You Need More Than One Tactic!

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ok cool well gonna try it now and see what i come up with :) next away game
 
Very interesting thread and also very helpful. Have been playing with Southampton and just can not find a tactic that works. Is there any chance you could put a link up so that I could download your tactics rocheyb?
thanks in advance
 
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tried on first away game good results lol!!!

GK=SW-pass it shorter,and distrubute to SW
SW=libero/S- pass shorter mark tighter
DC's=CB/D-pass it shorter, close down more, mark tighter
R/FB=CWB-cross aim center,cross from deep,cross more often, close down, mark tighter
L/FB=CWB- cross aim center cross more often, mark tighter, close down more
MCL=B2B- close down , pass shorter
MC=BWM- close down, tight marking, pass shorter
MCR=AP/S- close down, mark tighter
STR/R=DLF/s- direct passing ,move into channels
STR/L=CF/A- move into channels,more direct passes

Mentality- Counter
fluidity- Balance

Well thats it so far next results come after next away game :)
 
monument1985 said:
Very interesting thread and also very helpful. Have been playing with Southampton and just can not find a tactic that works. Is there any chance you could put a link up so that I could download your tactics rocheyb?
thanks in advance
Click to expand...

Here's a link to my Dropbox folder, which I think you'll be able to download from. The zipped file contains the three .tac files for my 4-4-1-1, 4-5-1 Assymetric and 4-5-1 V-Shaped Midfield formations. See the first post in this thread for more details on the team and individual player instructions:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ew9z0n3d41pzkz/More Than One Tactic.zip
 
I played two pre-season matches using the 1-4-3-2 (I've called it 5-3-2 Libero_AP in-game). The first match was against Orlando City, a minor team from the USA. I started with this formation with the Full-Backs instructed to attack as Wing-Backs, and as discussed previously, the Ball Winning Midfielder in the middle of the midfield three:

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The first two match screenshots show Nathaniel Clyne (the right Wing-Back) crossing for Dragan Hrustic (the left Wing-Back) to open the scoring. But as you can see in the third screenshot, there was a tendency for the wing-backs to push too high too early in the move, leaving the central midfielders with no passing outlet and actually reducing the effective width of my team. I made some changes during that game and saw enough positive difference to set-up a bit differently in the next match, a testimonial for Nathan Dyer against Swansea City:

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Now the two wide men are out-and-out Wing-Backs, instructed to put crosses in from the byline. Swansea have just been relegated, so there are not as good at this point in my game as they are in real life, but I still take the 5-0 drubbing that we dished out to them here as a sign of the effectiveness of this formation.

The first of the match screenshots shows Clyne taking a shot from the inside right position; the player on the far left is my left WB, so they are having no problems getting forward to take part in the attacks.

Scrap what I said earlier about the central midfield. I now think that you need to push the Advanced Playmaker into the No.10 position, central behind the front two, and leave the BWM and the BBM to patrol the middle where the WBs will help them out during transitions. This often meant that Jonjo Shelvey (my AP) was lining up alongside the two front men, playing with his back to goal to receive passes from the midfielders, ready to play a short pass behind the defenders for Jorgensen and Rodriguez to latch onto. This meant that during attacks, we transitioned into 3-4-3, outnumbering Swansea's flat back four and were able to exploit the channels: The two last match screenshots show a through ball from midfield which Shelvey runs onto in the right hand channel, and lobs over the keeper.

During general play, Shelvey dropped into the middle of midfield and exchanged passes with Westley and Schweinsteiger, who both kept their positions throughout, and Rodriguez as the Deep Lying-Forward would drop to take part in the build-up play, while the WBs offered the required width. In Support mode, they are smarter about how soon to make their forward runs and don't position themselves out of the game so often.

What I really like, though, in addition to outnumbering the opposition's centre-backs in attack, is the insurance this formation gives you against the counter attack. With a Libero between them, the two Centre-Backs take up wide positions when you're in attack, while the two holding midfielders occupy the channels ahead of them. So you have five players spread across the width of the pitch who can intercept passes, make tackles and win headers no matter what angle the opposition tries to attack from. During periods of Swansea pressure, the WBs dropped to operate as Full-Backs, while the Libero and Centre-Backs completed a solid line of five that City couldn't find a way through. When it was our turn to counter, Shelvey and the two WBs would move into gear and run past the two holding midfielders to get us on the front foot once again.

I think this is a good formation. I'm going to switch to my 4-4-1-1 for a couple of matches to get my wingers match fit for the new season, but I'll probably use this 5-3-2 Libero_AP against Norwich City in the Community Shield, to see how it fares in a more competitive match. If I decide I'm happy with it, I might use it to replace the 4-5-1 V-Shaped Midfield tactic within my set of three. That should certainly help me to keep the other top teams guessing.
 
More than one I have a

442,
4312,
4231 (2 dmc),
4231 (2 mc),
4231 (3 amc)
3412
4411

accross my teams, all top of the league, i think one is 2nd, but season is early doors just yet. I do think the right team and tactic selection is more prevelant in this years edition, than previous. Still got a 532 and 4132 (3 mc) to test out as well.
 
