Arsenal must decide if they really want to win, says Cesc Fábregas

[ajt09]

If it wasnt for the fact we have such a fine defender in Cole ahead of him that position would be his in a heartbeat, but he has enough to push cole out if cole falls out of form

Yeah, have to admit a bit of the bias in me came out there, but he has pretty much had a great season, in a pretty sub-par team performace (admittedly not helped with losing Piennar and injuries). At least England will have great cover in case Cole ever got injured.
But, if he did go to Arsenal, he'll pretty much be a great for the Gunners.

 

[curtis290]

For which position? command and control i would have brought Samba, alongside TV, Johan and Kos you have 2 quality commandind centrebacks backed up by two young and talented ones; but guess they missed the boat on that

Samba wouldn't have been cheap and then they'd have 5 CB's. Also, he's not technically good enough for Arsenal. They don't need a Rafa Marquez but you have to be more skilled than Samba. More importantly, the back 5 have to work as a unit. You can't just throw in a new defender in there and expect them to play well. I don't think it's a good idea to sign a CB mid-season unless it's absolutely necessary. We all thought Squillaci would do better, and I'm sure he will next season. If they wanted to sign a commanding, strong CB who's good in the air, they could have gotten Onyewu on a free.

You talk about injuries, well guess what every side has them, United have had 2 defensive crises this season, liverpool have had it, chelsea have etc

Except ManU wasn't missing Vidic for the whole season, or their three goalkeepers. I'm not making excuses, I'm just saying that if Arsenal can keep a few important players healthy, and I'm only thinking of three, Vermaelen (or Djorou), Fabregas, Van Persie, they will probably win something next year. Of course I could see them bottling a domestic cup and finishing two points behind ManU for the title, but all I'm saying is that they'll be a good year.

Up front, I would be pushing for Rossi or Lavezzi, particularly the latter

Rossi will be 30 mil so I think he's out of the question. I really like the idea of Lavezzi, but I think he'd be pretty expensive for a backup. I think Wenger would rather save their money and count on Vela being RVP's back-up, or Walcott when necessary. For their sake I hope Vela finally steps it up and fulfills his potential.

They need a left back you'd only have to look at Baines

If Clichy leaves they probably will need a left-back, but Baines will be expensive. They might have to settle on a cheap young talent and make Gibbs a starter.

 

[KidSparxx]

Being an Arsenal fan is about patience to me. Were great financially, have a great stadium, play great football and our team is so so close to winning something. I truly believe next year is our year.

Im also starting to understand Wengers policy and it leaves us in a great position in the future. Buying players will hinder the emergence of some of the youth players into the first team. For example if we had bought a goalkeeper where would Szczesny be? If we had bought another defender where would Djourou be?

The current policy of buying talent at 16 for next to nothing and nuturing them to replace the current team is good as in the future we will have a consistant influx of homegrown players into the first team ready made to replace the current starters. The policy was introduced in like 2004 or something and thats why were having a rough patch because our current starters havent matured yet.

For me money doesnt buy sucsess in the long term. I mean look at the current Barcelona team, arguably the best team ever, eight of their players are homegrown.

 

[Mike.]

Samba wouldn't have been cheap and then they'd have 5 CB's. Also, he's not technically good enough for Arsenal. They don't need a Rafa Marquez but you have to be more skilled than Samba. More importantly, the back 5 have to work as a unit. You can't just throw in a new defender in there and expect them to play well. I don't think it's a good idea to sign a CB mid-season unless it's absolutely necessary. We all thought Squillaci would do better, and I'm sure he will next season. If they wanted to sign a commanding, strong CB who's good in the air, they could have gotten Onyewu on a free.



Except ManU wasn't missing Vidic for the whole season, or their three goalkeepers. I'm not making excuses, I'm just saying that if Arsenal can keep a few important players healthy, and I'm only thinking of three, Vermaelen (or Djorou), Fabregas, Van Persie, they will probably win something next year. Of course I could see them bottling a domestic cup and finishing two points behind ManU for the title, but all I'm saying is that they'll be a good year.



Rossi will be 30 mil so I think he's out of the question. I really like the idea of Lavezzi, but I think he'd be pretty expensive for a backup. I think Wenger would rather save their money and count on Vela being RVP's back-up, or Walcott when necessary. For their sake I hope Vela finally steps it up and fulfills his potential.



If Clichy leaves they probably will need a left-back, but Baines will be expensive. They might have to settle on a cheap young talent and make Gibbs a starter.

Curtis they never keep them healthy thats the point

Samba would have been cheap, he handed in a transfer request and hes decent on the ball, you forget arsenal played with the likes of keown at the back. For a centreback he is technically good enough for them.

Rossi wont be 30million, his get out clause isnt even that high, and lavezzi wouldnt just be a back up, easliy capable of operating out on the right or left too. You need quality cover/rotation and arsenal havent got that. Lavezzi is better than anyuthing arsenal have got to cover RVP, or even play ahead of him and let RVP play in the hole. You keep saying they're expensive, well top players are, thats a fact. We're not saying break the bank, but a player like Lavezzi is affordable to them, and the difference between 2nd place and the title

Gibbs is constantly injured otherwise clichy would have lost his place a long time ago.

