AMAZING 4-4-2 COUNTER TACTIC YOU'VE BEEN DREAMING ABOUT!

[Fulhamswede]

Again, cheers for that Marco.


Could you name 4-5 players that would be ideal for cd (st), cm (d) and dlf

cm (d) I guess Wanyama is ideal? And dlf Zlatan?

 

[Atarin]

Again, cheers for that Marco.


Could you name 4-5 players that would be ideal for cd (st), cm (d) and dlf

cm (d) I guess Wanyama is ideal? And dlf Zlatan?

It depends on your budget and what quality your opponents have across the pitch. Go to your Team Report page. Click on the Comparison tab. Across the top there is General, All Positionings, Goalkeepers.etc Make sure you've selected Mental. Now go down to the tick boxes and make sure you've only got Defenders ticked. Now this should show you not only how you rate (the size of the bar) but also what the division average is in that attribute (the short gray line that cuts across the bar) as well as the division high (the golden line across the top).

So if you see that the average in your division for Bravery of Defenders is 17, then that's what you're looking for to even be competitive. You need to check that for Aggression, Anticipation, Bravery, Concentration, Determination, Positioning. Write down what you find. Then change it from Mental to Technical and check for Tackling & Heading. Then change tab so you can see physical and do the same for Strength. Now you'll have an idea what an average and a good defender looks like in that division. You really need to do this every time you play a new save, get promoted/relegated and after a Transfer Window has closed So rather than getting me to help you scout for your side its better that you learn the skills so that you can do that for yourself.

The attributes that I would check for CM(d) are very similar. Remember to tick only Midfielders. We know that we want a professional, hard working individual so we want Bravery, Determination, Team Work & Work Rate. We know we want them in the right position so we need Positioning, we know we want them to anticipate danger so Anticipation and we know the CM(d) is told to tackle harder and Mark Tighter so we're going to need Marking, Concentration, Tackling and possibly Aggression. Check what the divisional average is for this and write it all down.

For the DLF its a bit trickier because there are so many different kinds of DLF. The PIs tell the player to Dribble More so we might look for Dribbling, the player is told to Tackle harder so we're going to need Bravery and it probably makes sense for them to not have a horrible rating in tackling, although my DLFs can't tackle and they seem fine. We know a DLF(s) has to be able to hold the ball up so First Touch, Strength and Balance could be crucial. Lastly what is a DLF mostly used for? Finding space away from the defenders and picking a pass to a more advanced striker. In that case he's going to need Off The Ball, Passing, Vision and possibly Decisions if you can find someone with it. Again once you've checked these off you've got a pretty good idea what you're going to need depending on your budget, your board's expectations and of course your own ambitions.

Now you've got all of that written down you can go into the Scouting screen and begin to search for players that fit the bill. You might not find a whole bunch of players that fit the criteria so prioritise. Make sure you've got as many of the essentials that I've outlined as possible and leave other attributes until you've got the funds to buy big

It is a lot of work but this is how you do it. I didn't used to and what used to happen is that I would buy players that "looked" good, they had a whole bunch of amazing attributes. What I didn't realise is that these attributes wouldn't help me because they were in the wrong areas. You have to know exactly what you want in the transfer market for. To do that you need to know exactly what kind of player your tactic needs, and I mean exactly. If he's a player that Marks tightly then you have to prioritise Marking & Concentration. the Passing attribute might have to be sacrificed.

Hope this helps mate.

 

[Atarin]

One other thing did you remember to set the opposition instructions that the original poster provides in the opening post? Very important to make the tactic work.

 

[Fulhamswede]

Tried it with West Ham.

Tactic fully fluid. 19 league games, 7 wins, 6 draws and 6 losses. -2 i GD.

Im sorry, but this is just too unstable for me. Getting some really good results (United away 1-0 win, Spurs home 2-1 win) but way too many losses that shouldnt have been (Everton away 0-3, Burnley away 1-5, Watford home 0-1). Overall I find this tactic too be somewhat of a paradox. Your player ratings are ****, below 7.00 except a lucky few key players, the opposition is hammering you but somehow you still manage to get wins and points. I think the tactic is onto something but right now its not working in a satisfying way.

I dont think that a good tactic requires specific teams to work. A really good tactic makes it work as long as you get the player roles somewhat right.

Arbeloa/Byram/Cresswell are all great fullbacks with high tam work, work rate and so on.
Kouyate and Obiang have really good defensive attributes that should work for a Cm d.
Feghouli, Antonio, Snodgrass and Ayew are all as good wingers and wide mids as you're going to find in any other team.
Diakho, Calleri and Wells should be able to make it work as well up front.

 

[Fulhamswede]

Hahaha, well **** me. Tried it with Chelsea.

Spurs a 0-2
Swansea a 0-2
Reading h 0-2
Arsenal a 0-3

Kanté as CM d, Matic as Cm. Hazard as w and Pedro as WM. Terry as stopper, Luiz as his partner. Lukaku and Costa up front.

This tactic does not work in England.

However...

I did try it with swedish top team Malmö and after 11 league games ive only conceded 2 goals. 27 points, 8 wins and 3 draws. So, maybe its an England-thing?