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I played this 5-3-2 formation against a decent Norwich City team (5th in the Prem last season; FA Cup winners) in what proved to be a strange Community Shield match:

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Both of the wing-backs are usually full-backs; I have wingers being re-trained for both left and right, but in the meantime I only have defenders to play those positions comfortably, with a currently unfit Milan youngster whose primary position is WB_R just arrived on-loan. The sweeper is my new record 34million-pound signing from CSKA Moscow, the Mexican defensive midfielder Diego Reyes (aged 26), who is likely to be my only paid transfer this summer.

We dominated the first-half, with 9 shots on goal to Norwich's zero; we pressed high on both wings and got plenty of crosses into the box. John Ruddy made several good saves but our man Erik Gomez (a regen) scored the only goal. Norwich barely entered our half and when they did, the three defenders just stepped forward and took the ball from them, no problem. So at half-time, I was happy enough with the way things were going. But in the second half, Norwich were much better; they tackled harder, passed to feet throughout the midfield, pressed us high up the field and deservedly equalised in the 54th minute.

Using defenders as wing-backs was an issue, I think; Nathaniel Clyne had three opportunities for diagonal shots on goal but not the finishing ability to succeed, whereas in my usual 4-4-1-1 formation all four of my first team rotation wingers are dangerous from that sort of position - two of them reached double-figures last season.

Shelvey didn't perform in this match and did not push as far forward as he did in the friendly against Swansea, so I subbed him for Ross Barkley who didn't do a great deal better. In the end, though, Norwich were getting on top so I switched back to my trusted 4-4-1-1 and we almost won it near the end.

There's no extra-time in the Community Shield (I didn't know that!) so it went straight to penalties. Everybody scored, so it came down to a Keeper-on-Keeper sudden death decider. Mine scored; theirs didn't. We won 11-10!

I have several players being re-trained to play the sweeper and wing-back roles but in the meantime, I'm going to ditch the sweeper position for a ball-playing defender in the centre-back position, to which Reyes is well-suited, and I will pair a full-back with a winger in the two wing-back positions in the hope of getting a decent finisher in on-goal now-and-again from wide. Although that will mean playing the winger in a position that he is not currently trained to play, I figure that shouldn't be a problem during attacks when he will have transitioned back into a winger. Any defensive frailties should be dealt with by the right-sided centre-back. Hopefully.
 
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First i would like to thank you for the time you have taken to put this together, having not played this for the last two years, old tactical thought dont seem to work on this engine (maybe its me).
Having started as West Ham with no money and no real strike force up front I didnt want to get into long ball direct play, but with a good midfield I have found your system works well. My big problem now seems to be down to set pieces especially corners, have played twelve games averaging six to ten corners a game but as yet not scored from one, opposition back line will not budge allways four across box have tried so many combinations to no avail so now allways play short not helping as I dont score enough goals from open play.
 
pdh said:
First i would like to thank you for the time you have taken to put this together, having not played this for the last two years, old tactical thought dont seem to work on this engine (maybe its me).
Having started as West Ham with no money and no real strike force up front I didnt want to get into long ball direct play, but with a good midfield I have found your system works well. My big problem now seems to be down to set pieces especially corners, have played twelve games averaging six to ten corners a game but as yet not scored from one, opposition back line will not budge allways four across box have tried so many combinations to no avail so now allways play short not helping as I dont score enough goals from open play.
Click to expand...

I set positional instructions according to the players' height, jumping reach and heading ability - with the best long range shooter lurking outside the area - and the corner takers are detailed to mix up the delivery.

I scored a lot more goals from corners in the first few seasons than I do now, but I don't know why. I have plenty of tall, strong players and excellent set-piece takers. Maybe teams prepare for matches against me by working on their defensive set-piece drills, or maybe one of the FM updates has made it harder to score that way. I might have all corners delivered to the back post and get my centre backs to Attack far post and Stand on far post, for a while, to see if it makes any difference. That's what I did in FM11.

On free-kicks from deep wide positions, the ball all-too-often floats directly into the arms of the opposition goalkeeper and I do think that is a game flaw, though we do get the odd goal from that situation.

Don't forget to get your team to train on Attacking set-pieces in preparation for teams that your scout identifies are not so hot at defending them.
 
I honestly don't think you do need more than 1 tactic. I've used Tylerbode's blitz for 4 straight seasons with SWFC and gone from strength to strength. I train 1 tactic out of the 3 slots.

Maybe i'm being cynical but I reckon some people over analyze this game, thus leading to over-complicated home/away/underdog/overload/V2/Tweaked etc versions of tactics that 'must' be used in various scenarios based on the opposition. A good solid tactic will prevail over the course of a season if you manage the team well.
 
Gerd Muller said:
I honestly don't think you do need more than 1 tactic. I've used Tylerbode's blitz for 4 straight seasons with SWFC and gone from strength to strength. I train 1 tactic out of the 3 slots.

