mike when he says the current Dutch generation(although they made WC2010 final) are getting old and the next gen has still to prove itself and this is what SI have to model in the game.

You make some decent points, but you are also misunderstanding how players are rated.

Also the creative spark isnt quite true, when you look at United. That has almost exclusively been the domain of the domestic players, and Scholes in particular.

Sorry Mike don't agree entirely agree with you here. Since EPL started yes there has been Scholes, Sheringham and Rooney(Giggs if counting Welsh as domestic) providing united creative spark but there has been as much if not more provided by foreign players - Cantona, Kanchelskis, Yorke, Poborsky, Veron, Larsson, Tevez, Nani, Valancia, Berbatov, CR and now RvP

Out of interest what the youth ratings of England and Holland in FM13? I know in the past Holland was higher so in the future Ajax should produce better regens for you Ericksen8

 

[Mike.]

Interesting thread. I kind of agree with both Ericksen8 and Mike. I think overall on past FM's Dutch players probably have been underrated compared to other countries especially England. If you compared players over the last 25 years that could really be classed world class from Holland and England the Dutch would win hands down. The de Boer brothers, Koeman, Davids, Seedorf, Bergkamp, Klievert, RvP, Robben, Sneijder, Gullit, Rijkard, van der Sar,Van Basten, Stam, van Nistelrooy, Overmars In the same period for England I think only Seaman, Ferdinand, Gazza, Lineker, Shearer, Scholes, Gerrard, Ca$hley and Rooney could be called world class.

However, I agree with Mike when he says the current Dutch generation(although they made WC2010 final) are getting old and the next gen has still to prove itself and this is what SI have to model in the game.



Sorry Mike don't agree entirely agree with you here. Since EPL started yes there has been Scholes, Sheringham and Rooney(Giggs if counting Welsh as domestic) providing united creative spark but there has been as much if not more provided by foreign players - Cantona, Kanchelskis, Yorke, Poborsky, Veron, Larsson, Tevez, Nani, Valancia, Berbatov, CR and now RvP

Out of interest what the youth ratings of England and Holland in FM13? I know in the past Holland was higher so in the future Ajax should produce better regens for you Ericksen8

Even now, the spark of our play is Scholes when he steps on the pitch, all of these players have had him as the key supply, there creative heart has been English, mainly because its been Scholes. You have to add Carrick and Cleverley, Cole, Ince, Beckham to that list.

 

[bondj700]

Yes Scholes was and still is a creative heart - he is without doubt one of the best players of his generation as said by Zidane and Xavi. But the the foriegn players I mentioned were also creative sparks and often supplied Scholes in his younger days when he played further up the pitch. The other English players you mention Carrick - plays it simple and short, not a creative force Cleverley - Got potential but not finished article yet Cole - Andy?! Poacher never a creative player! Ince- midfield general/destroyer not a creative player Beckham - created lots of chances from set pieces and worked hard but not a creative heart like Scholes

 

[Maykel]

However, I agree with Mike when he says the current Dutch generation(although they made WC2010 final) are getting old and the next gen has still to prove itself and this is what SI have to model in the game.

And what exactly has a Raheem Sterling, Nick Powell or Kurt Zouma (all rated 5 stars by my scouts at Man Utd) shown more at senior level so far as a Bruno Martins Indi or Ricardo van Rhijn (both 2,5 star). That is the point Eriksen8 is trying to make (in my eyes) about Dutch players being underrated. Ofcourse the Dutch talents have to show it for a longer period of time but the same goes for Sterling/Powerll/Zouma/all the other highly rated players that haven't shown much at senior level so far. Even they can end up like Saviola or Aimar, 2 players that were topclass when I started playing CM97/98 but never really made it at the top.

I'm not saying the Dutch talents they are underrated for that matter, but when comparing them with a lot of the other talents in FM13, who have shown far less at senior level often, it just isn't right. One other thing you can look at that shows the Netherlands isn't valued correctly is the Youth Rating List because how can countries like Russia, Turkey, Nigeria, Egypt, Mexico or the United States have a higher rating. What exactly have they produced as big talents for years? Not as much as the Netherlands, that's for sure.