Arsenal must decide if they really want to win, says Cesc Fábregas

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Arsenal must decide if they really want to win, says Cesc Fábregas
• Captain frustrated that club has won nothing since 2005
• 'A decision has to be made: to win or to develop players'


Arsenal must decide if they really want to win, says Cesc Fábregas | Football | The Guardian

David Hytner
guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 19 April 2011 18.22 BST

Cesc Fábregas has voiced grave misgivings over Arsenal's refusal to spend big in the transfer market, saying the club must decide whether they want to "go out to win or to develop players".

Fábregas has revealed his frustration at Arsenal's failure to take the "final step" on the eve of his team's to Tottenham Hotspur, when they will attempt to revive their faltering Premier League title challenge. He also said that the managers of the top clubs in his native Spain would not survive three years without winning a trophy. Arsène Wenger's Arsenal have won nothing since the FA Cup in 2005.

"If you went to Spain and said to [Pep] Guardiola, [José] Mourinho or Unai Emery [the Valencia manager] that they would have three years without winning a trophy, it would be obvious they would not continue [at their clubs]," the Arsenal captain said.

"Here, it is different, the manager is intelligent and the club value different things: that the team is always in the Champions League, that we compete until the end, that we have young players, economic stability. For the board, this is important. But I imagine there will be a moment when you have to decide: do you win things or not?

"When I started here, we won the Cup [in 2005] and got to the Champions League final [in 2006]. Barça beat us with an extra man and it was not a victory but it was the first time that the club had got to a Champions League final. Millions of players had played here and it was us that did it.

"But from 2007 on, I started to say: 'We don't win but we play very well.' And after that you realise that it doesn't work. You enjoy it, during a part of the season, like this year when we were in four different competitions and you say: 'Here, I have it all.' But then you cannot make the final step and it is here where a decision has to be made: to go out to win or to develop players."

Fábregas, who joined Arsenal as a 16-year-old from Barcelona at the beginning of the 2003-04 season, said he had enjoyed learning from the club's Invincibles [who were unbeaten that season]. But he lamented the lack of experienced "reference points" in the current squad.

"I was in a winning team and it was impressive," he said. "You felt that if you had a bad game, nothing happened because your team-mates helped you. Now, a lot has changed, and I am the man that everyone looks to. I don't like to say it but it is true. If I play badly, I take responsibility and the pressure of the supporters. Only me and [Robin] Van Persie remain of that generation, and we have a lot of responsibility. Me and Van Persie learned from the best. Now it is different because we are all so young and there is nobody you look at and say: 'Wow.'

"Young players learn from the older ones. Now, it is more complicated. If you put [Jack] Wilshere in the team that played before … it is different. I am not saying better or worse. Before, there were reference points, winning and strong players and playing with them, you learned faster."

Fábregas has been heavily linked over the past two summers with a return to Barcelona and it feels inevitable that the saga will be reprised once more. "The day that I leave Arsenal, it will be with my head and not just because," Fábregas said. "And who says you will play in your new team? Or that you will develop? Here, I have a lot of luck on a personal level – despite not winning a lot – and I am doing very well.

"I speak with [the Barcelona captain Carles] Puyol, who says that he didn't win a thing until he was 26. Patience and hard work are the most important things in life. You will not see me [convinced by an ambitious project]. And if one day I leave Arsenal, it will never be to sign for another English club. That is for certain."
 
He speaks the truth, I'm surprised we managed to even reach 2nd place this late in the season with a lot of our players to be honest. Denilson, Diaby, Squillaci, Arshavin (Recently), Bendtner. These are not players that you would find in other top clubs in this League, why do we continue to give them chances when they simply don't have the quality?

Can see Fabregas leaving this summer unfortunately.
 
Fabregas telling it how it is. Arsene to spend in the summer or lose him to Barca, imo.
 
He speaks the truth, I'm surprised we managed to even reach 2nd place this late in the season with a lot of our players to be honest. Denilson, Diaby, Squillaci, Arshavin (Recently), Bendtner. These are not players that you would find in other top clubs in this League, why do we continue to give them chances when they simply don't have the quality?

Can see Fabregas leaving this summer unfortunately.


i think you could have him for 2-3 years, but this summer is Wenger's last chance to convince him that arsenal can win trophies. And im talking about in terms of going out and signing top top players. thats the only way i can see him staying for next season and beyond
 
Can see Fabregas leaving this summer unfortunately.