 

[Atarin]

It does work in England, not only that but it works as far down as the Conference South.

As my early posts show I was playing as Hampton & Richmond, expected to finish 11th or 12th, my players weren't exactly world beaters (again, you can see all of this from my screenshots). I had recruited as well as my budget would allow (which was not a lot). I concentrated on the bare essentials.

We had been stumbling around in mid table, using a fairly defensive 4-1-2-2-1/4-3-3 until I started trying this tactic and pretty quickly it just clicked. You do have to have the right players as I said but they don't have to be world beaters, just suited to the role. Not only did my team surge up the table into 4th, qualifying for the play-offs but I did this whilst losing my best DLF & my best DC(st) for months through serious injury. Their replacements were nowhere near as good.

I presume that you followed the instructions, including the Opposition Instructions? I presume that you also took my advice about adjusting the defensive line? The latter is important because the AI isn't just going to stand by and let you rip it to shreds. It will change mentality, fluidity, roles, duties and even formation to try to get back into the match or keep you out. You don't have to do anything crazy to deal with that just trust in the tactic, what it does and adjust little things like the defensive line. I admit that I'm not very good at choosing my defensively line when it comes to breaking teams down, I've still got a lot to learn about that but I do use it quite often defensively, and its very, very simple. If they are trying to work the ball into your net then don't let them get close - raise your defensive line. If they want to get in behind then don't allow them the space - lower your defensive line. You'll know what they want to do by how high up the pitch they are playing, what sort of runs their forwards are making and what kind of passes the midfield are playing in your half. If the forwards are dropping off, going wide or making sideways runs then they're trying to work their way towards goal - easy - raise the defensive line. If the forwards are staying very close to your defenders and trying to break into space at every opportunity and the passes are travelling longer distances then they are trying to get behind you - easy - drop your defensive line.

I didn't win every game, I lost 3 and drew 1, we were very poor in those games. I'm still studying the data to try to find out why, exactly, we under-performed. Although, there is always the possibility that we just came up against a better side that was able to exploit our system's weakness. Every tactic has weaknesses. If it doesn't then its not realistic and is essentially an exploit tactic, which is fine but where's the fun in that? If you can't be beaten then you, the player, are almost irrelevant. The fun of the game is having to come up with the solutions your self.

As I say I'm not perfect, I lose, I draw. I go on bad runs, I get frustrated. The thing is to calm down and understand why your team didn't get the win or the draw. Sometimes is the players (but you signed them or selected them), sometimes its your tactic (its up to you whether you adapt mid-game or not - if you don't then you can't complain if there was no improvement), sometimes its just one of those things.

The biggest problem with playing with downloaded tactics is that people often don't know what it is that this tactic does so they can't tweak it when it needs to be tweaked. The best advice I ever got was to go back to basics. Understand mentality. Understand Fluidity. Understand the roles. Understand Duties. Understand the Tis. Understand the Pis. Understand combinations.etc

Once you begin to understand what everything does, even if its only a little bit, then you can start to see what the tactic that you've downloaded is trying to achieve. THEN you can see why it might not be working the way that you want.

The tactic clearly does work though, in England too.

 

[Atarin]

From analysing my defeats I have drawn some tentative conclusions. My statistical performance was very good. I won on nearly every comparison; tackles, headers, passes, possession, shots, ccc's...everything. The games I lost had a number of common features.

*I have deliberately ignored our first game using the tactic as (a) the tactic wasn't fluid & (b) my player selection was bad.

1: We didn't take our chances.
2: Half of the goals that denied us points came from direct free-kicks or penalties. Not from open play (i.e - tactical failure).
3: Of the remaining two goals that cost us points one was a horrendous back pass error in the 6 yard box & the other was a tap in from a cross.

Initially I thought there may be something significant in the Action Zones. This tactic is designed to funnel the opposition attacks down the flanks and invite them to cross where your CB's & CM(d) can deal with it. I noticed that in the games we lost the opposition managed to funnel over 50% of their attacks down the middle. When I cross-checked it against my victories though this wasn't unusual. I'm still trying to understand this, as the tactic is clearly trying to force teams out wide. What is interesting is that none of the goals that I conceded came down the middle. So this Action Zones thing is probably nothing to worry about.

So what is? For the most part it seems to be the three points listed above. When we don't score we always run the risk of making a mistake and conceding. This can happen with players with attributes like my players, they're not world class, they make mistakes.

I noticed my goalkeeper was responsible on a couple of occasions with letting in cheap goals. His attributes look pretty good so I'm trying to uncover what is going on. He doesn't like big games so maybe that is to blame.

All in all I can't see anything to suggest that the tactic us under-performing. You just need your strikers to be critical and make sure you are meticulous when it comes to player attitude and personality. Bad or weak characters will let you down.

 

[ShizaaCorinthians]

What training you suggest?

 

[Atarin]

What training you suggest?

This Tactic's creator hasn't been around so I'll try and answer.

For me training depends on (1) the quality of the players that you have available. (2) What you're looking to achieve with your squad and (3) the size of your squad. There are other factors but, for me, these are the main three.