Maybe i'm being cynical but I reckon some people over analyze this game, thus leading to over-complicated home/away/underdog/overload/V2/Tweaked etc versions of tactics that 'must' be used in various scenarios based on the opposition. A good solid tactic will prevail over the course of a season if you manage the team well.
Click to expand...

This thread is an account of how I overcame my initial difficulties with FM14, to the point that I now really enjoy playing it and feel that I am getting my money's worth for the 30-quid (or whatever it was) that I paid on the day it came out. It seems that FM14 has stumped even the most experienced veterans of the series, so any well-written advice that is based on a sound understanding of football tactics should help users to get a similar sense of value for their money - whether they take the advice verbatim or pick-and-choose what works for them. I may well have gone the long way round to achieve this level of understanding and possibly over-analysed, but this thread is the explanation of how I worked things out.

I'm sure there are plug-and-play tactics that work very effectively, but for me, they remove part of the realism of the game and destroy a large portion of the fun.

Imagine a real football manager, struggling to get his team to perform week-in, week-out - at any level of the football league pyramid. He could walk into any major bookshop in the country, or go online, and find books on tactics from any number of football writers and successful managers: I've got Jonathan Wilson's 'Inverting the Pyramid' right here; I've also got two diary of the season accounts from Sir Alex Ferguson, his biography, 'Football ****** ****' by Patrick Barclay and his recent autobiography - and there are books on tactics from the likes of Rinus Michels (the inventor of total football) and Louis van Gaal, which I might pick up one day, too.

Within the world of FM, reading a thread like this is like reading one of those books. To adopt a plug-and-play tactic would be the equivalent of phoning an opposition manager and just doing exactly what he tells you without any input of your own, which for me, removes the "manager" aspect from Football Manager.

But that's just my opinion. I accept that people play this game in different ways, and some would be bored to the back teeth by the level of detail that I invest in it. Each to their own.

I have found that the more successful you get, the more it becomes a case of imposing your tactics on the opposition and letting them worry about you - but there are still some teams, even relatively poor ones, whose particular tactics require some consideration and, sometimes, a change to your usual style.

Incidentally, on the subject of football books, Garry Nelson's 'Left Foot Forward' and 'Left Foot in the Grave', chronicling his experiences as a veteran player at Charlton Athletic and as player-coach at Torquay United respectively, are two of the best I have ever read. 'The Miracle of Castel di Sangro' is also very good.
 
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I do totally appreciate what you are saying there, everyone plays the game differently.

I suppose my gripe is that the title of your thread will instill fear in to the hearts of n00bs everywhere, people who struggle anyway without thinking they need multiple tactics as the title implies. It's more of an opinion that a statement of fact ;)
 
This is a forum thread - you have to use eye-catching titles to attract attention and then return to them every now and then so they don't disappear too far down the pages. I chose similarly sensationalistic names for my other threads on this site, too:

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-manager-2014-discussion/160029-how-succeed-fm14.html

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/foot...1-real-4-4-2-how-i-learned-play-triangle.html

I think there is a lot of good information in these posts that provides struggling FM users with plenty of food for thought, even if they decide to use a different tactic and stick with just the one - so if a few "n00bs" get scared into reading something that helps their understanding of the game, what's the harm! There are also plenty of other posters on here with useful information to share, if my long-form writing style or burrowed down attention to detail is off-putting.

Your criticism is totally fair comment, though - and by replying to it, I keep my thread on page one for a little bit longer. "Toppen", as they say in Allsvenskan!
 
Hey there mate, I told you in another thread already but this is super helpful and I really enjoy the way the tactics work on the pitch. I'm wondering if you're planning to write a more in-depth analysis of the other two tactics in this thread like you did with the 4-4-1-1 tactic.
 
LilywhiteArmy said:
Hey there mate, I told you in another thread already but this is super helpful and I really enjoy the way the tactics work on the pitch. I'm wondering if you're planning to write a more in-depth analysis of the other two tactics in this thread like you did with the 4-4-1-1 tactic.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your kind comments, Lilywhite. I did do a post on the 4-5-1 Assymetric formation a while ago but I didn't put the same effort into revisiting it to keep it high on the Tactics page listing. I'll try to find it and edit this post to insert the link.

EDIT NOTE: Here you go... http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/share-download-fm-14-tactics/149688-4-5-1-assymetric-saints.html

On the 4-5-1 V-Shaped Midfield, I would say everything I know about it is in the original post on this thread. But if I find myself using it more often then I'll examine it a bit more closely and write about it separately.

I devoted a stand alone thread to the 4-4-1-1 formation for two reasons; firstly, as my team has become better and more successful, I have tended to play this formation much more often than not. I still have two other formations fully trained-up and ready to use, but I have to admit now that the rotation of different tactics was a stage in my squad's development and in my own understanding of the game. Secondly, I wanted to encourage FMers to consider using the Shadow Striker/Deep-Lying Forward combination, to overcome the common complaint that the strikers don't score enough in FM14.
 
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