What are the views on the Hearts crisis?

[ianhall65]

After there debt was transferred to the central bank of Lithuania?

It looks like the end could be near for them as a Rangers fan it's not a nice thing to go through but after Hearts were the first to speak out about Rangers and say No2Newco i have absolutely no sympathy for the club or the fans and the saying karma is a ***** looks very much true for the Jambos

 

[ajt09]

Crappy for the league, the fans, and if it's really bad (I don't know tbh) bad for the area. Hopefully can be resolved. Football's having a crappy time as it is and last thing we need is another club going down the crapper

 

[ianhall65]

Crappy for the league, the fans, and if it's really bad (I don't know tbh) bad for the area. Hopefully can be resolved. Football's having a crappy time as it is and last thing we need is another club going down the crapper

It's looking really bad from what i can gather they owed Ukios Bankas £25M and £15M was secured against there stadium and that bank went bankrupt yesterday with all the debt transferred to the central bank of Lithuania and it's looking like they could call in the debt meaning administration and massive points deduction meaning the club will get relegated and possibly have no stadium to play in next season and if they get liquidated (Looking likely) Scottish football set a precedent by sending Rangers to the third division at the start of this season so more than likely Hearts would to thats if someone bought the clubs assets after the liquidation process has begun but with possibly no stadium it would be a very high risk

I could be wrong though

 

[Kris]

After there debt was transferred to the central bank of Lithuania?

It looks like the end could be near for them as a Rangers fan it's not a nice thing to go through but after Hearts were the first to speak out about Rangers and say No2Newco i have absolutely no sympathy for the club or the fans and the saying karma is a ***** looks very much true for the Jambos

Another bitter Rangers fan.

If we go bust then of course we have to start over from the Third division. It's the rules and I have yet to hear anything from our club to suggest we will cry and moan about a demotion. New club, new start.

Not sure how "karma is a *****" though? You were rightly demoted.

We've been crippled with debt for years, long before Romanov. Most realistic Hearts fans have known this was inevitable. I doubt the banks administrator will have any sympathy for us and may demand the 15m, which would then put us into administration and we'd be hit with a points deduction. if it's before the end of the season, we'll likely be relegated, if not, a deduction next season.

We would only be liquidated and demoted if the situation got to Rangers stage and who knows if that would happen throughout the summer. It could drag on for quite some time.

It might be a blessing though, starting over debt free with a squad of young players and a strong following would mean steady profits year in and out.

 

[zulu9812]

Another bitter Rangers fan.

If we go bust then of course we have to start over from the Third division. It's the rules and I have yet to hear anything from our club to suggest we will cry and moan about a demotion. New club, new start.

There's actually nothing in the rules to say that an SPL club re-formed as a new co would be automatically granted a place in the Third Division. See the example of Gretna: still an SPL club when liquidated, the new co - Gretna 08 - now play in East of Scotland Premier (i.e. the juniors). During last summer's close season, there was a significant delay in the granting of a license to Rangers to play in the Third Division, during which I'm sure some concessions and payments were secured. So there is no guarantee that a new co Hearts will be a senior league team - they could well join Gretna 08 in the juniors.

Not sure how "karma is a *****" though? You were rightly demoted.

I'm not sure that you are correct. There is no such thing as "demotion to the Third is punishment for liquidation". It simply does not exist. The rationale behind Rangers going into the Third Division was that they were a new business entity and thus a new club. As a new club, Rangers would have to start from the bottom. But there is no pyramid system in Scottish football, and there were plenty of junior clubs eager to take up the vacant spot in the league - notably Spartans and Forres Mechanics. Rangers did not start from scratch: they were parachuted into the Third division. Whilst Rangers were no doubt glad not to have to play in the juniors, it does undermine the notion that a new club has to start from the bottom. If it was acceptable to parachute new co Rangers into the Third, why was it not acceptable to parachute them into the Premier, or the First?

But, the stated reason for Rangers going into the Third is that they were a new club - even if financial concerns persuaded the league that Rangers would bring more money to the league than, say, Spartans. But new co Rangers have also been made liable for debts owed by the old co to other football clubs - transfer money to Hearts, gate money to Dundee United, legal bill handed out by the SPL for investigating the dual contracts, etc. So Rangers are a new co for the purposes of league position, but are also the old co whenever someone hits them up for money.

It might be a blessing though, starting over debt free with a squad of young players and a strong following would mean steady profits year in and out.

There would also be considerably less income. Rangers can sustain the loss of TV money because they have 40,000+ fans at every home game. Also, whilst it is assumed that Rangers will achieve promotion in every consecutive season - the same result is much less likely for a new co Hearts. They could be in the lower divisions for a very long time.

