A proper 4-4-2 for testing

[Igneos79]

View attachment 252996

This is the base setup.

442 is a flat formation, meaning you need to use roaming roles and very fluid team shape. A proper way to play very fluid team shape is with attacking mentality, and a proper set of TI's for attacking is this:

View attachment 252994

So how does it play? You must understand that defend duties hold their position, attack duties go only forward, and support duties move around.

In this case, when attacking, two BTB move forward into AMC positions, strikers hold, two WPS move into CM position, and FB automatic (will be on attack with attack mentality) moves forward to winger position.
When defending, two BTB move to DM position, two WPS move into CM position and others hold, essentially gaining Brasilian formation.

Result:

View attachment 252993


If anyone wants a proper 442, here you go:

 

[Fusershift]

You can use any fluidity for a formation.

 

[Igneos79]

You can use any fluidity for a formation.

Of course. You can also play tennis with a ping pong ball..

 

[Mike.]

Of course. You can also play tennis with a ping pong ball..

Enough of the snidey remarks. There is no optimum fluidity for a formation.

 

[Igneos79]

Enough of the snidey remarks. There is no optimum fluidity for a formation.

Then go play highly structured with a flat formation, and watch all your gaps get exploited...

 

[Mike.]

Then go play highly structured with a flat formation, and watch all your gaps get exploited...

I have played with highly structured 4-4-2. I use a CM/d to drop into the pocket and the deep lying forward to create a link, I can tuck in my wide mid on support to create a midfield triangle which allows my full back to overlap, which means I can create an overload at that point too.

You don't need to play very fluid with attacking either.

These rules you are making do not exist. If you want to attempt to play that way, but certainly do not pass it round this community like its correct, we don't deal in misinformation here.

 

[WJ]

I have played with highly structured 4-4-2. I use a CM/d to drop into the pocket and the deep lying forward to create a link, I can tuck in my wide mind on support to create a midfield triangle which allows my full back to overlap, which means I can create an overload at that point too.

You don't need to play very fluid with attacking either.

These rules you are making do not exist. If you want to attempt to play that way, but certainly do not pass it round this community like its correct, we don't deal in misinformation here.

It's that sticky thread. The sooner it's removed as a sticky, the better, imo.

 

[Mike.]

It's that sticky thread. The sooner it's removed as a sticky, the better, imo.

Link?

 

[WJ]

Link?

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/foot...ics/205292-team-shape-roles-duties-guide.html

It's been the main reason for all the arguments on here and it's very, very limiting and frankly wrong, imo.

 

[Igneos79]

I have played with highly structured 4-4-2. I use a CM/d to drop into the pocket and the deep lying forward to create a link, I can tuck in my wide mid on support to create a midfield triangle which allows my full back to overlap, which means I can create an overload at that point too.

You don't need to play very fluid with attacking either.

These rules you are making do not exist. If you want to attempt to play that way, but certainly do not pass it round this community like its correct, we don't deal in misinformation here.

I do not think it is misinformation, I think it is correct. Same thing is with my TI's that everyone is against. When you play control, forwards naturally play more direct and defenders shorter. What people here do is make both direct, or both shorter. What I do is what I think correct. Also, for example with counter mentality, closing down naturally drops off, and people here tend to close down more in their tactics. What i do, is close down less. With counter mentality for example, people tend to push up, while normally the d line drops off. What i do is drop deep. And in the end, all these tactics people here create work only with top clubs, while mine work everywhere. I think it's because mine are normal, and theirs aren't. Some may argue there is no proper way of doing things, but I beleive there is, and my results prove it. It's not just about results, it's about things happening naturally on the pitch, as they are meant to happen. Some people make a counter tactic and then use roaming roles against teams who aren't attacking them, I don't. I use counter when I'm attacked, and control or attack if opponent defends. And yes, it is what I think the proper way of doing things. If you roam in a counter tactic, you wont be good at countering which is what it is meant for. And the sticky is correct. You are wrong at using a dlfs in a highly structured style. Highly structured doesn't exist for the fun of it, it exist for a reason, and it's because of sticking to position and discipline required for defending, and being in position to receive that deep ball to start a counter. And if you are sitting deep and have all that space in front of you, you want a striker with attack duty to run into that space. It all actually fits like a puzzle. No misinformation here. The fact 99% of people is making flawed tactics is not my problem. People here make a flawed tactic, and then use extreme PI to make it work ok. I'm almsot inclined to make a bet they will remove fluidity altogether in one of the next FM's.