As regards to (1), If there are areas where a player can improve in regards to their role then focus on that. Basically the requirements for Roles are really easy to find. When you go to a player's profile screen the roles in which they can play should be listed down the bottom left of the screen. Just select the right role plus the duty and the attributes they need should be highlighted. These are the areas that the player will need to be strong in. Go to the training screen and just tell them to train the right role. That should take care of most of it. There may be a couple of other things though.

Take the FB(a) - he's instructed to Shoot More Often. This might mean that you want to include Finishing, Long Shots &/or Technique, which don't come as part of the regular FB training schedule. The W(s) - is instructed to Tackle Harder - so add Tackling. he's instructed to Shoot More Often, so again, Finishing, Long Shots & Technique. Your WM(a) is instructed to Tackle Harder - so add Tackling, he's instructed to Dribble More - so, Dribbling, Technique, Agility and Balance. The strikers are instructed to Tackle Harder so - add Tackling, if you want, I don't.

I would also say anyone with low Stamina should be given that as well because its a hard working tactic.

FB(a) - Train as Fullback + Finishing, Long Shots, Technique and Stamina.
W(s) - Train as Winger + Tackling, Finishing, Long Shots, Technique, Stamina.
WM(a) - Train as Wide Midfielder + Tackling, Dribbling, Long Shots, Technique, Agility & Balance
DLF(s) - Train as DLF + Tackling (Optional), Stamina
P(a) - Train as Poacher - Tackling (Optional), Stamina

The rest of the players should be fine being trained with just the standard Roles demanded by the tactic.




if your players are already perfectly suited to their role then skip this step. i.e - if everyone is already quality at their specific role then its time to think about (2). What are you trying to achieve? Are you all about developing players or do you focus on short term goals and players are just tools that you offload as soon as they've served their purpose? If you're trying to develop them then just try to make them as well rounded a player as possible. If you've got an excellent attacking wide player FB/MF then see if you can given them some defensive roundedness by training them as a DFB. If you've got a solid CB see if you can give them a little extra on the ball by training them as a BPD or CM. If you've got skillful CMs then see if you can train some DCB skills. For me its about giving my players a roundedness so they are adaptable. Never be afraid to train a player's weaker foot - no matter what your stupid *** Man says. Never be afraid to retrain a Right Winger as a Left Winger, or a Striker as an AM, an AM as a CM.etc

Everyone does it differently.

Lastly, (3, if you've got a small squad then I'd advise not over training. Focus on the absolute necessities and leave it at that. You don't want your players burning out.

Hope that helps.

 

[Atarin]

Another thing I've noticed, by experimenting in pre-season, is that I find it very tough against narrow formations. Midfield diamonds cause us problems, 4-1-3-2's cause us problems, 4-2-3-1's where the wide players cut in cause us problems. This is because the tactic is set up to to isolate wide players and force opposition attacks wide. One little thing that I have done is to drop my strikers back and use them as AMs. Now the roles you choose will depend on their attributes, I'd generally play the faster one, usually the poacher, as a SS. If they can both do that job even better. My DLP can't so I used him as an AM(s).

Normally I hate strikerless systems but if you only use it occasionally when the situation calls for it then its bearable. What it seems to do is restrict the narrow formations ability to build attacks and that, in turn, makes them switch to going wide at which point we can switch to our Plan A & push the two strikers back up front. If the opposition switch back, then so do we. Its little things like that are what make the game so interesting. The days of being able to download a tactic and pretty much just press Continue and let the tactic do the rest are over. The AI adapts. You've got to adapt as well. Raise and lower your D-Line. Drop your strikers back even replace a striker with a DM against a tough opponent for the last 15 minutes if you're leading. Don't be scares to try stuff. This tactic is a great foundation to build from.

This tactic is loosely based on Leicester in their title winning season. They managed to get through the whole season with minimal injuries, no serious cup runs, no Europe & their opponents were mostly going through rebuilds and transitions. They rode the wave and didn't have to change much about their system. It was the equivalent to the starting odds in the game being huge and the AI taking a long time to work out that this over-performing underdog needs to be reconsidered. Look what happened in the following season though...teams had finally caught up. They had worked Leicester out. No one was going to make the same mistakes again. No more ridiculously over-confident high-line. No more allowing themselves to be funnelled out wide. No more letting Mahrez cut inside.etc Leicester fell apart. Ranieri desperately looked for a new system but his confused players weren't good enough to play any other way. It was only once teams stopped taking Leicester seriously that they were able to go back to playing their underdog football and having reasonable success with it.

I could say so much more about this interesting tactic and the parallels between real life and the game but I think I should probably just play the game.

 

[ShizaaCorinthians]

Thanks, very useful tips, i'm quite liking the tactic so far, playing with Bordeaux i won 3-2 against Real Madrid in an friendly, and i played with 9 players since the 70th minute and still managed to win.

What about general training tho? I'm currently doing Defending and match training doing Att. Movement, but i'm undecided between Defending or Tactical, what you suggest?

 

[Atarin]

In all honesty I just leave it on General/Average. My assistant reminds me to increase intensity in pre-season but for the rest of the time I literally never bother to touch it.