 

[Kris]

There's actually nothing in the rules to say that an SPL club re-formed as a new co would be automatically granted a place in the Third Division. See the example of Gretna: still an SPL club when liquidated, the new co - Gretna 08 - now play in East of Scotland Premier (i.e. the juniors). During last summer's close season, there was a significant delay in the granting of a license to Rangers to play in the Third Division, during which I'm sure some concessions and payments were secured. So there is no guarantee that a new co Hearts will be a senior league team - they could well join Gretna 08 in the juniors.

I'm going on the assumption that the SFL would welcome the income that a club the size and stature of Hearts would generate. It would be foolish not to welcome Hearts, the same way it would have with Rangers. I also believe that Gretna elected to play at that level and didn't submit for re-entry?

I'm not sure that you are correct. There is no such thing as "demotion to the Third is punishment for liquidation". It simply does not exist. The rationale behind Rangers going into the Third Division was that they were a new business entity and thus a new club. As a new club, Rangers would have to start from the bottom. But there is no pyramid system in Scottish football, and there were plenty of junior clubs eager to take up the vacant spot in the league - notably Spartans and Forres Mechanics. Rangers did not start from scratch: they were parachuted into the Third division. Whilst Rangers were no doubt glad not to have to play in the juniors, it does undermine the notion that a new club has to start from the bottom. If it was acceptable to parachute new co Rangers into the Third, why was it not acceptable to parachute them into the Premier, or the First?

But, the stated reason for Rangers going into the Third is that they were a new club - even if financial concerns persuaded the league that Rangers would bring more money to the league than, say, Spartans. But new co Rangers have also been made liable for debts owed by the old co to other football clubs - transfer money to Hearts, gate money to Dundee United, legal bill handed out by the SPL for investigating the dual contracts, etc. So Rangers are a new co for the purposes of league position, but are also the old co whenever someone hits them up for money.

I've worded that wrong. I believe that in the rules if a club is liquidated, their membership is null and void.So not a demotion but Rangers were never going to be excluded from Scottish football.

I think it's all dependant on the route the club wishes to go down. If they form a Rangers style "newco" route, I think it's up to the SFA to decide if they can transfer membership or they could go down the Gretna route and be a seperate entity but I'm not sure fans will be happy with that.

There would also be considerably less income. Rangers can sustain the loss of TV money because they have 40,000+ fans at every home game. Also, whilst it is assumed that Rangers will achieve promotion in every consecutive season - the same result is much less likely for a new co Hearts. They could be in the lower divisions for a very long time.

Again the situation depends on where Hearts would be playing their football but I'd imagine they'd return to the first division with ease. I'd imagine we'd still have a greater amount of pull to attract a decent level of player or if most of the current bunch of young players decide to stay. Either way, Hearts are a big enough name to attract a better standard of player than say Peterhead or Stirling Albion.

 

[Dunc]

Again the situation depends on where Hearts would be playing their football but I'd imagine they'd return to the first division with ease. I'd imagine we'd still have a greater amount of pull to attract a decent level of player or if most of the current bunch of young players decide to stay. Either way, Hearts are a big enough name to attract a better standard of player than say Peterhead or Stirling Albion.

I remember Leeds fans saying similar things when they were relegated around 10 years ago.. I know it's a different kind of rebuilding, but it's never that easy.

 

[Kris]

I remember Leeds fans saying similar things when they were relegated around 10 years ago.. I know it's a different kind of rebuilding, but it's never that easy.

The standard of the second and third division up here is pretty woeful though. Providing we get a sei decent level of player and a decent coach...easy.

 

[ianhall65]

Another bitter Rangers fan.

If we go bust then of course we have to start over from the Third division. It's the rules and I have yet to hear anything from our club to suggest we will cry and moan about a demotion. New club, new start.

Not sure how "karma is a *****" though? You were rightly demoted.

We've been crippled with debt for years, long before Romanov. Most realistic Hearts fans have known this was inevitable. I doubt the banks administrator will have any sympathy for us and may demand the 15m, which would then put us into administration and we'd be hit with a points deduction. if it's before the end of the season, we'll likely be relegated, if not, a deduction next season.

We would only be liquidated and demoted if the situation got to Rangers stage and who knows if that would happen throughout the summer. It could drag on for quite some time.

It might be a blessing though, starting over debt free with a squad of young players and a strong following would mean steady profits year in and out.

The reason i said karma is a ***** is because Hearts were the very first side to publicly say no to newco and exactly one year down the line they could find themselves in the position

I'm not bitter by a long way i have actually enjoyed being in the lower leagues it is a nice change i do miss the old firm games and European football but it will only be a few years before both are back.

I am quite annoyed over the big tax case and how we actually won it and the fact the SPL set up an independent commision then when it doesn't go there way they say Rangers a club that said it was a waste of time from the start had to pay for it and that's after they withheld monies due to the club from last season that could have went in the pot to pay off some debts of the old company