A proper 4-4-2 for testing

[Fusershift]

Care to explain how they're wrong?

 

[Igneos79]

Not sure about the other 2, but rashidi is one that I would trust almost implicitly.

Do you have any more context to share on your approach, things like what you change in game to react to opposition, how you develop players, how can roles be changed?

You seem to have invested a lot of time, energy and passion into the game, so I'm interested to understand how you piece it together to win. I imagine your win percentage is pretty impressive?

I don't know squat about players. Or set pieces. Or OI's. This is all I have so far, I said I learn slowly. And no, I don't win all my matches yet. I like to press continue and quick pick like a maniac, so that is probably the main reason. I do that beacuse I rarely get a club with a balanced squad to test all my tactics, so I usually just test one tactic, until I lose, then I replay that match and observe why I lost and make changes accordingly. What I did wron all this time is trying to change counter and defend tactics into control and attacking ones, without making changes to mentality, I saw that works for others. When I tried changing everything completly, keeping counter for when I get attacked, and switching to a specialised, control, or attack tactic when opponent was defending, that did the trick. If I tried other peoples approach, push up with a counter tactic, I would never get enough counters to make it count for when I got attacked, although it worked well against similar teams. I use non specialised roles because it simplifies the creation of tactic. Specialised roles can be used if you understand their movement and what place their will occupy on the pitch. This is important, because you don't want two players occupying same space.

 

[Igneos79]

Care to explain how they're wrong?

They test something and it works, and they talk about it. Then I read about it, test it with 10 different teams, ranging from england to indonesia, top, medium, and low clubs, and it turns out it does work, but only with 7 out of 10 teams, for example. Then I analyse why it didn't work with others, and the result is almost always the same. It was unnatural. Pushing up in a counter tactic, or shorter passing with agressive mentality for example. I make changes, and it works with 10 out of 10 teams.

 

[WJ]

On the contrary. in 2011, when I set myself on the quest to learn football tactics, I've been like a sponge. Absorbing everything anyone of importance have said. Reading blogs, newspaper articles, forums, sites, everything I could get my hands on. And as I learned, I tested what I learned. Over 10000 hours of testing tactics since then, everything that made sense and what did not. That process isn't over, this is just the conclusion so far. And I was struggling real hard and ragequitting on a regular basis, only to return with a new idea to test. And then finally sticky cleared up the mess, and everything started working as it should. I'm not sure where I learned that attack duties will occuppy a spot higher, that defend duties will stay put, and support move around, but when I combined that with rules from sticky, and TI's that I learned from watching the sliders move as I changed shouts, I got a final product. And it works how it is intended to work, naturally. I learned everything should scale properly, one option with another, like a puzzle. And it was a long and nerves costly process. Which is why I'm not buying anyone elses advice anymore. I simply know better than they do.

Okay, if you insist, let me take aim at the fish in a barrel.

1 - You beat Southampton (Predicted 8th) with Arsenal (Predicted 4th). Alert the world media. Final product? One game? One team? Dear God.

2 - Almost every (all??) 4-4-2's have one steady, holding midfielder and a runner. Yours features two runners, a good recipe for disaster, because you're leaving the hole between defence and midfield wide open. In possession? 4 midfielders in a nice, neat line - useless as far as passing options go.

3 - Almost every (all??) 4-4-2's feature one striker who drops deeper (big man ; creator) and another who pushes forward (small man ; scorer) and yours do not. Remember passing options? You have, but no one threatening.

Here's where it gets juicy.

4 - ATTACKING - This is what you look like in possession:

View attachment 252849 View attachment 252847

Image 1 - Please thank Giroud. His PPM of Moves Into Channels has given Rosicky 1 passing option. Notice how everyone else is nicely arrange in a line. No passing triangles. No pulling of defenders to create space.

Image 2 - The fullbacks on Auto duty (which means Attack Duty in Attacking mentality) are pushing up now. This time, please thank Welbeck, who is using his PPM of Likes to Beat Offside Trap. Notice again the nice straight line your midfield makes. Route one has exactly one player in it, Welbeck, who is only there because of his own tendencies. Rosicky has no options, so he shoots.