 

[curtis290]

Being an Arsenal fan is about patience to me. Were great financially, have a great stadium, play great football and our team is so so close to winning something. I truly believe next year is our year.

Im also starting to understand Wengers policy and it leaves us in a great position in the future. Buying players will hinder the emergence of some of the youth players into the first team. For example if we had bought a goalkeeper where would Szczesny be? If we had bought another defender where would Djourou be?

The current policy of buying talent at 16 for next to nothing and nuturing them to replace the current team is good as in the future we will have a consistant influx of homegrown players into the first team ready made to replace the current starters. The policy was introduced in like 2004 or something and thats why were having a rough patch because our current starters havent matured yet.

For me money doesnt buy sucsess in the long term. I mean look at the current Barcelona team, arguably the best team ever, eight of their players are homegrown.

Great post. Let's not forget how much Barca struggled in recent years. They sucked for a while, and it took them a while to build they have now. The same goes for Arsenal. But unlike Barca, Arsenal never fell out of the top 4. I think in some years time this team will be great, and hopefully Wenger will finally get the credit he deserves.

Curtis they never keep them healthy thats the point

Samba would have been cheap, he handed in a transfer request and hes decent on the ball, you forget arsenal played with the likes of keown at the back. For a centreback he is technically good enough for them.

Rossi wont be 30million, his get out clause isnt even that high, and lavezzi wouldnt just be a back up, easliy capable of operating out on the right or left too. You need quality cover/rotation and arsenal havent got that. Lavezzi is better than anyuthing arsenal have got to cover RVP, or even play ahead of him and let RVP play in the hole. You keep saying they're expensive, well top players are, thats a fact. We're not saying break the bank, but a player like Lavezzi is affordable to them, and the difference between 2nd place and the title

Gibbs is constantly injured otherwise clichy would have lost his place a long time ago.

The thing with Samba though is I don't think you can bring in a CB mid-season, and I think that's what Wenger thought. Also, he may have tried to buy him and maybe Blackburn was being unreasonable about the price. They can't spend too much on a 5th CB, especially when they already have two imposing CB's in Djorou and Vermaelen who are better players. And Squi will be better next season too of course.

I'm not aware of Rossi's release clause, but that's a lot of money to spend on one player, especially if he'll be a back-up. Rossi wouldn't play on the wing I don't think he'd be a striker and would only be there when RVP is out. And knowing Arsenal's luck, if they went out and bought Rossi, RVP would have his first injury free season.

I do agree with you about Lavezzi, if they can get him for cheap they should, but I have a feeling he would be expensive. Also, he wouldn't play much as Arsenal have Nasri, Walcott, and Arshavin on the wings and we can't forget about the development of Vela and JET. He'd be a back-up for sure and he would stunt the development of some of the youngsters. I think getting Lavezzi would be a good idea but we don't know his price, and he may be too expensive for someone who wouldn't be in Arsenal's starting XI. If there is a long-term injury to Nasri, Walcott, RVP, or Arshavin next season and Arsenal is in the title race, they should buy him.

 

[Joss]

Curtis they never keep them healthy thats the point

Samba would have been cheap, he handed in a transfer request and hes decent on the ball, you forget arsenal played with the likes of keown at the back. For a centreback he is technically good enough for them.

Rossi wont be 30million, his get out clause isnt even that high, and lavezzi wouldnt just be a back up, easliy capable of operating out on the right or left too. You need quality cover/rotation and arsenal havent got that. Lavezzi is better than anyuthing arsenal have got to cover RVP, or even play ahead of him and let RVP play in the hole. You keep saying they're expensive, well top players are, thats a fact. We're not saying break the bank, but a player like Lavezzi is affordable to them, and the difference between 2nd place and the title

Gibbs is constantly injured otherwise clichy would have lost his place a long time ago.

RvP doesn't work in the hole. We've tried it..

Keown and co. weren't Wenger's players, though - brilliant defenders etc. but Keown joined 3 years before Wenger took over and started to bring in technical players - Vermaelen, Djourou and Koscielny are good enough for me. Squillaci isn't but I'm not sure Samba would have been the answer nor would he have been greeted especially well by a lot of Arsenal fans considering Blackburn's tactics against us recently have essentially been to put him and Diouf on the GK's toes and stop him getting anywhere near the ball - very Arsenal. :/

 

[Mike.]

Great post. Let's not forget how much Barca struggled in recent years. They sucked for a while, and it took them a while to build they have now. The same goes for Arsenal. But unlike Barca, Arsenal never fell out of the top 4. I think in some years time this team will be great, and hopefully Wenger will finally get the credit he deserves.



The thing with Samba though is I don't think you can bring in a CB mid-season, and I think that's what Wenger thought. Also, he may have tried to buy him and maybe Blackburn was being unreasonable about the price. They can't spend too much on a 5th CB, especially when they already have two imposing CB's in Djorou and Vermaelen who are better players. And Squi will be better next season too of course.

