Useful roles for a Defensive Midfielder pair? (deep 4-2-3-1)

[R00dris]

I've been using 2 standard "DM's" at Support duty and having some sucess, also had a little sucess using 1 ball winning midfielder at Defend duty (Kyriakos Papadopoulos) together with a standard DM at Support duty.

I heard that in real life a Regista works well in a pair with a defensive midfielder that wins balls for him and allows him to be creative (Xabi Alonso/Khedira).

Any successes with any combinations?

Now that my team is going through a bad moment I feel like it's time to maybe do some adjustments.

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[rocheyb]

Here's a screenshot of a similar formation that I use. You can see from the Team Instructions and Fluidity settings that this is not as defensive a formation as it may appear - although it has proven effective against top teams who play 4-2-3-1 against me, by congesting the area that the three Attacking Midfielders want to occupy and hitting them on the break:

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The first thing that strikes me about your formation is that your players are arranged in straight lines. With the exception of the Wing-Backs, the defenders defend, the midfielders support and the attackers attack. Your team doesn't appear to be trying to break the lines of the opposition's formation - to draw defensive players out to make space for through balls and attacking runs from deep.

In my version, the Left-Back attacks while the Inside Forward is on Support duty, moving infield to create space for the overlap. The Right-Back is more restrained with Support duty and the Right Winger attacks the byline.

I've got a Ball-Winning Midfielder alongside a Deep-Lying Playmaker in the DM positions, encouraging the latter to push up a bit more while the former looks after everything at the back. That might work better if the BWM was on the left of the two to cover the Left-Back; I might change that. Having just read the Regista description, that might be even better than a DLP, so worth experimenting.

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If Mateo Kovacic is as good in your game as he appears to be in mine (now in 2024/25), then I'd encourage you to pull him into the M_C position as an Advanced Forward_Attack with instructions to play More Direct Passes and Roam From Position (he will automatically Dribble More). This is one of his preferred positions/roles and by picking the ball up in deeper positions he will be able to run at the opposition defence at pace, causing them to commit themselves by coming out of position, giving away fouls and allowing space in behind them to play-in attacking team-mates.

Ishak Belfodil is 6ft4in and a good all-round Striker, so Complete Forward_Support (or possibly Target Man_Support) should be ideal for him. Crosses from the byline from the right winger and from deep by the left back - aimed at Target Man - should provide plenty of opportunities. By acting in the support role, he will automatically be instructed to Hold The Ball Up, making him available to play short through balls and one-twos with Kovacic and your IF and/or Winger to play them in on-goal through the middle and in the channels.

Short passing and possession football helps to bring the full-backs up to join in the passing move and provide additional width. Central midfielders who list Like To Switch Play To Opposite Flank and/or Tries Long Range Passes Often among their Preferred Moves should be instructed to play More Direct Passes so they can exploit open spaces, as-and-when they occur, to release your wingers and take advantage of counter attacking opportunities.

 

[dbs86]

Try using a half back, they basically drop right back to act as a 3rd centre back which means you can set your full backs to a more attacking setting even pushing them up to act as wingbacks, which in turn will give you more penetration down the flanks resulting in potential overloads and still remain quite tight at the back with basically 3 centre backs covering and the other DM sitting in front if you are playing 2 DMs.

I used to always use a half back for this reason when playing a back 4 as it gives you a massive tactical outlet having super attacking wingbacks, to such an extent that i now play a 343 inspired by bielsa and jorge sampaoli's tactical ideology as i find that having a back 3 with 1 covering defender cuts down on the times thru balls wipe out your entire defence. This allows me to play wingbacks, 2 sitting midfielders (1 sitting creater who maintains some defensive responsibilities, and 1 ball winner) and a front 3 of an Advanced playmaker on the left with licence to roam and cut inside a bit like jordi gomez does when wigan played 343, an advanced forward who pressures the opposition defence, gets on the end of crosses and scores goals and an inside forward sitting narrower who runs the channel between the opposition centre back and full back casuing problems as neither knows who should be marking him as there is also a wingback and sometimes the AF in that zone resulting in a 3v2 overload.

bit of a long post but all this was possible due to experimenting with a halfback and evolving my tactics from that as i noticed a back 3 seemed more secure than 2 CBs and 1 or 2 DMs, as i write this my penarol team is just coming in at half time 5-0 up to national

 

[Igneos79]

I would use a dlps and perhaps bwms if using a shorter passing style. But I noticed you only have one creator and three strikers, you might want to balance that better.

 

[R00dris]

I'm testing the Regista/BWM combination (which is similar to DLP/BWM) and it's working better than DM/DM, but my game isn't based on shorter passing, it's based on the speed of IFs and wingbacks, the technique of the forwards when cutting inside, and the strenght and heading of the lone striker when jumping above the defenders.

Is there another combination that fits that style of play better?

 

[Igneos79]

I'm testing the Regista/BWM combination (which is similar to DLP/BWM) and it's working better than DM/DM, but my game isn't based on shorter passing, it's based on the speed of IFs and wingbacks, the technique of the forwards when cutting inside, and the strenght and heading of the lone striker when jumping above the defenders.

Is there another combination that fits that style of play better?

You might want to go route one or more direct passing then, combined with pump ball into box, if you want direct balls to your forward, or clear ball to flanks if you want direct balls to your inside forwards. I think you would do well to play more narrow, so the forward can flick on to someone near, or that if's have space on the flanks. But I wouldnt base my game or both sidebacks and if's. One of those need to be supporting and one needs to be attacking. It would be very unbalanced to have both attacking.

 

[R00dris]

You might want to go route one or more direct passing then, combined with pump ball into box, if you want direct balls to your forward, or clear ball to flanks if you want direct balls to your inside forwards. I think you would do well to play more narrow, so the forward can flick on to someone near, or that if's have space on the flanks. But I wouldnt base my game or both sidebacks and if's. One of those need to be supporting and one needs to be attacking. It would be very unbalanced to have both attacking.

When you talked about having only one creator, did you mean I could turn one of the IF's into a sort of supporting advanced playmaker?

But isn't the Regista a kind of creator?

 

[Igneos79]

When you talked about having only one creator, did you mean I could turn one of the IF's into a sort of supporting advanced playmaker?

But isn't the Regista a kind of creator?

regista is agressor/creator ....yes, you could go ifs or adv. play on the wing...