Now, with no Defend duty (remember what I said about a holder?) you're so open, it's not even funny. Lookie:

View attachment 252839

Rudolph has just pumped it up to Lewandowski and there's big trouble. In fact, the No.8 Martinez is a constant threat, because he gets in between the D and M lines often unmarked. Your 2 midfielders struggle to close 3 midfielders and get pulled apart.

View attachment 252837



It's NOT a good tactic. It's horrific. Mike was spot on in post #6. That's what's needed in a 442. In fact, the only thing that rescued this tactic a little, were PPMs. Ozil has Comes Deep. Sanchez Likes to Beat Offside Trap (although he didn't try and do that much) and then Welbeck and Giroud with their PPMs I mentioned.

Try this tactic with a team that does not have PPMs and you'll fail even harder.

EDIT : That last one is a GIF. Not sure if it's working, but open in a new tab and it will.

 

[Fusershift]

They test something and it works, and they talk about it. Then I read about it, test it with 10 different teams, ranging from england to indonesia, top, medium, and low clubs, and it turns out it does work, but only with 7 out of 10 teams, for example. Then I analyse why it didn't work with others, and the result is almost always the same. It was unnatural. Pushing up in a counter tactic, or shorter passing with agressive mentality for example. I make changes, and it works with 10 out of 10 teams.

Or maybe that specific tactic suited their team and not yours?

 

[WJ]

They test something and it works, and they talk about it. Then I read about it, test it with 10 different teams, ranging from england to indonesia, top, medium, and low clubs, and it turns out it does work, but only with 7 out of 10 teams, for example. Then I analyse why it didn't work with others, and the result is almost always the same. It was unnatural. Pushing up in a counter tactic, or shorter passing with agressive mentality for example. I make changes, and it works with 10 out of 10 teams.

I call complete and utter bullshit. There will be reasons for you failing with it. Provide examples of their inaccuracies, please.

 

[Igneos79]

Like I said, it's an attack tactic, and it will work against teams defending from you. Find a top team at it's league that has players for it and doesn't have PPM's and test again. You will lose against good teams playing control or at least struggle.

 

[WJ]

Like I said, it's an attack tactic, and it will work against teams defending from you.

No idea what that means.

Anyway, you said the B2Bs move to DM and the WPs to CM. That's not what happens. The formation you set is the defensive shape. The WPs stay wide and the B2Bs stay at CM, until your closing down settings kick in very deep in your half. Still, there's almost always a gap between the lines.

 

[Igneos79]

No idea what that means.

Anyway, you said the B2Bs move to DM and the WPs to CM. That's not what happens. The formation you set is the defensive shape. The WPs stay wide and the B2Bs stay at CM, until your closing down settings kick in very deep in your half. Still, there's almost always a gap between the lines.

It means it is most suitable to average fourth season, when you earn rep, and have great players and everyone defends from you. Stop bullshiting me. Plug it into your long term save if you have one and test.

 

[callamity]

View attachment 252797

 

[WJ]

It means it is most suitable to average fourth season, when you earn rep, and have great players and everyone defends from you. Stop bullshiting me.

You didn't say that in the beginning, ffs!

And I suppose what you mean is that everyone sets up very defensively against you? Don't know if you cannot see the images I posted, but I came up against a defensive team who tried to hit me on the counter.

This tactic is worse when teams defend heavily against you because it offers no movement between the lines apart from the fullbacks and it's not enough.

 

[WJ]

It means it is most suitable to average fourth season, when you earn rep, and have great players and everyone defends from you. Stop bullshiting me. Plug it into your long term save if you have one and test.

So 4th season as a dominant team only against very defensive teams? Is that why you chose to show a result from a game from season 1 and a team slightly weaker at home who won't sit back that much?

 

[Igneos79]

So 4th season as a dominant team only against very defensive teams? Is that why you chose to show a result from a game from season 1 and a team slightly weaker at home who won't sit back that much?

I'm done here. Back to ignore list both of you

 

[WJ]

I'm done here. Back to ignore list both of you

All good. I'll wait for your next alias, Gorstak. Be a little less obvious next time.

 

[WJ]

I'm done here. Back to ignore list both of you

Not fair, by the way. I tested this 'proper' 442 as per the thread title. Because I showed it to be ****, with proper analysis and images, I'm put on the ignore list. Life is so unfair.

 

[Mike.]

Closing this thread. Igneous you cannot create tactics with flawed theory and then complain that flawed theory is exposed. I suggest you stop trying to push that across.