I'm not aware of Rossi's release clause, but that's a lot of money to spend on one player, especially if he'll be a back-up. Rossi wouldn't play on the wing I don't think he'd be a striker and would only be there when RVP is out. And knowing Arsenal's luck, if they went out and bought Rossi, RVP would have his first injury free season.

I do agree with you about Lavezzi, if they can get him for cheap they should, but I have a feeling he would be expensive. Also, he wouldn't play much as Arsenal have Nasri, Walcott, and Arshavin on the wings and we can't forget about the development of Vela and JET. He'd be a back-up for sure and he would stunt the development of some of the youngsters. I think getting Lavezzi would be a good idea but we don't know his price, and he may be too expensive for someone who wouldn't be in Arsenal's starting XI. If there is a long-term injury to Nasri, Walcott, RVP, or Arshavin next season and Arsenal is in the title race, they should buy him.

Your last sentence sums up the problem, by the time that happened it would be too late to get someone like Lavezzi, h is simply a better option than anyone bar RVP, and nasri (creatively, but he is a greater goal threat than him) He wouldnt stunt JET or Vela either, they are still well off. This is the whole thing about quality throughout the side, as we've see this season peel away 2 or 3 players and they have issues

---------- Post added at 11:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 AM ----------

RvP doesn't work in the hole. We've tried it..

Keown and co. weren't Wenger's players, though - brilliant defenders etc. but Keown joined 3 years before Wenger took over and started to bring in technical players - Vermaelen, Djourou and Koscielny are good enough for me. Squillaci isn't but I'm not sure Samba would have been the answer nor would he have been greeted especially well by a lot of Arsenal fans considering Blackburn's tactics against us recently have essentially been to put him and Diouf on the GK's toes and stop him getting anywhere near the ball - very Arsenal. :/

RVP does actually work in the hle, watch his movement he actually spends a lot of time there even deeper than Rooney. And thats just a snobbish answer about Samba since in talking defensively not about blackburn's tactics up front, who says you have to do the same. MY point is you don't need to be hugely technical to fit into the back line

 

[Joss]

Your last sentence sums up the problem, by the time that happened it would be too late to get someone like Lavezzi, h is simply a better option than anyone bar RVP, and nasri (creatively, but he is a greater goal threat than him) He wouldnt stunt JET or Vela either, they are still well off. This is the whole thing about quality throughout the side, as we've see this season peel away 2 or 3 players and they have issues

---------- Post added at 11:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 AM ----------



RVP does actually work in the hle, watch his movement he actually spends a lot of time there even deeper than Rooney. And thats just a snobbish answer about Samba since in talking defensively not about blackburn's tactics up front, who says you have to do the same. MY point is you don't need to be hugely technical to fit into the back line

Ignoring Samba because we clearly aren't going to agree.

Of course I realise RvP drops very deep - but he plays ALONGSIDE Cesc at times; look at most of the IPs on ArsenalReport and the point is that he and Fabregas are in line, but RvP can push on and make runs behind the CB. We've tried starting him in Cesc's position and it simply doesn't work. Also, why waste starting a striker as good as he is in such a deep position? He drops deep to be part of the build up but if he started there he suddenly would have far more responsibilities - and then what are you going to do with Fabregas and Wilshere? The double pivot is exceptional when they're all playing well: (also see http://www.mantralux.com/the-real-arsenal-4-2-3-1/ for discussion on the pivot)

Arsenal 3-0 Wigan: N’Zogbia identified as the main threat | Arsenal Report​

 

[Mike.]

You dont think i watch arsenal? Its another tactical option, for when the current way doesnt work, its not wasting a striker (who is capable at 10) if it makes the team function.

 

[Joss]

You dont think i watch arsenal? Its another tactical option, for when the current way doesnt work, its not wasting a striker (who is capable at 10) if it makes the team function.

I know you watch Arsenal but you're missing the point of my post: RvP doesn't work starting in the hole. Wenger's tried it.

He drops back anyway, but his STARTING position is as a centre-forward, rather than in the hole otherwise we'd be playing 4-6-0 :/

 

[Mike.]

I know you watch Arsenal but you're missing the point of my post: RvP doesn't work starting in the hole. Wenger's tried it.

He drops back anyway, but his STARTING position is as a centre-forward, rather than in the hole otherwise we'd be playing 4-6-0 :/

he drops back to find space to operate, and 10 and with someone leading the line he starts space to operate in ping balls through and wide; or drive and arrive late, which is what he has done when played at 10.

as for 4-6-0: where do you think the false nine comes from? beside if he was the 10 there clearly is anther striker in front of him

 

[Joss]

he drops back to find space to operate, and 10 and with someone leading the line he starts space to operate in ping balls through and wide; or drive and arrive late, which is what he has done when played at 10.

as for 4-6-0: where do you think the false nine comes from? beside if he was the 10 there clearly is anther striker in front of him

Against Partizan (I think) and Wigan in the Carling Cup - RVP starting in the hole simply didn't work. He isn't Bergkamp - he drops back, and Walcott & Nasri move from the wings behind him but he also draws defenders out of position by starting in a higher position, coming deep and then turning his man as he did several times against Blackpool.