Me too. Shame really, but he's right. We can't keep not winning things. We're still a big club even being potless for 6 years. If Fabregas does go it'll mean another year of waiting for a trophy, I mean I don't think Song-Wilshere-Ramsey will be strong enough a midfield to compete with Chelsea's and United's.
 
Fabregas telling it how it is. Arsene to spend in the summer or lose him to Barca, imo.

Talking about barcelona, Xavi said the same thing, while he loves arsenals style and philosophy, if barca went two seasons without a trophy and the player needed was out there, they would go and buy him and fill that gap. you cant say the same about Arsenal
 
Oh ffs. Always going to be a thread for this...

1. Without being rude, Mike - Can I ask why you post this now, 10 minutes after your own side have dropped points? Just seems a little bit of a coincidence.. distracting from Utd's own failings tonight or whatever.

2. A lot of it has been mistranslated/twisted/taken out of context. People saying he's suggesting Wenger needs to go, or he's losing the plot/whatever are reading too much into it.

Actually - you know what - I'm not even going to try and make a defence for this. I'm not in the mood and too many people are going to troll/make assumptions or for Gooners; just be ridiculously depressing and negative.

If what he's saying HASN'T been lost in translation, and he (despite being a product of both Arsenal and Barcelona's Youth Academy/policy) doesn't appreciate any of it and isn't convinced by it, then he can leave. I don't think that's right, though - without Wenger, he wouldn't be anything like the player he is now and I think he knows that.
 
Oh ffs. Always going to be a thread for this...

1. Without being rude, Mike - Can I ask why you post this now, 10 minutes after your own side have dropped points? Just seems a little bit of a coincidence.. distracting from Utd's own failings tonight or whatever.

2. A lot of it has been mistranslated/twisted/taken out of context. People saying he's suggesting Wenger needs to go, or he's losing the plot/whatever are reading too much into it.

Actually - you know what - I'm not even going to try and make a defence for this. I'm not in the mood and too many people are going to troll/make assumptions or for Gooners; just be ridiculously depressing and negative.

If what he's saying HASN'T been lost in translation, and he (despite being a product of both Arsenal and Barcelona's Youth Academy/policy) doesn't appreciate any of it and isn't convinced by it, then he can leave. I don't think that's right, though - without Wenger, he wouldn't be anything like the player he is now and I think he knows that.

pfft get over it, I just spent 20 minutes talking about united's result. None of it is mistranslated or whatever. whether you're a gunner or not, most people realise he is bang on
 
i think you could have him for 2-3 years, but this summer is Wenger's last chance to convince him that arsenal can win trophies. And im talking about in terms of going out and signing top top players. thats the only way i can see him staying for next season and beyond

Wenger rarely let's pressure to buy players from outside the club affect his decisions, but how about if it comes from the Captain himself? Considering how obviously important he is to any current success we could achieve, I'd like to think he might do something to alleviate Fab's fears, but maybe I'm just being too optimistic. Still, I think it's important not to shell out shitloads of money, just 2 top quality players would make all the difference.
 
Fabregas is right and Wenger is to blame for this barren spell. Whilst he gets in good talented players cheaply, they simply arent good enough to win League titles and major trophies, the difference between winning a league title can be spending 3 or 4 million extra on a player, but he doesnt want to do this, He was linked with Schwarzer in the summer and bulked at fulham demanding 1million more then he wanted to pay, 1 million ******* pounds and then you have Alumnia in goal for a lot of games.
 
Wenger rarely let's pressure to buy players from outside the club affect his decisions, but how about if it comes from the Captain himself? Considering how obviously important he is to any current success we could achieve, I'd like to think he might do something to alleviate Fab's fears, but maybe I'm just being too optimistic. Still, I think it's important not to shell out shitloads of money, just 2 top quality players would make all the difference.

Yeah i'm not saying go berserk, but for 6 years you have been short of those 2 top players you need, i cant understand it. I respect Wenger a lot, but he is being too hard headed, at the clubs cost
 
Oh ffs. Always going to be a thread for this...

1. Without being rude, Mike - Can I ask why you post this now, 10 minutes after your own side have dropped points? Just seems a little bit of a coincidence.. distracting from Utd's own failings tonight or whatever.

2. A lot of it has been mistranslated/twisted/taken out of context. People saying he's suggesting Wenger needs to go, or he's losing the plot/whatever are reading too much into it.