 

[Igneos79]

There is also a reason for being able to train three tactics. If you are a top club, you want to train attack tactic against weak teams, control tactic for medium teams, and standard tactic for similar teams. If you are fighting relegation, you should train defend tactics against superior clubs that will try to dominate you, counter tactics against teams trying to control the match, and standard tactic against similiar teams. By using the appropriate and correct one for each match, or even changing it during the match, you can have perfect seasons. But you will need a balanced squad to fit all three tactics. A perfect match in football will end 0-0, as it means both you and the opponent attacked and defended perfectly.

 

[Mike.]

You're wrong. I know you're wrong because my evidence comes from those who actually work on the game and the Tactical interface.

 

[Igneos79]

You're wrong. I know you're wrong because my evidence comes from those who actually work on the game and the Tactical interface.

Well I ceirtainly don't work with or talk with anyone, I just play the game and learn, albeit slowly. What I have learned so far, I have put to use, and the results are fantastic, and the team plays exactly as they should. If you have the will and the time, try playing like I suggest, you might change your mind about things.

 

[WJ]

Well I ceirtainly don't work with or talk with anyone, I just play the game and learn, albeit slowly. What I have learned so far, I have put to use, and the results are fantastic, and the team plays exactly as they should. If you have the will and the time, try playing like I suggest, you might change your mind about things.

You're learning slowly because you're not taking the good advice you're given.

 

[macca72]

Igneos, I think you have some nice theories, and it would be good to open these up to a discussion.

I think the problem you have is that you pass a lot off as absolute fact, whereas some of it is just opinion.

You seem to have a reasoned approach to the game, I would really just urge you to read a few more bits and pieces, particularly from people like rashidi etc (blog link Addicted to FM | Training and Tactics Corner).

 

[callamity]

Can't understand why this isn't closed yet. Another thread full of how not to make tactics

 

[Igneos79]

You're learning slowly because you're not taking the good advice you're given.

On the contrary. in 2011, when I set myself on the quest to learn football tactics, I've been like a sponge. Absorbing everything anyone of importance have said. Reading blogs, newspaper articles, forums, sites, everything I could get my hands on. And as I learned, I tested what I learned. Over 10000 hours of testing tactics since then, everything that made sense and what did not. That process isn't over, this is just the conclusion so far. And I was struggling real hard and ragequitting on a regular basis, only to return with a new idea to test. And then finally sticky cleared up the mess, and everything started working as it should. I'm not sure where I learned that attack duties will occuppy a spot higher, that defend duties will stay put, and support move around, but when I combined that with rules from sticky, and TI's that I learned from watching the sliders move as I changed shouts, I got a final product. And it works how it is intended to work, naturally. I learned everything should scale properly, one option with another, like a puzzle. And it was a long and nerves costly process. Which is why I'm not buying anyone elses advice anymore. I simply know better then they do.

 

[Igneos79]

Igneos, I think you have some nice theories, and it would be good to open these up to a discussion.

I think the problem you have is that you pass a lot off as absolute fact, whereas some of it is just opinion.

You seem to have a reasoned approach to the game, I would really just urge you to read a few more bits and pieces, particularly from people like rashidi etc (blog link Addicted to FM | Training and Tactics Corner).

I've been reading his blog for a long time now. Some of the stuff he says are correct, some are unfortunately not. I tested it. All of it. Just like guidetoffotballmanager.com or mypassion4fm or truefootballmanager. Learned some bits and pieces of usefull info, but some of the things are plain wrong.

 

[WJ]

Lol.

 

[macca72]

I've been reading his blog for a long time now. Some of the stuff he says are correct, some are unfortunately not. I tested it. All of it. Just like guidetoffotballmanager.com or mypassion4fm or truefootballmanager. Learned some bits and pieces of usefull info, but some of the things are plain wrong.

Not sure about the other 2, but rashidi is one that I would trust almost implicitly.

Do you have any more context to share on your approach, things like what you change in game to react to opposition, how you develop players, how can roles be changed?

You seem to have invested a lot of time, energy and passion into the game, so I'm interested to understand how you piece it together to win. I imagine your win percentage is pretty impressive?