Actually - you know what - I'm not even going to try and make a defence for this. I'm not in the mood and too many people are going to troll/make assumptions or for Gooners; just be ridiculously depressing and negative.

If what he's saying HASN'T been lost in translation, and he (despite being a product of both Arsenal and Barcelona's Youth Academy/policy) doesn't appreciate any of it and isn't convinced by it, then he can leave. I don't think that's right, though - without Wenger, he wouldn't be anything like the player he is now and I think he knows that.

I don't think he's criticising that at all. He's saying that they don't have the experienced players there that the younger players looked up to, as he references that he and RVP had, and that is causing a big effect in the mentality of the players.
"I was in a winning team and it was impressive," he said. "You felt that if you had a bad game, nothing happened because your team-mates helped you. Now, a lot has changed, and I am the man that everyone looks to. I don't like to say it but it is true. If I play badly, I take responsibility and the pressure of the supporters. Only me and [Robin] Van Persie remain of that generation, and we have a lot of responsibility. Me and Van Persie learned from the best. Now it is different because we are all so young and there is nobody you look at and say: 'Wow.'
I believe you're reading too much into this as an attack, rather than a criticism. There's a big difference. I've said many times that I do admire Arsenal's fiscal policy, but Wenger and fans can't ignore the problems in the squad and point to excuses. Your captain - your talisman - is laying bare the problems that he believes are wrong, and points to the differences in past and present. Surely the LEAST you, and as a club, can do is listen to him? He's asking for 1 or 2 experienced players to lead the young side, not throwing anything back in Wenger's face, and hardly asking too much from a 'big' club.
 
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Fabregas is right and Wenger is to blame for this barren spell. Whilst he gets in good talented players cheaply, they simply arent good enough to win League titles and major trophies, the difference between winning a league title can be spending 3 or 4 million extra on a player, but he doesnt want to do this, He was linked with Schwarzer in the summer and bulked at fulham demanding 1million more then he wanted to pay, 1 million ******* pounds and then you have Alumnia in goal for a lot of games.

thats the kind of thing i dont understand, for two young talented centrebacks, a figure like schwarzer would have been ideal, commanding, constant advice and instructions, keeping them focused
 
He needs to give up on this perfect football and mix it up a bit. Plenty of chances against us to get the byline and whip low/high crosses in to cause danger but Arsenal just don't do it.

So teams just defend deep and go really narrow knowing that Arsenal are just going to try and play through them all game. Don't get me wrong I love watching Arsenal play but nothing wrong with whipping a few crosses in every so often and switching it up.
 
have to say Cesc is right we need to sell the deadwood arsene and buy top quality players/backups

.
 
thats the kind of thing i dont understand, for two young talented centrebacks, a figure like schwarzer would have been ideal, commanding, constant advice and instructions, keeping them focused

it is stupid and the reason arsenal havent won the league this season tbh.
 
I somehow can't see Wenger changing his ways anytime soon. I think he's stil trying to recreate the football they played in 03/04, which will never happen.
 
Apart from a goalie, what they need is more players with determination (to avoid imploding toward the end of the season), drive, and most importantly-strength. They are in dire need of strength, or next season, they'll simply get bounced off the ball. You can't win trophies simply with flair. There's simply too much strength in the rest of the premiership, and they simply cannot handle it.
 
I somehow can't see Wenger changing his ways anytime soon. I think he's stil trying to recreate the football they played in 03/04, which will never happen.

03/04 was brilliant becuase they mixed steel with skill. they have bags of flair, but they had a midfield and defence that could go toe to toe in any physical fight, they had supreme grit and determination. Genuinely a side that would have gone to stoke and just basically physically battered them everythere, then outplay them
 
I think this is the last straw for Fab. He knows he should be winning trophies, he knows he could easily be playing for a team which is. If Wenger doesn't improve the squad this summer he loyalty will be severely tested. I wonder if Arsenal could and would ever actually sack Wenger?

I agree though that Wenger has always had his style of management, and I just can't see him changing it now.

---------- Post added at 10:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 PM ----------

it is stupid and the reason arsenal havent won the league this season tbh.

I don't think you can entirely put that down to not signing a keeper. They are simply too one dimensional against the strong teams which just sit deep and narrow and counter attack. Maybe signing a keeper would have helped them slightly, but IMO not much
 
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